Question Glock out of state intrafamilial transfer

[CadeH]

M16 parts kits will defiantly put you into federal constructive possession of a MG. They put the "ALL NFA rules apply" disclaimer for that reason. You are claiming you have a lawful use for those when ordering.

CADOJ's meeting before with Glock and the Gen V did not go well from the emails that were FOIA'd. Not sure if there is anything more recent.

Atlantic Firearms includes the auto sear in the M16A1 parts kits. Its been like this for decades, they aren't restricted parts outaide of a few states (CA). They arent illegal to possess in free states unless you have a lower with the third pin hole drilled out or are intending to drill one out and make a machine gun.

There are no emails regarding how the meeting over Gen V/Gen 6 design changes between the DOJ and Glock went. So far all we have is that the DOJ determined they didn't meet the definition of machinegun convertible on a preliminary evaluation, and then after people milled out slides to facilitate switches being installed on them they wanted an in person meeting to go over the design changes to determine if they are easily convertible by use of hand tools. We don't have any follow up of how that meeting went. If 2AZone is doing intrafamilial Gen 6 Glock transfers and the DOJ is approving them then we can probably assume that the DOJ agreed that needing to mill out the steel denial block from the slide is too difficult to do with hand tools alone. If those DROSes are being denied then the meeting went bad.

 

[chino1966]

someone just try it please lol

 

[BONECUTR]

They arent illegal to possess in free states unless you have a lower with the third pin hole drilled out or are intending to drill one out and make a machine gun.

Yeah that's not how MG's work. The only people who can generally drill out are dealers who are manufacturing MG's. The vast majority need to find something transferrable. So again..... a regular person with a M16 parts kit and who does not already have a NFA registered machinegun is begging to be charged with intent.

If 2AZone is doing intrafamilial Gen 6 Glock transfers and the DOJ is approving them then we can probably assume that the DOJ agreed that needing to mill out the steel denial block from the slide is too difficult to do with hand tools alone. If those DROSes are being denied then the meeting went bad.

The DOJ is not looking at any of these DROS's to see if the firearm is compliant. They put this on the dealer. Just cause a DROS "goes thru" does not mean its a green light for others. Countless firearms have been DROS'd and during a dealer audit they dealer gets cited and reaches out to all those customer to ask them to return said firearms.

 

[Gawernator]

Yeah that's not how MG's work. The only people who can generally drill out are dealers who are manufacturing MG's. The vast majority need to find something transferrable. So again..... a regular person with a M16 parts kit and who does not already have a NFA registered machinegun is begging to be charged with intent.


The DOJ is not looking at any of these DROS's to see if the firearm is compliant. They put this on the dealer. Just cause a DROS "goes thru" does not mean its a green light for others. Countless firearms have been DROS'd and during a dealer audit they dealer gets cited and reaches out to all those customer to ask them to return said firearms.

When would the customer have to return a firearm

Any examples?

 

[BONECUTR]

When would the customer have to return a firearm

Any examples?

"Have too"..... in most cases its worse for the dealer if they don't.

Examples that I know about:
Dealers who sold non CA compliant pistols they "thought" were on the roster like P22's with threaded barrels.
Dealers selling Colt Gold cup National Matches as C&R's when they were not.
Dealers selling Sig GTO's that have lugged/threaded barrels.
Dealers who sold Gen 3 Glocks that were Tan or other colors (because the DROS system let them change the color so they thought it was fine)
Dealers sell off roster to people who are not exempt but have credentials like Federal Flight Deck Officers.

In these cases the shops will typically send out certified letters requesting the customer return the firearm for a full refund or an exchange for other firearms.
I have never heard of anyone having CADOJ show up at their door to retrieve one of the firearms.

 

[Gawernator]

"Have too"..... in most cases its worse for the dealer if they don't.

Examples that I know about:
Dealers who sold non CA compliant pistols they "thought" were on the roster like P22's with threaded barrels.
Dealers selling Colt Gold cup National Matches as C&R's when they were not.
Dealers selling Sig GTO's that have lugged/threaded barrels.
Dealers who sold Gen 3 Glocks that were Tan or other colors (because the DROS system let them change the color so they thought it was fine)
Dealers sell off roster to people who are not exempt but have credentials like Federal Flight Deck Officers.

In these cases the shops will typically send out certified letters requesting the customer return the firearm for a full refund or an exchange for other firearms.
I have never heard of anyone having CADOJ show up at their door to retrieve one of the firearms.

What about the shops that are selling illegally off roster to active duty military?

 

[BONECUTR]

What about the shops that are selling illegally off roster to active duty military?

I can only relay things I have heard. I am not aware of any local stores that sell off roster to military. Generally it normally comes out during an CADOJ audit but also depends on who is auditing and what they may be looking for during that audit.

CADOJ only has a handful of auditors (3-6) for over 8000 CA FFL's..... those are Santa Clause numbers. To audit every FFL they would need to do more than 4 a day per person 365 days a year. Lots of things I'm sure slip thru the cracks.

 

[CadeH]

Yeah that's not how MG's work. The only people who can generally drill out are dealers who are manufacturing MG's. The vast majority need to find something transferrable. So again..... a regular person with a M16 parts kit and who does not already have a NFA registered machinegun is begging to be charged with intent.


The DOJ is not looking at any of these DROS's to see if the firearm is compliant. They put this on the dealer. Just cause a DROS "goes thru" does not mean its a green light for others. Countless firearms have been DROS'd and during a dealer audit they dealer gets cited and reaches out to all those customer to ask them to return said firearms.

You don't know how machine guns work. Auto sears for the M16 are not machine guns and are not restricted parts. AK auto sears are also not restricted. FAL parts kits usually come with auto sears as well. It is only illegal if you drill out that third hole or make statements or plans that indicate you are going to install an auto sear. Owning an AR with a low shelf and also having an M16 LPK in your house is not constructive possession of a machine gun. If that were true then I would know 20+ felons throughout the US. There are also drop in auto sears, which are different things and are registered.

At this point we are just going to have to wait and see what the FOIA from the meeting says. Everything is purely speculation.

 

[BONECUTR]

You don't know how machine guns work. Auto sears for the M16 are not machine guns and are not restricted parts. AK auto sears are also not restricted. FAL parts kits usually come with auto sears as well.

Drop in sears can re transferable and if someone owned one they could buy full auto parts legally. There is a reason every site that sells those parts puts in a NFA warning. Its so when one of those 20+ people you know get arrested they can't blame the store for selling it......doesnt mean its legal.

 

[joefrank64k]

someone just try it please lol

It’s been tried successfully.

No issue for Gen 6 because it’s not ‘readily convertible’ as defined in the PC.

 

[CadeH]

Drop in sears can re transferable and if someone owned one they could buy full auto parts legally. There is a reason every site that sells those parts puts in a NFA warning. Its so when one of those 20+ people you know get arrested they can't blame the store for selling it......doesnt mean its legal.

Those aren't drop in auto sears, those are two separate things. A drop in auto sear is this

They're legally considered machine guns because they can be installed in a semi auto low shelf AR and turn it into full auto without any modification to the firearm or receiver.

This is a non-drop in auto sear: They're legal to possess in free states because they require machining on an AR receiver in order to install. That machining is drilling out the third pin hole on a low shelf lower, or drilling the third pin hole and milling a high shelf into a low shelf. They are legally considered multi-burst trigger activators on their own in California.

They have an NFA warning on the site because modifying a lower and installing one is making an NFA item. The item itself is not an NFA item, or it would say that it is and only ship to SOT or be listed as transferable if Pre-86.