Sig Sauer P320 M18

[Tere_Hanges]

The concern is that the striker might slip off the sear due to design, defects, wear or use of aftermarket parts. A manual safety does not address this concern because the manual safety on a P320 simply blocks the trigger from moving. It doesnt block the sear from movement. So while a manual safety might prevent a negligent discharge if the trigger is unintentionally pressed, it wont prevent any issue with the striker slipping off the sear as has been alleged.

 

[kmoros]

It's the gun I am best with (which is frustrating). With the wilson combat grip and a light on it, it's such a great gun to shoot. If the alleged issues are ever resolved, I will promote it from strictly range toy to nightstand gun.

 

[bazooka]

Here's what has been proven regarding the P320's striker safety...

• The Striker Safety needs to move only 0.036" to disengage from the striker (brand new P320).
• That correlates to a trigger pull of only 0.09" to fully disengage striker safety (brand new P320).
• The trigger breaks and the sear releases the striker at 0.201" (brand new P320).
• That means the additional trigger pull past striker safety disengagement needed to have the sear release the striker is 0.11" (brand new P320).

That means it's certainly possible that if the the trigger is barely moved 0.09" or perhaps even less if striker safety and/or the striker is broken in/worn, and/or the slide to FCU/Grip fit is loose, and then if the slide is torqued vs the FCU/Grip in a holster like it appears is happening with many of the LEO UD's, that ultimately the striker could be released ("wiggle fire").

The P320's striker safety is rather unique design, and nowhere near as robust as the much more commonly used vertical plunger designs (P365, Kahr, Glock, CZ and many others etc), which also includes the fact that the FBI Ballistics Lab reported the striker safety's torsion spring is only captured on one leg which means means it's feasible the P320's striker safety spring could fail to control the striker safety without breaking if the non-captured spring leg were to move and there by lose tension). The P320's optional manual safety is also inferior in that it only blocks the trigger bar, and not the sear.

I'm not a Sig hater seeing I love my P365 with Spectre Comp Slide which has a relatively tight slide to FCU/grip fit and it will simply not "wiggle fire" at any trigger pull prior to the break.

So, IMO the P320's striker safety timing is possibly too aggressive, and when combined with MIM parts tolerance stacking and a possible lack of effective MIM parts QA in some cases, and that's in addition to some sloppy slide to FCU/grip tolerances, then there's currently a cause for concern in an admittedly small percentage of the many P320's/M18's/M17's produced (while of course noting that some percentage of the UD's were operator or armorer error etc (10mm parts in 9mm guns etc).

The video is just presenting the numbers, not offering any opinion on whether the numbers are good or bad. At 44% of the total trigger travel until firing, the P320's striker safety is disabled. Are you suggesting that the striker safety on a P365 is disabled at a higher percentage of travel?

The video makes the point that the striker safety is not designed to serve any function once one starts pulling the trigger. It's designed to cater for something other than a trigger pull causing sear disengagement. I've not read anything that suggests the trigger can travel at all if the P320's manual thumb safety is engaged. That would be a major development and would impact the OP's M18.

You also mentioned the FBI report. Here's what's written in it:

It was also observed that the striker safety lock spring was only captured at the top of the striker housing. A pre-upgrade Sig Sauer P320 striker safety lock was reviewed for comparison, and it was observed that both the top and bottom of the striker safety lock spring was captured. If the striker safety lock spring leg lost engagement with the top of the striker safety lock, the lock would no longer be spring loaded and could possibly seize or "free-float" rendering the striker safety lock inoperable.

The FBI report was speculating (as was their job); they never saw evidence of that problem. I would take a look at this video by Grayguns.

He concluded that there is no way for this to happen unless you cut a hole in the side to observe the spring.

The Sig Armorer has a new video that's two weeks old. It's hard to rule out bias since "Sig" is in his brand name. He is very annoyed in this video and it makes it a bit hard for me to watch. But, there is something very instructive presented starting at 14:00 regarding the trigger pull. His basic conclusion is that the only thing wrong with the gun is that the trigger is too easy to pull and people are screwing up. So Sig has started to offer a heavier trigger. I wouldn't want it since I use my safety.

P.S. I want to correct my earlier post where I said the Sig Armorer had a video about the dangers of taking up the pre-travel with a custom trigger. The video was actually from the Sig Mechanic, that's same guy that did the video you posted.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

I really like them tbh, but until everything is settled and out in the open about possible defects, fixes, etc I will not own one.

I am here to say that I said F’ it and I’ll decide for myself. I’ve been waiting a while now. Purchased an Sig P320 M18 and converted it to a M18 Spec with Romeo M17 Red Dot.

USGI M18 Slide, New standard Sear Trigger pack (non-CA BS extra hole for mag disconnect)

Going to shoot the crap out of this the next year before I can say I trust it.

 

[Custodian]

Everyone just reads the issues, dont be like Everyone else, TEST IT YOURSELF. Do the tests that cause the issues rather than hope and see if they occur during usage. I had a buddy do the manipulation of the slide and trigger at the store and I just saw alot of nervous faces behind the counter as I smiled away. Ymmv

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

Everyone just reads the issues, dont be like Everyone else, TEST IT YOURSELF. Do the tests that cause the issues rather than hope and see if they occur during usage. I had a buddy do the manipulation of the slide and trigger at the store and I just saw alot of nervous faces behind the counter as I smiled away. Ymmv

I remember when Glocks were “Kaboom” machines and were going off without the trigger being pulled. (The ND were training and holster issues) but I had to carry a Glock for a number of years as standard issue when that crap was going on lol.

 

[M_N04H]

Yea I came close to getting the X5 Legion. Good looking piece.

 

[weaverftw]

The USAA guard appears to be fiddling with the gun in its holster when it goes off (his right arm/elbow is behind his body to the right on camera but unfortunately you can’t see what he’s doing as his body blocks his hand/gun), the guy in the USPSA video is also actively holstering, and other videos I’ve seen also show someone holstering or fishing with the gun in some way. Combined with the fact that people love to bubba their guns and so anything to replicate a 1lb 1911 trigger, who knows what these guys did to the guns, what was replaced, what was reassembled incorrectly, etc… I think it’s totally possible it’s a nothing burger and all instances have been NDs due to user error. Agree with the comments about people refusing to take responsibility for their mistakes and influencers taking advantage for clicks.

BUT given the unique design features, a handful of reasonable rationales as to what might be happening, tolerance stacking with modular mim parts, etc etc it’s enough for me to forego the P320 and get something else instead. I’ll still soy them and wouldn’t be anxious with someone using one near me (especially someone with common sense who would have gone through the safety checks on their particular example), but not worth the small % risk.

Sucks for Sig because they’re in a lose/lose situation; if it’s a real problem their denials are a big PR nightmare and the lawsuits might bankrupt them, but even if it’s all BS it still has hurt their image so much I don’t know if they can recover…

 

[tango87]

I know how Police are, well most, their lazy and don’t bother to clean their weapons or replace holsters when they get worn or don’t know how to properly use the level of holster they have. I had one Officer who thought it was a good idea to put his S&W 5909 I believe it was in his dishwasher to clean it. I have a M-17 one of the first ( only 4 digit serial numbers) with over 15,000 rounds through it no problems. P320 probably 5,000 rounds no problems. All the videos I have seen are the person’s fault or putting things behind the trigger to make it fire. We had over 100 .40 cal Glocks that the barrels cracked, slides cracked and some of the slides almost blew off the back and Glock’s excuse was it was a hot round and they didn’t expect Law Enforcement to fire that many rounds well…I was also SWAT. Had a Aug brand new failed first 30 round mag. All are subject to failure… Had to pick up a Russian AK47 once, sort of a just fire and retreat situation, and it caught on fire lol wasn’t funny at the time but I just let it cook off the rounds and put sand on it and then another mag.