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How long are COEs taking to renew these days?

Hello,

Per the California statutes relating to collector COEs, all mention that an applicant should be federally licensed prior to obtaining a COE for a collector. For example, Penal Code 26970, states that "licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto".
Wow. That section has nothing to do with the issuance of the COE. It has to do with the waiver of waiting period for purchase of a firearm. It sets the conditions for the waiver, not the conditions for the issuance of the COE.
Additional requirements require a COE. The statutes relating to COEs are identified in PC 26970(a)(4), PC 26585, PC 27670, PC 27966, PC 31700.

We will be unable to process your application without verification that you have a FFL-03. Please upload your FFL-03 promptly so we can continue with processing your application

If your FFL-03 is in progress with ATF, wait until you've received it to upload it, then re-submit the existing CFARS COE application. The FFL-03 should be uploaded using any available file type.

this is what they sent to me , no matter how much you argue they don't care and keep your coe incomplete
They are grasping at straws to make this work. They cite exemptions which MAY be used when the COE is combined with the FFL-03. But, if that is now a condition of issuance, then everybody obtaining a COE must also have an FFL-03 even if it isn't needed for their job, because they may seek the use of an exemption.

It really would help if Kosta Moras and CRPA locked onto this.
 
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(OP)

I ended up getting it renewed in time. I did send in the redacted 03 when asked for a copy as I know they are not budging this time, and I need the about to have been expired COE to be current in the new year for something. I hope CRPA gets them slapped soon.
 
I’d really like to know their citations, because there are only a couple which might apply (and they don’t).

Here's a few of my replies to them calling them out for their citations. If anyones arguing with them right now, feel free to copy/paste my citation explanations. Obligatory I am not a lawyer, so copy/paste at your own risk haha.

(My first reply to them)

"""

Hello COE Team,

CFARS has notified me that my COE application is incomplete, indicating that I must submit an FFL-03 license or a reason to complete processing. I have applied for COE for FFL-03 as stated in the COE application as the reason for COE. Also, looking at the PC: 27966, which was cited for my application being incomplete, I don’t see any mention of an FFL03 being required for the COE.

Section 27966. Sale, loan, or transfer of firearm to licensed collector; application of section 27545.
If all of the following requirements are satisfied, § 27545 shall not apply to the sale, loan, or transfer of a firearm:
(a) The firearm is not a handgun.
(b) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in § 478.11 of Title 27 of the CFR, or its successor.
(c) The person receiving the firearm has a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to § 26710.
(d) The person receiving the firearm is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued thereto.
(e) Within 30 days of taking possession of the firearm, the person to whom it is transferred shall forward by prepaid mail, or deliver in person to the Department of Justice, a report that includes information concerning the individual taking possession of the firearm, how title was obtained and from whom, and a description of the firearm in question. The report forms that individuals complete pursuant to this section shall be provided to them by the department.
""

(My second reply to them)

"""

Hello,

Looking at the mentioned Penal Codes:

PC 26970:
Section 26970. Sale, delivery, loan, or transfer of firearm that is curio or relic; application of Section 26815.
(a) The waiting period described in § 26815 does not apply to the sale, delivery, loan, or transfer of a firearm if all of the following conditions are satisfied:
(1) The firearm is a curio or relic, as defined in § 478.11 of Title 27 of the CFR, or its successor.
(2) The sale, delivery, loan, or transfer is made by a dealer.
(3) The sale, delivery, loan, or transfer is made to a person who is licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with § 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(4) The licensed collector has a current certificate of eligibility issued by the Department of Justice pursuant to § 26710.
(b) On the date that the sale, delivery, or transfer is made, the dealer delivering the firearm shall transmit to the Department of Justice an electronic or telephonic report of the transaction as is indicated in § 28160 or 28165.

The excerpt that was sent: "licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with Section 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto" is a part of a list of conditions to not apply the waiting period described in PC 26815. I am applying for a certificate of eligibility; I am not looking for an exception for a waiting period described PC 26815. It doesn’t look like PC 26970 (a) or (b) lists any requirements for a COE.

PC 26585:

Section 26585. Delivery of unloaded firearm that is curio or relic by collector; application of Section 26500.
Section 26500 does not apply to the delivery of an unloaded firearm that is a curio or relic, as defined in § 478.11 of Title 27 of the CFR, if the delivery satisfies all of the following conditions:
(a) It is made by a person licensed as a collector pursuant to Chapter 44 (commencing with § 921) of Title 18 of the United States Code and the regulations issued pursuant thereto.
(b) It is made by a person with a current certificate of eligibility issued pursuant to § 26710.
(c) It is made to a dealer.

Looking at PC 26585, this PC discusses delivery of unloaded firearms that is curio or relic and it’s requirements. However, these discuss the delivery of curio and relic firearms, not the COE eligibility requirements.

PC 27966:
I took a look at this Penal Code below, but this pertains an exception to PC 27545 (which is about Sale, loan, or transfer of firearm; completion through licensed dealer).

PC 31700:
This Penal Code discusses exemptions to the Firearm Safety Certificate requirement, which I am not looking to do. The section doesn’t mention anything about COE eligibility either.

I took a look at Penal Code 26710 (Section relating to certificate of eligibility) out of curiosity and I see that it states:
Section 26710. Certificate of eligibility; determination by Department of Justice; administration; fees.
(a) A person may request a certificate of eligibility from the Department of Justice.
(b) The Department of Justice shall examine its records and records available to the department in the National Instant Criminal Background Check System in order to determine if the applicant is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing, receiving, owning, or purchasing a firearm.
(c) The department shall issue a certificate to an applicant if the department's records indicate that the applicant is not a person who is prohibited by state or federal law from possessing firearms.
(d) The department shall adopt regulations to administer the certificate of eligibility program and shall recover the full costs of administering the program by imposing fees assessed to applicants who apply for those certificates.

I don’t see any mention of an FFL03 in the list of requirements to request a COE. If this was a mistake, could you please consider moving forward with my initial COE application?
"""
 
Ive had my 03 for years now but just finally got around to getting my COE. I had the Live Scan done on the 24th and had a COE approved by the 28th. And that was with me causing delay by not uploading my 03 on the application at first try.
 
They processed my renewal within one week; sent out the email asking for 03 number.

They were more strict for providing the ffl 03 number this time. When applying, my application was still pending, I let them know that after receiving the email asking for it, they approved it.

This time, they asked for it, I asked if it was absolutely necessary; they said something along the lines of they have no way of proof that you have one. So, basically they were not going to approve the renewal without it. However, it was possible to ask what penal code requires it but I thought about it; is it worth the fight and really that bad that they have it. So, I just gave it to them.
 
I submitted my renewal request in early October last year and a week later received an email saying that application was incomplete due to missing FFL03 information. I submitted FFL03 info and received approval about one week later.
 
I did check "collector" on the COE form so I wonder if that anything to do with them asking for the 03?
 
I did check "collector" on the COE form so I wonder if that anything to do with them asking for the 03?
Yes, on their end, they see applying for coe as a collector (curio and relics) requires an 03ffl for curio and relics. They want proof that you actually have an 03 ffl.
 
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