AI - The Good The Bad The Ugly

[cali_jazz]

Honest question, how mechanical are you? like rebuild motors handy or I can change a tire, maybe handy?

I’ve seen some of the “here is a large data set, pull X info out” That is impressive. But the “hey help me do this thing.” (plumbing, wiring, mechanical) it’s total .

I don’t have any use for it to do data sorting task, and it’s failed all “handy man” tasks i’ve sent its way. So maybe I have no use case for it.

I'm reasonably handy, I've worked on plenty of my own firearms and built several AR's but I'm not a certified gunsmith. I know enough to recognize when something doesn't look right or to ask for help when I've reached a dead end. My experience with AI troubleshooting has been mixed, as I've already acknowledged. But even when it doesn't solve the problem outright, it has helped me understand the mechanics, identify possible causes, and narrow down what to investigate next. Eventually I figured out the issue in that particular case but again when I was stumped, AI got me thinking deeper about the problem and helped eliminate other possibilities.

Maybe you don't need AI because you're so adept in so many areas. Me, I'm just a humble lifelong learner trying to absorb as much knowledge as I can without having to rebuild an engine to understand how one works. But I did stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night.

 

[cali_jazz]

This is actually a good example of what I was saying above. Big time devil's advocate dump here, don't worry we can still be friends

I can't say you didn't benefit from the interaction with the chat bot, but it's the same as if you call a gunsmith every time you have an issue but never learn it yourself (except the chat bot is objectively worse at diagnostics to begin with). Treating symptoms often works, and you may even learn something about your guns it's not black and white. But really digging into your guns and finding out how they fundamentally work is objectively better. I find the best tool for diagnostics is a 3d animation of the action and comparing the parts you installed vs the ones you took out. They always have some kind of purpose, often it's to shorten the takeup or make the sear and hammer work better together or have a lighter action. Now reading forum posts can help with this, there's a really good one on 1911 extractor tuning (1911forum.com steveinallentown) that's one of the best tutorials I have ever seen about a gun part. But those often don't exist for your particular problem. A chat bot isn't putting you in a situation to understand the problem in most cases, the problem solving that really matters happens in the dark spaces where you can look at a parts diagram and your gun and see that the shortened takeup made it so your firing pin safety wasn't depressed properly (looking at you apex M&P trigger). The chat bot isn't conducive to giving you the space to problem solve because you are looking to the chat bot to give you the ideas rather than filling the space yourself. That's my inherent critique of all of these kinds of things including google, that we are actually pretty creative and competent if we give ourselves the space to be, and the internet in general and especially a plain text chat bot interrupts that creative process that requires time and effort to culture. My critique isn't that chat bots never work, it's that they only help temporarily. Sometimes that's all you want or need but I do see it as inherently problematic.

The issue with my gun part is a little convoluted and probably not the best example. There was a Tandemkross video showing how to replace the extractor , but when I attempted to remove the module which looked fairly straightforward in the video, it didn't work; the FN module was a bear to get out eventually requiring more force than I would have liked and then the Tandemkross module would not go into the housing no matter what I did. I tried everything I could think of but didn't want to ruin the housing, which it turned out is only supplied by one company, cost $75 and is always out of stock. Long story short AI had told me a housing pin was molded in to the plastic and not to try and force it, which I believed. It turned out it was not molded in and once I realized I could remove it, I was able to insert the new part just like I'm sure it was done at the factory, then reinsert the pin. Without going through the process of elimination with AI, I'm pretty sure the gun would be sitting in my safe unusable until I sent it back to FN for a two month expensive repair.

I actually agree with much of what you're saying, particularly when it comes to developing independent thinking and problem-solving skills. I've spent a lifetime figuring things out for myself, long before AI was available. I already have those skills, and AI is simply another resource I could use to expand my knowledge and explore possibilities. But I can see how someone growing up with AI might become dependent on it for answers and never develop those skills in the first place. That's a legit concern. Where we differ is in the assumption that using AI necessarily interferes with independent thinking. For me, it often stimulates it. I still have to evaluate the information, question the conclusions, and figure out what actually makes sense. I see it as another tool in the learning process, not a replacement for the process itself. Best to be judicious in it's use and application for sure, but not inherently bad or evil as some have suggested.

Glad we can still be friends, but I wasn't worried at all

 

[ikeo1]

its only good if you support multi-billionares to get even more money so they can replace you with AI as their workforce so you become jobless and maybe lose your house, your wife and kids, and maybe your dog and be homeless on the street. other than that, you good i guess.

That's almost exactly what happened. Then I built this place... Look up what a LocalLLM is.

 

[Gawernator]

Honest question, how mechanical are you? like rebuild motors handy or I can change a tire, maybe handy?

I’ve seen some of the “here is a large data set, pull X info out” That is impressive. But the “hey help me do this thing.” (plumbing, wiring, mechanical) it’s total .

I don’t have any use for it to do data sorting task, and it’s failed all “handy man” tasks i’ve sent its way. So maybe I have no use case for it.

My friend I raced and shoot with etc just used Chatgpt to diagnose and fix an electrical fault / drain in his gf's car last week or two, that ended up being a faulty turn signal stalk that kept draining the battery. Replaced it and car is good to go again. Crazy how smart OpenAI is now.

 

[Gawernator]

yeah and when someone asks you about where that coffee shop is or what those "science topics" are you will know F- all because you didn't engage with any of it in a meaningful way, you are being spoonfed surface level trash and will eventually only be able to interact and probably date an AI because reality will be too boring and messy compared to a constant pandering fantasy. Its the same reason being rich gives you brain worms, they don't have to work for things they just pay people to do everything and they go insane.

so we got the brain worms for free?

 

[Wolkenflieger]

yeah and when someone asks you about where that coffee shop is or what those "science topics" are you will know F- all because you didn't engage with any of it in a meaningful way, you are being spoonfed surface level trash and will eventually only be able to interact and probably date an AI because reality will be too boring and messy compared to a constant pandering fantasy. Its the same reason being rich gives you brain worms, they don't have to work for things they just pay people to do everything and they go insane.

You know you really shouldn't hold back.

I'm 58 and have done more years of critical thinking than most people you know have been alive. It's a favorite topic of mine. So, even if I get spoonfed bull I'm probably going to clock it.

No offense.

P.S. I've had a real girlfriend for almost 30 years now. Doing pretty well on that front.

 

[miles888]

The people who properly leverage AI are doing so, more and more with each passing day.

For the average person it’s mostly useless, or another way to entertain.

 

[miles888]

I am apprehensive as a bystander.

There seems to be a large concern for the consumption of valuable resources such as fresh water, rare earth minerals, and of course energy sources.

The potentials for rapid processing of data, Threat assessment, efficiency in labor, advancement in science and tech are astounding. What does it cost society though?

Not to mention the dooms day fear of AI being used to wreak havoc on a grand scale with vulnerable infrastructure such as the power grid, banking systems and all.

I guess to sum up my concern.. it’s incredible tech with amazing potential. However, just as Nobel discovered, A great achievement may come with a cost too great to bare when used for other means such as war/defense etc.

Market dominance and Sovereign integrity may require us to invest heavily in AI, but it could come at terrible costs.

On the other hand it will create jobs, advance healthcare science, research, wellness, life balance, economic growth and all. As long as the growth of the tech is done with respect to resources, consequences, and the communities impacted.

Almond farms in California use more water than all the data centers in the USA combined.

 

[mblat1968]

I voted good. But there are caveats.
It is a tool. Very very sharp tool so if you are not careful you will cut yourself.
Also I strongly disagree with 10x productivity. In my main line of work it is maybe 2x. Or even less. The difference is that it allows you to do things that normally you would not do in the first place as too complicated for me because I luck skill for the task.

So positive yes. Overyped heavily? Also yes.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Almond farms in California use more water than all the data centers in the USA combined.

Yeah, that will get me going on an entire other rant about CA politics

 

[Hudson85]

I’m firmly in the negative camp, but there are for sure some benefits, which are overshadowed by the more insidious way it’s being embraced by those in power. There’s a narrative being formed about the inevitability, and there is a lot of money being made while restructuring the economy to make sure we’re all tethered to the outcome. The AI companies are now peddling this idea that it’s scary, grouping together to show how serious they all are about it and that the only way to fix it is to allow them to all work without oversight. Tech is about growth at all costs and normal people are the ones who will pay the price.

In terms of creative uses: it’s absolute dog. Seriously, dog. Everything looks the same now. Every flyer for restaurants, gyms, gun stores, all AI slop that leaves you wondering if the place or product even exists. We’ve had these tools for a while now, so where is all this great media that’s being created? It’s all dog because it skips the fundamental creative process.

It’s the same way we were told crypto was the next big thing. It wasn’t, it still isn’t, it’s dog and the people telling you it’s the next big thing have a vested interest in you believing it.

 

[Shellbackitup]

Almond farms in California use more water than all the data centers in the USA combined.

Almonds are food though.

And we literally supply 80% of the world's almonds and 100% of the US from CA farms.

Datacenters in the US don't supply 80% of the processing worldwide.

That's an apples and oranges comparison.

Water being converted to food through agriculture, and water being consumed to be coolant (primary or secondary) are two very different usages.

For example, construction uses 15%+ of ALL freshwater usage

Almonds use 15% of agricultural water in CA

But Ag water isn't ALL freshwater it's only a percentage

100% there needs to be changes in almond farming. But using that issue to dismiss concerns of freshwater usage of datacenters is just "whataboutism"

 

[mblat1968]

Forgot to add. I am generally against heavy government regulations.
But recently I thought of two I would support.
First is forcing every car on road to have autopilot and allowing only automatic driving during on freeways
Second is absolute prohibition of children of school age from using AI. What this thing does to qualify of education is really catastrophic.

 

[Gromann]

There's no verbiage I can muster that would adequately summarize my disdain for AI. Half my work say is fixing some ai bull someone else handed me.

 

[chiroken007]

Almond farms in California use more water than all the data centers in the USA combined.

Agreed.. but that’s producing food. For humans.

It is excessive how out of balance water consumption is though. The greatest water consumer is meat industry (including producing feed for the livestock)

 

[RustVendor]

80% of the water use in CA is agriculture but a big reason why is because they have the water rights. Legally, water rights are deemed property even though the water itself is technically owned by the public. Water rights are a huge can of worms and Californias system is especially messy.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I do think stuff like gen AI mêmes and images attempting to depict real people or filters are perhaps the grossest use of it. Also, just general AI slop posting.

But for building software I absolutely love it! I’m better able to focus all the best parts of my knowledge and experience on the actual project vs. fighting with people over why we should be using functional paradigms or making our cloud infra vendor agnostic…

Also, I actually encourage people to vibe code. But forget about the code. Focus on the product and ideas you want to bring to the world.

 

[USMC06RET]

Yeah, those are the ones. Scary as hell. I can’t imagine fighting with those bastards driving around and drones swarming you the second you poke your head out.

Add in everyone and everything has thermals, plus 4 years on and no air superiority. Just crazy.

i’m just waiting for the other shoe to drop in the Pacific at this point…

So many people are not looking at the forest when it comes to AI, only at their own trees.

If more people were familiar with the U.S. DoD project Maven and how many people AI has already been responsible for killing, they might look at this topic differently.

The number of incidents (among classified AI systems) of containment breach, emergent communications, AI swarming, treacherous turn, etc. that have occurred within the US DoD alone would scare the crap out of anyone with a brain.

At a tactical level alone, AI has already changed the complexion of the entire battlefield; on the ground, at sea, in the air and in space. It won't be long before human carried small arms become obsolete. Hell, like you said, a person sticking his head above ground on the modern battlefield is basically dead within moments. How long will it be before it's just machines battling machines?

It's an insane game and we should stop playing it before it kills us all.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I selected “Good” but it’s closer to “Both” for me. I just didn’t like the “hate it” framing.

I use it enthusiastically and it has helped me solve larger, more complex problems at a much faster rate.

Like most things in life it’s just a tool and how we use it determines whether it’s ultimately helpful or destructive.

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

I wonder how much you living in the bay area colors your view. The rest of the country really does not like the AI companies at all. Across party lines, age, demographics. It is widely hated. Those are the areas that are going to face the brunt of the impact as well as not see the benefit of it.

I think those in the Bay Area and other metro areas could be and are being effected first. Microsoft is offering buy out package for 60,000 of their 240,000 employees (25%) of their workforce. I'm not sure those in middle America will be as affected in the near term until AI Robots take their manual labor type jobs. Ultimately all of the US (and the World) will be affected. The challenge for the Governments of the World will be what/how to deal with mass unemployment in the next 10 years. Elon says "Robots will do everything freeing up mankind to pursue their interests and only work if they want to". I don't see that happening!