2K11, P211, or Stacatto HD P4

[bcj68]

Has anyone shot all three of these?

I would like to get a 2011 for carry or even competition. I'm trying to find if anyone has shot all three and can give us some pro's and cons for each. The main reasonm I'm, even considering the stacatto is I have a bunch of standard capacity G17 mags from my old LE days (retired now...). I do like that the P211 is a lot cheaper, and uses P320 mags.

Anyone have any insight to lend? Also, any picture comparisons would be great.

Unless anyone has any insight of other 2011's coming to California (Prodigy...I'm looking at you...)

 

[aardvark9]

Has anyone shot all three of these?

I would like to get a 2011 for carry or even competition. I'm trying to find if anyone has shot all three and can give us some pro's and cons for each. The main reasonm I'm, even considering the stacatto is I have a bunch of standard capacity G17 mags from my old LE days (retired now...). I do like that the P211 is a lot cheaper, and uses P320 mags.

Anyone have any insight to lend? Also, any picture comparisons would be great.

Unless anyone has any insight of other 2011's coming to California (Prodigy...I'm looking at you...)

Last weekend I was in Oregon at a fantastic range and had the opportunity to run several hundred rounds through the P211 GTO, Kimber 2k11 5" non-comp'd, a Platypus 5" non-comp'd, DWX full size, and Shadow 2 Orange. These were all non-CA guns so YMMV with CA hardware. The P211 is heavy, similar to the Shadow 2 and DWX. All were stock other than optics on everything. The Kimber is really nicely made, right there with the CZ. I personally preferred the grip dimensions on the P211 over the Kimber but tactile sensations on the Kimber were a little nicer to both my buddy and me. Trigger was a little lighter and crisper on the Kimber and racking the slide was smoother. Kimber really has done a nice job on it. The P211 has a great co-witness and is readily my favorite Sig. Both guns are better than either my buddy or I are as shooters.

My friend was torn between the Kimber and the Shadow 2. I preferred the Shadow 2 and tied the P211 & Kimber right behind it and the Platypus was pretty close too. Deciding between Sig and Kimber, I'd definitely try to put hands on them side by side to make a call. For me, it was about the grip and I personally prefer heavy stuff. Using P320 mags is a bonus IMO.

 

[RustVendor]

The staccato is the only one that would be practical to carry at 32 oz but I would definitely prefer to just carry a 600 dollar polymer gun that weighs 8-10oz less. 1 gun to do it all doesn't really work because they are all different things. A carry gun you want to keep fresh and not put a lot of round on. A competition gun you will put a lot of rounds on and you want it conducive to competition, not being as light and compact as possible. The thing is that what you enjoy shooting is 100% personal preference, some people want the gun super heavy and to feel no recoil, other people like it to be lighter but easier to move around and shoot dynamically with. I would get more experience with shooting and competing with cheaper guns because no one can answer for you what you will ultimately like to shoot. A big thing you learn when you start shooting doubles for competition is tat its ok for the dot to move and to feel recoil, it's really about how you can control it which is a combination of a lot of things including how the grip fits you, how you grip, how you shoot etc. A lot of people like PDPs for instance even though they have a lot of dot bounce, the dot returns well due to the grip. Other peoples advice is arbitrary it's all gonna be personal preference but it's good to just go get some competition experience so you can get on that path.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

There might not be that many people here who've shot all 3 considering the P211 and 2K11 CA's are just getting out of jail for most folks this week or next - or unless they got luck at the R66 range expo. I've shot the HD P4 and held the both the 2K11 and P211. I prefer the [heavier] weight and ergos of the P211.

Staccato HD P4 will probably become my carry (size) pistol:

I previously owned the P4 HD but sold it because it's a REALLY nice carry pistol but my IA didn't allow 2011's. It isn't what's typically be considered a "competition" gun by most standards. However, if you prefer to compete close to the manner in which you carry you can totally compete from concealed in USPSA, IDAP, GPA at the very least. And the fact that it takes Glock mags

2K11 has A LOT of great reviews from the competition world:

• it's likely going to have more compatibility with standard 2011 parts
• some folks are complaining about the price but it's really not that much more expensive than the P211
• I still might get one but I already have a mid-market 2011 (Prodigy, heavily upgraded) that takes 2011 mags
• My ONLY gripe is that it doesn't take Glock (or other standard) mags

Sig seems to positioning the P211 as adaptable to both the carry/duty and competition contexts:

• takes standard (P320) mags
• you can actually swap the uppers (without additional fitting) which
  • for example, you could buy the GT4 to carry. When Sig releases standalone uppers for the GT5, you can swap back and forth for a full-size competition (or carry) gun
  • right now, only the GTO slide is available. @DesertDepotArms has some (along with both the GT4 and GT5) and can get you a CA compliant slide to swap on to a GT4 if you go that route
• most of the hate for the P211 is from Sig haters. Otherwise, it's just coming down to preference
• I think they're also releasing one with a polymer grip as well

(pic from @DesertDepotArms swapping the 5" GTO slide onto the GT4 frame)

Post in thread 'Sig Sauer p211 GTO slides now in stock $849.99'

Sep 17, 2026

GTO slide fits and functions on the GT4 frame

• DesertDepotArms

The Prodigy is a great gun if you want to upgrade/tinker and/or learn about the 1911 platform. It has a low entry and A LOT of aftermarket support. If it's released in CA I'll certainly by another.

My current opinion is that any new mid-market 2011's should take standard mags, Glock or otherwise.

 

[Dooder]

I have handled all three a lot and none of them are worth buying IMO, and for sure not worth the cost they're going for. Especially the 2k11, thing is $2800 which means otd is around $3500, no effing way.

Ok so here's the skinny, the 211 and HD are not 2011's and the 2k11 IS a 2011. Understanding that it will clear up the confusion with support, parts, and choosing one. So all three are different guns and actually should not be compared to each other but rather looking at them as three different double stack 1911's.

The 2k11 is a true 2011 which means you have the plethora of parts to do whatever bubbaness you want to it. 2011 mags are everywhere. Everyone supports a 2011 because it's 1911 based. The fancy $2800 2k11 doesn't shoot like a 5" gun, the build quality is not what a $2800 gun should be and for sure not $3500 when all said and done. A better option will be to find a P on here for $2800 and go with that. FOR being a lighter and smaller gun it actually manages recoil better meaning it shoots softer, flatter, and is much better built. Being series 70 and an external extractor are very cool features but don't warrant the price. There are far more race guns out there running internal extractors that are pinnacles.

The 211 and HD are hacks that have a different agenda. The 211 is series 80 and gives it that three stage mushy trigger and it takes 320 mags. That's it, it is what it is. If you want that then that's your only choice. A few different parts inside, but it has it's share of proprietary parts. Limited third party parts and support.

The HD suffers the same features as the 211. Proprietary parts, limited third party parts and support. But it takes Glock mags and if that's what you want then that's the only choice you have.

 

[RustVendor]

I have handled all three a lot and none of them are worth buying IMO, and for sure not worth the cost they're going for. Especially the 2k11, thing is $2800 which means otd is around $3500, no effing way.

Ok so here's the skinny, the 211 and HD are not 2011's and the 2k11 IS a 2011. Understanding that it will clear up the confusion with support, parts, and choosing one. So all three are different guns and actually should not be compared to each other but rather looking at them as three different double stack 1911's.

The 2k11 is a true 2011 which means you have the plethora of parts to do whatever bubbaness you want to it. 2011 mags are everywhere. Everyone supports a 2011 because it's 1911 based. The fancy $2800 2k11 doesn't shoot like a 5" gun, the build quality is not what a $2800 gun should be and for sure not $3500 when all said and done. A better option will be to find a P on here for $2800 and go with that. Being a lighter and smaller gun it actually manages recoil better meaning it shoots softer, flatter, and is much better built. Being series 70 and an external extractor are very cool features but don't warrant the price. There are far more race guns out there running internal extractors that are pinnacles.

The 211 and HD are hacks that have a different agenda. The 211 is series 80 and gives it that three stage mushy trigger and it takes 320 mags. That's it, it is what it is. If you want that then that's your only choice. A few different parts inside, but it has it's share of proprietary parts. Limited third party parts and support.

The HD suffers the same features as the 211. Proprietary parts, limited third party parts and support. But it takes Glock mags and if that's what you want then that's the only choice you have.

a lot of what you are saying here is inaccurate and questionable but the biggest is saying that a lighter smaller gun manages recoil better and shoots softer and flatter. wtf are you talking about

outside of the proprietary parts analysis almost everything you are saying is wrong and I don't think you know what you are talking about, including being able to find an off roster Staccato P for the same price as an on roster 2k11.

 

[Dooder]

a lot of what you are saying here is inaccurate and questionable but the biggest is saying that a lighter smaller gun manages recoil better and shoots softer and flatter. wtf are you talking about

outside of the proprietary parts analysis almost everything you are saying is wrong and I don't think you know what you are talking about, including being able to find an off roster Staccato P for the same price as an on roster 2k11.

Fair, I should restate what I meant. I'm saying that the P is lighter and shorter BUT it handles recoil better. It's not about just overall weight, it's about where the weight is. The 2k11 doesn't have a bull barrel, so the weight is in the ass of the gun, which makes the muzzle rise more. The P is more biased up front. That's not subjective, that is objective.

You may feel one way or the other, and that's going to differ with everyone. Everyone likes this something and not another. I've had people tell me 211 recoils more than their 2.0, how that happens I have no idea, but it's relevant to them so that's their story.

There are multiple P's in the marketplace right now ranging from 3k - 3500. Anything less than $3500 is cheaper than the 2k11. If you need the equation $2800 + tax + tax + dros = $3450+ (depending on your local tax rate)

What else is "wrong"?
2k11 is a 2011 - true
2k11 is series 70 - true
2k11 thin barrel - true
2k11 2011/1911 parts - true
Trademark Kimber slide rattle develops in 500rnds - true

211 & HD has proprietary parts - true
211 & HD heavy barrels - true
not as many parts available - true

There are five P's in the marketplace right now between $3k - $3500 TRUE

 

[john_marsten_1873]

Fair, I should restate what I meant. I'm saying that the P is lighter and shorter BUT it handles recoil better. It's not about just overall weight, it's about where the weight is. The 2k11 doesn't have a bull barrel, so the weight is in the ass of the gun, which makes the muzzle rise more. The P is more biased up front. That's not subjective, that is objective.

You may feel one way or the other, and that's going to differ with everyone. Everyone likes this something and not another. I've had people tell me 211 recoils more than their 2.0, how that happens I have no idea, but it's relevant to them so that's their story.

There are multiple P's in the marketplace right now ranging from 3k - 3500. Anything less than $3500 is cheaper than the 2k11. If you need the equation $2800 + tax + tax + dros = $3450+ depending on your local tax rate.

I actually mostly agree with your assessments. I've yet to shoot the P211 or 2K11 but I do like the HD P4 as a carry DS 1911.

And disregarding the semantics, for mid-market 2011's I'll be hard pressed to buy anything else that doesn't take standard mags. For high-end? Sure!

However, I think most folks are trying to get something more like Staccato XC (with or without sight block) rather than P platform out of the P211 and 2K11.

 

[RustVendor]

Fair, I should restate what I meant. I'm saying that the P is lighter and shorter BUT it handles recoil better. It's not about just overall weight, it's about where the weight is. The 2k11 doesn't have a bull barrel, so the weight is in the ass of the gun, which makes the muzzle rise more. The P is more biased up front. That's not subjective, that is objective.

You may feel one way or the other, and that's going to differ with everyone. Everyone likes this something and not another. I've had people tell me 211 recoils more than their 2.0, how that happens I have no idea, but it's relevant to them so that's their story.

There are multiple P's in the marketplace right now ranging from 3k - 3500. Anything less than $3500 is cheaper than the 2k11. If you need the equation $2800 + tax + tax + dros = $3450+ (depending on your local tax rate)

What else is "wrong"?
2k11 is a 2011 - true
2k11 is series 70 - true
2k11 thin barrel - true
2k11 2011/1911 parts - true
Trademark Kimber slide rattle develops in 500rnds - true

211 & HD has proprietary parts - true
211 & HD heavy barrels - true
not as many parts available - true

There are five P's in the marketplace right now between $3k - $3500 TRUE

A kimber 2k11 literally does have a bull barrel its only the cheap one the warrior that has a bushing barrel. The 5" kimber has a dust cover the same length as the 4.4 p but has .6 more inches so how is there more weight on the print of the P? There's more weight in the kimber and you can see that because even the polymer grip kimbers are like 4-5 oz heavier than a P. even the polymer gripped 4.25 length slide is 2 oz heavier than the P. the muzzle does not rose more than the p I promise you.

 

[RustVendor]

I actually mostly agree with your assessments. I've yet to shoot the P211 or 2K11 but I do like the HD P4 as a carry DS 1911.

And disregarding the semantics, for mid-market 2011's I'll be hard pressed to buy anything else that doesn't take standard mags. For high-end? Sure!

However, I think most folks are trying to get something more like Staccato XC (with or without sight block) rather than P platform out of the P211 and 2K11.

I'm not the biggest fan of 2011 mags but they are standard, for 2011s so they may mean they have mljust as much or more flexibility. And if you want a 23 round magazine it costs just as much to buy a Glock one as a 2011 one you are spending 80-90 regardless

 

[Dooder]

A kimber 2k11 literally does have a bull barrel its only the cheap one the warrior that has a bushing barrel. The 5" kimber has a dust cover the same length as the 4.4 p but has .6 more inches so how is there more weight on the print of the P? There's more weight in the kimber and you can see that because even the polymer grip kimbers are like 4-5 oz heavier than a P. even the polymer gripped 4.25 length slide is 2 oz heavier than the P. the muzzle does not rose more than the p I promise you

I get what you're saying and you're absolutely correct. I'm saying that the numbers don't tell the entire story. Like you posted to the OP. It's 100% a personal experience. I'm saying that when I shot them, the P was softer and smoother for some reason. Part of it is the polymer grip. Polymer grips hit the hand differently because they're soft and flex. The profile of the P grip is smaller than the 2k11 as well. All the variables change things and are unique to that particular gun and shooter. My experience is exactly that - my own experience.

About the barrels, check out the profiles. The P has the conical profile. The weight is pushed towards the muzzle. The 2k11 while it is thicker than a govt, does not have a taper and it's all fluted. So the weight is distributed evenly and despite it being thicker it is lighter than it could be. If you want to see what a heavy bull barrel profile is then check out the Prodigy, or even the TRP Operator. When I get back in town I'll see if I can measure and weigh some of these for you.

 

[RustVendor]

I get what you're saying and you're absolutely correct. I'm saying that the numbers don't tell the entire story. Like you posted to the OP. It's 100% a personal experience. I'm saying that when I shot them, the P was softer and smoother for some reason. Part of it is the polymer grip. Polymer grips hit the hand differently because they're soft and flex. The profile of the P grip is smaller than the 2k11 as well. All the variables change things and are unique to that particular gun and shooter. My experience is exactly that - my own experience.

About the barrels, check out the profiles. The P has the conical profile. The weight is pushed towards the muzzle. The 2k11 while it is thicker than a govt, does not have a taper and it's all fluted. So the weight is distributed evenly and despite it being thicker it is lighter than it could be. If you want to see what a heavy bull barrel profile is then check out the Prodigy, or even the TRP Operator. When I get back in town I'll see if I can measure and weigh some of these for you.

so what does a fluted barrel that's 5" weigh compared to a non fluted 4.4"? They are probably pretty similar. The design of the barrel was done that way on purpose to keep the gun balanced. The gun shoots really well, it shoots as well as a P and I would say better because even in polymer it weighs more, but it's definitely just personal preference. polymer is a preference and I do prefer polymer ,I think the aluminum grip on the 2k11 sucks balls. But 2 of the 4 California models of the 2k11 do actually have a polymer grip. Unfortunately it's not the MJD and it's the dumb kimber one but the stock staccato grip isn't anything to write home about. But all that said you can grab a blem staccato grip from like 10 different places online and fit it to a 2k11 if you want to. Or better yet get the MJD, I run an MJD on my custom build by choice because I prefer it to the cheelys and the other aluminums and steel grips I've tried. But this review says the 2k11 barrel weighs 5.4 oz. https://www.guns.com/news/reviews/review-of-the-new-kimber-2k11-double-stack-2011
I just weighed my 5" bull barrel and it's 6.0 oz. so I would bet it weighs more or is equal to the P barrel. Ironically I see the value in the Kimber barrel having some fluting because I actually added a steel magwell to my gun to balance the front heavy-ness.

 

[pancakes]

shot all. If you like a glock feel a 2k11 is the way to go

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I'm not the biggest fan of 2011 mags but they are standard, for 2011s so they may mean they have mljust as much or more flexibility. And if you want a 23 round magazine it costs just as much to buy a Glock one as a 2011 one you are spending 80-90 regardless

I mean standard in the sense that I can walk into most department stores and find it on the shelf.

And while I've only had to tune 2011 mags twice so far, I really don't want to do that again. If I could just buy new one's with the same capacity and give away the out of spec mags, I'd just do that. Also, not too [enclosed] mag pouch friendly.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

I went Staccato HD P4, knowing I wanted a carry/ range gun that took Glock standard pattern magazines.

Don’t think there is a wrong choice between the three.

 

[RustVendor]

I mean standard in the sense that I can walk into most department stores and find it on the shelf.

And while I've only had to tune 2011 mags twice so far, I really don't want to do that again. If I could just buy new one's with the same capacity and give away the out of spec mags, I'd just do that. Also, not too [enclosed] mag pouch friendly.

I definitely can't defend 2011 mags because they do have inherent issues but I also don't like glock mags because they don't stick to my magnet, and I don't like p320 mags because I don't have a p320. That's kind of the issue is which other magazine do we choose to replace 2011 mags. I only have atlas mags and haven't had to tune any of them, but it's also not something that I find inherently annoying Im constantly tuning everything I shoot for better or for worse. They do have the advantage of not needing an extension to be 140mm though. So they basically all suck. And none of the mags I use can be found in any store in CA haha. Bu seriously, what should replace it? There's a lot of reasons a replacement would be better not just for magazine function but it would reduce the size of the magazine funnel in the grip and would be more conducive to different grip shapes and panel styles which would be very nice to have. I do use the same mag pouches for 2011 mags as m&p mags though it's just a few twists of the adjuster screw

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I definitely can't defend 2011 mags because they do have inherent issues but I also don't like glock mags because they don't stick to my magnet, and I don't like p320 mags because I don't have a p320. That's kind of the issue is which other magazine do we choose to replace 2011 mags. I only have atlas mags and haven't had to tune any of them, but it's also not something that I find inherently annoying Im constantly tuning everything I shoot for better or for worse. They do have the advantage of not needing an extension to be 140mm though. So they basically all suck. And none of the mags I use can be found in any store in CA haha. Bu seriously, what should replace it? There's a lot of reasons a replacement would be better not just for magazine function but it would reduce the size of the magazine funnel in the grip and would be more conducive to different grip shapes and panel styles which would be very nice to have. I do use the same mag pouches for 2011 mags as m&p mags though it's just a few twists of the adjuster screw

One good thing about Glock mags is that there's also steel Glock style mags like Mec-Gar. I've had issue's with those but I just needed to change the spring and follower. Sig is keeping the P320 mags around for the P385 as well.