Review KW Defense

[aob701]

This thread is for the general discussion of the gun range Gun range. Please add to the discussion here.

 

[Gryff]

I shot there for the first time yesterday. My niece was in town and asked me to take her shooting. Went to KW Defense because the Linden outdoor range was shut down due to weather.

I seriously don't care for indoor ranges, but I was really impressed with their facility.

They are busy, but they offer online reservations. We were drop-ins at mid-day on a Saturday, so we had a 45 minute wait for a spot. Their "lobby" is rather small, but they do offer a table with chairs and two well-maintained bathrooms.

The staff were friendly and professional. Sadly, I find this to be the exception at most ranges, where they look at you when you walk in like you were the guy that brought their daughter home from prom at 5am.

The shooting space was two separate rooms of six lanes plus what appeared to be a single lane setup for handicapped shooters. The target mechanisms were modern, with touchpads that could take your targets out to pre-set distances, or you could enter in the exact distance you wanted. Max distance was 22 yards. A cool feature that I didn't know about until I was leaving was that they had sequence programs in the touchpad that would run automatically (targets moving to/from certain distances, exposing/turning for pre-set amounts of time). That would add quite a bit of benefit/fun over traditional static line shooting.

They post that rapid-fire is not allowed, but you are allowed to do controlled pairs/triples if you clear with the RSO first. I asked what the difference was, and they said that "rapid fire" meant more of mag-dump style shooting.

The environmental conditions in the shooting area was really good. Not freezing cold. Not too noisy. But it felt like the air was being effectively circulated.

I'm old. I'm cheap. $25 lane rentals with $12 for an extra shooter seems pricey to me, but I gather it's the norm now.

Overall...definite thumbs up. You walk in and think, "Damn, this place is little." But once you get on the range, it's really a nice facility.

 

[2seater]

I like that range the electronics are the latest with many options with the placement of target and drill options on the individual touch screens. The air is is clean I was told the HVAC system cost was $450,000 and a set of filters is $17,000. Lots of safe parking in the back. I have always found the staff the be friendly and they have helped me out dialing in my red dots. Can recommended KW Range and they are located right off the 99 freeway in Stockton.

 

[Bandito510]

Went in today to meet with a fellow member to do a PPT. Prior to our arrival I tried to call four times to ask if we needed a appointment. Not one call was answered. I proceeded to check their website and no where on there does it say you need an appointment. We decided to meet there at 12:30 since no one answered the phone and the website did not say appointment required. . As we walk in to a empty shop we are greeted and ask how he can help us. We proceed to let him know that we where their to do a PPT. He then proceed to ask if we had an appointment. I told him no that we were not aware we needed an appointment. Stated to him i tried to call you guys with no answer 4 times, and your website does not say appointment only. He then proceeds to tell us, yea we only do PPT on the weekdays and that he could not help us. I asked if he could help us out since i drove from the bay area and was trying to help out the purchaser. Continued to say no, that he had the time to do it but he was not interested in doing it because he does not make any money on it and that is why he does not answer the phone.

After a quick yelp check it seems like people are constantly having trouble with them to do PPTs. One yelp review states they were told they only PPT on Saturdays. Weird since today is Saturday 01/03/26 and we were turned away. Non the less if you do not want to do a service then advertise NO PPT or PPT by appointment only and save everyone the hassle.

 

[Nacho_Libre]

Kw Defense screwed me over over 3 times and I know that by my review they will know who I am but i dont care. I think its important to let people know how they treat customers. If u want to get an idea of their "service" u can just go look at their reviews on Google from the past 5 to 10 yrs and make up ur own mind before even reading my review.

Here goes...

When I moved to Stockton I went to kw to shoot my Ar15. One of my sights fell off and I didn't know til I got there. The range demanded I buy an airsoft red dot to shoot or gtfo. They knew I was new to shooting, inexperienced and ignorant about red dots and that I paid with a credit card so they tried to take advantage and sell me an airsoft red dot for $40 (that's not including tax or the cost to shoot/range fee etc etc)! I said no and was told to basically leave, this is after having paid all the fees and unpacking everything.

Went back to Kw bc I wanted to give them another chance. While checking into the range one of their employees bullied me about my range bag, I guess they didn't like the size or color, it was disrespectful but I ignored it. When the employee noticed I heard they said "Oh I'm not making fun of you though!" As if that was a completely normal thing to say, the person was like 50 yrs old/white female and im Hispanic so u can see where this might be going...it seemed racially motivated.

3rd event (and the last one!) Was before the 11% increase went into effect. I arrive over an hour before closing. I was 4th in line. They purposely skipped me and served everyone but me. All I wanted was to buy a lower for the 11% tax went into effect. 5 minutes before closing they inform me that they can't serve me bc background would take 10 minutes and they quote "don't want to pay employees overtime".

Never went back. It was clear they didn't want my business. And no I didn't do anything wrong. Sometimes people have other motivations for not wanting to serve you and instead of being upfront they just waste ur time, insult you, and try to rip you off as much as they can. That's just how it is sometimes.

There were other encounters too that seemed racist or racially motivated.
During one of those others, I parked out front bc I wasn't sure If they were open (at the range). Someone came out and looked at me and my car suspiciously. I GOT OUT bc i could sense they were racially profiling me, ans asked if the range was open. They said that the range was closed that day (google said it was open though). Howeve I didn't appreciate them acting like im a thief or dangerous just because im not white. I was dressed normally, i buy most my clothes at Target so its not as if i was dressed like a thug. The event was embarassing bc i brough someone with me whos new to guns and i wanted to show them the comminity is inclusive and inviting but KW showed the opposite with their behavior.

Aside from all the above, KW in general is not as good as other places and leaves a lot to be desired, from selection to SERVICE. They have subpar employees and play favorites with local pd way too much to be helpful to the general public.

If u want a shop that ignores u while they service cops then this is ur place! Or a shop that assumes that all Hispanic people are thives and white people are saviors then this is ur place. Or if u want a shop that takes advantage of new shooters then this is ur place.

 

[aob701]

Went in today to meet with a fellow member to do a PPT. Prior to our arrival I tried to call four times to ask if we needed a appointment. Not one call was answered. I proceeded to check their website and no where on there does it say you need an appointment. We decided to meet there at 12:30 since no one answered the phone and the website did not say appointment required. . As we walk in to a empty shop we are greeted and ask how he can help us. We proceed to let him know that we where their to do a PPT. He then proceed to ask if we had an appointment. I told him no that we were not aware we needed an appointment. Stated to him i tried to call you guys with no answer 4 times, and your website does not say appointment only. He then proceeds to tell us, yea we only do PPT on the weekdays and that he could not help us. I asked if he could help us out since i drove from the bay area and was trying to help out the purchaser. Continued to say no, that he had the time to do it but he was not interested in doing it because he does not make any money on it and that is why he does not answer the phone.

After a quick yelp check it seems like people are constantly having trouble with them to do PPTs. One yelp review states they were told they only PPT on Saturdays. Weird since today is Saturday 01/03/26 and we were turned away. Non the less if you do not want to do a service then advertise NO PPT or PPT by appointment only and save everyone the hassle.

They used to be pretty good about PPT’s, I started going there in 2021/2022 and they weren’t as busy before and would do PPT’s everyday of the week but recently they’ve been more picky on them since they lose money doing them apparently. Turners in Stockton has been my go to since they require appointments usually but every time I call they’ve had same day appointments but will tell you what time to go that works for them.

 

[Gryff]

Went in today to meet with a fellow member to do a PPT. Prior to our arrival I tried to call four times to ask if we needed a appointment. Not one call was answered. I proceeded to check their website and no where on there does it say you need an appointment. We decided to meet there at 12:30 since no one answered the phone and the website did not say appointment required. . As we walk in to a empty shop we are greeted and ask how he can help us. We proceed to let him know that we where their to do a PPT. He then proceed to ask if we had an appointment. I told him no that we were not aware we needed an appointment. Stated to him i tried to call you guys with no answer 4 times, and your website does not say appointment only. He then proceeds to tell us, yea we only do PPT on the weekdays and that he could not help us. I asked if he could help us out since i drove from the bay area and was trying to help out the purchaser. Continued to say no, that he had the time to do it but he was not interested in doing it because he does not make any money on it and that is why he does not answer the phone.

After a quick yelp check it seems like people are constantly having trouble with them to do PPTs. One yelp review states they were told they only PPT on Saturdays. Weird since today is Saturday 01/03/26 and we were turned away. Non the less if you do not want to do a service then advertise NO PPT or PPT by appointment only and save everyone the hassle.

Yeah, if you are going to limit the times that you will provide a legally required service, you need to post those time limits. That's unfortunate that they choose not to.

 

[Nacho_Libre]

Yeah, if you are going to limit the times that you will provide a legally required service, you need to post those time limits. That's unfortunate that they choose not to.

This. They weren't great about updating their Google hours either or just letting customers know when they aren't open. I think one of the biggest pet peeves any customer has is a business that doesn't update times.

Had this happen at an unrelated store last week. Google showed they were open 8am to 6pm. Got there, closed an hour early and had a sign on the door with "updated" hours. Never been there but their unwillingness to take 60 seconds to correct their open times on Google isn't a good look.

 

[Nacho_Libre]

Went in today to meet with a fellow member to do a PPT. Prior to our arrival I tried to call four times to ask if we needed a appointment. Not one call was answered. I proceeded to check their website and no where on there does it say you need an appointment. We decided to meet there at 12:30 since no one answered the phone and the website did not say appointment required. . As we walk in to a empty shop we are greeted and ask how he can help us. We proceed to let him know that we where their to do a PPT. He then proceed to ask if we had an appointment. I told him no that we were not aware we needed an appointment. Stated to him i tried to call you guys with no answer 4 times, and your website does not say appointment only. He then proceeds to tell us, yea we only do PPT on the weekdays and that he could not help us. I asked if he could help us out since i drove from the bay area and was trying to help out the purchaser. Continued to say no, that he had the time to do it but he was not interested in doing it because he does not make any money on it and that is why he does not answer the phone.

After a quick yelp check it seems like people are constantly having trouble with them to do PPTs. One yelp review states they were told they only PPT on Saturdays. Weird since today is Saturday 01/03/26 and we were turned away. Non the less if you do not want to do a service then advertise NO PPT or PPT by appointment only and save everyone the hassle.

Thanks for confirming for me their tactic... they have been making up bs to turn people away this whole time. Ur confirming that their screwing me over on stuff at the range has been intentional. Thanks. Perhaps I should file a suit.

 

[2seater]

I have done a couple PPT's at KW that has gone well ...My experience.. No appointment required M-Th 10am-4pm outside of that an appointment is required. I always call to check if it's a good day with staffing. I always put some dollars in the tip jar for their help.

 

[Bandito510]

What baffled me is that he straight up admitted to not answering the phone because he didn’t want to do any PPT. Also the fact that he openly said yeah I have time but I don’t make any money on it so I don’t want to do it. Just seems very un professional to me. I have dealt with a few FFL and by far the worst experience I had.

 

[Bandito510]

I have done a couple PPT's at KW that has gone well ...My experience.. No appointment required M-Th 10am-4pm outside of that an appointment is required. I always call to check if it's a good day with staffing. I always put some dollars in the tip jar for their help.

I guess you were one of the chosen ones. I called another buddy of mine and asked him about his experience and he said he was also turned away with an empty store and employees just standing there. There range seems pretty cool but I will not be returning to give them my business

 

[Nacho_Libre]

I guess you were one of the chosen ones. I called another buddy of mine and asked him about his experience and he said he was also turned away with an empty store and employees just standing there. There range seems pretty cool but I will not be returning to give them my business

The employees are definitely the problem as well as the owner. All they have to do is hire new employees and have the owner make less of an appearance (since he's got no customer service skills)skulls. Imo that money they invested in that billboard would be better spent on building good reputation with their existing and any new customers.

For example the whole "won't do PPTs" bc they make no money on them. Hire a person who will do them or do them urself, ur the owner and likely just sitting around sniffing ur own a$$. But some people just don't care if their business does well or not I guess.

This is all stuff that can be easily remedied with a little bit of simple common sense and good pr.

I'm willing to bet the problem here is the same one u see on Hells Kitchen... friends and family working at the place and boss treating the business like a hangout spot instead of work. Its an issue i often see in pr and That's the fastest way to kill a business.

and what im saying is all just simple common sense stuff that anyone who's not in pr would know but some people dont have common sense.

 

[Nacho_Libre]

I have done a couple PPT's at KW that has gone well ...My experience.. No appointment required M-Th 10am-4pm outside of that an appointment is required. I always call to check if it's a good day with staffing. I always put some dollars in the tip jar for their help.

U should never have to tip anyone for doing a PPT. Are you kidding me? This isn't a bar or a restaurant.

 

[Nacho_Libre]

I guess you were one of the chosen ones. I called another buddy of mine and asked him about his experience and he said he was also turned away with an empty store and employees just standing there. There range seems pretty cool but I will not be returning to give them my business

Interesting pattern

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

Went in today to meet with a fellow member to do a PPT. Prior to our arrival I tried to call four times to ask if we needed a appointment. Not one call was answered. I proceeded to check their website and no where on there does it say you need an appointment. We decided to meet there at 12:30 since no one answered the phone and the website did not say appointment required. . As we walk in to a empty shop we are greeted and ask how he can help us. We proceed to let him know that we where their to do a PPT. He then proceed to ask if we had an appointment. I told him no that we were not aware we needed an appointment. Stated to him i tried to call you guys with no answer 4 times, and your website does not say appointment only. He then proceeds to tell us, yea we only do PPT on the weekdays and that he could not help us. I asked if he could help us out since i drove from the bay area and was trying to help out the purchaser. Continued to say no, that he had the time to do it but he was not interested in doing it because he does not make any money on it and that is why he does not answer the phone.

After a quick yelp check it seems like people are constantly having trouble with them to do PPTs. One yelp review states they were told they only PPT on Saturdays. Weird since today is Saturday 01/03/26 and we were turned away. Non the less if you do not want to do a service then advertise NO PPT or PPT by appointment only and save everyone the hassle.

I’ve done a ppt before there around late 2023; for a calguns meet. We didn’t need appointments then; however we did go during a weekday, and I did call and speak with them before going. I needed to make sure they were willing to dros it first. I remember their website back then said they welcome the calguns community; that was cool.

I always call shops before going to do ppt. I would have kept calling even if they don’t pick up after 4 attempts. Keep calling, they don’t know you were calling for a ppt, maybe it was something else you were interested in.

Ppt process, no hassle. I actually ended up coming back two days later and bought two guns from them.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

Sounds like maybe they are saying they lose money because when people are doing ppt, the buyer or seller isn’t buying anything as ppt etiquette. 10 measly dollars as a ppt fee…..

I was always taught to buy something, even if you don’t need ammo, buy something such as cleaning supplies or some accessories.

 

[Nick Memphis]

Went in today to meet with a fellow member to do a PPT. Prior to our arrival I tried to call four times to ask if we needed a appointment. Not one call was answered. I proceeded to check their website and no where on there does it say you need an appointment. We decided to meet there at 12:30 since no one answered the phone and the website did not say appointment required. . As we walk in to a empty shop we are greeted and ask how he can help us. We proceed to let him know that we where their to do a PPT. He then proceed to ask if we had an appointment. I told him no that we were not aware we needed an appointment. Stated to him i tried to call you guys with no answer 4 times, and your website does not say appointment only. He then proceeds to tell us, yea we only do PPT on the weekdays and that he could not help us. I asked if he could help us out since i drove from the bay area and was trying to help out the purchaser. Continued to say no, that he had the time to do it but he was not interested in doing it because he does not make any money on it and that is why he does not answer the phone.

After a quick yelp check it seems like people are constantly having trouble with them to do PPTs. One yelp review states they were told they only PPT on Saturdays. Weird since today is Saturday 01/03/26 and we were turned away. Non the less if you do not want to do a service then advertise NO PPT or PPT by appointment only and save everyone the hassle.

same (bad) experience. Buyer called to check, everything ok'd, but when we turned up were were told no PPTs on a Saturday. Buyer challenged them as he had the name of the person who told him to come on by and they just said they misspoke - no goodwill PPT offer, just come back during the week. Too late for you now, but we drove 10 mins to Integrity Arms in Lodi and did the PPT there quickly and cleanly.

 

[Nick Memphis]

I’ve done a ppt before there around late 2023; for a calguns meet. We didn’t need appointments then; however we did go during a weekday, and I did call and speak with them before going. I needed to make sure they were willing to dros it first. I remember their website back then said they welcome the calguns community; that was cool.

I always call shops before going to do ppt. I would have kept calling even if they don’t pick up after 4 attempts. Keep calling, they don’t know you were calling for a ppt, maybe it was something else you were interested in.

Ppt process, no hassle. I actually ended up coming back two days later and bought two guns from them.

Agreed. had a smooth PPT process there a few years ago before they opened the range - maybe its not the cash cow they hoped for and shirk PPT no profit work on account?