AK battle (coming soon)

[1911whore]

I own a Zastava ZPAP m70 and these are regarded
As the best AK import on the US market. I JUST picked up a Kalashnikov USA KR-103 and THESE are regarded as the best AMERICAN made AK’s available. SO, I think it would be fun to see between the best US made and Best IMPORT AK’s, which one is truly king of the AKs!!!

 

[Ludesmonkey]

Uh no they aren’t. Zastava tried to make up for bad metallurgy by having a thicker reciever making it very heavy. Also the furniture is proprietary it’s not standard akm furninture. I’d take my Wasr or beryl over a zastava anyday. I had one and got rid of it.

 

[1911whore]

Interesting. Can you point me in a direction that quantifies that statement? Everything I’ve read and watched speaks very highly and regard them as “the best AK on the American market today”

 

[Ludesmonkey]

Zastava’s thicker receiver is heavier than a standard AKM.
Source: their specs. Not only are they heavier than they need to be there’s no reason to have a thicker receiver on a semi auto AKM rifle, many believe this is because they had metalugy issues with the standard thickness receiver and had to make up for it thus creating an unnecessarily heavy rifle. I know for a while Zaba was having major issues with the rivets egging out the receiver holes. You can look this up. It’s pretty common knowledge.

Furniture is not standard AKM
Source: fact look it up.

 

[Ludesmonkey]

I don’t mean to be negative Nelly but KUSA went out of business. I hope you don’t ever need any warranty work, but they are kaput. Believe they filed for bankruptcy last week.

 

[1911whore]

Yes, I understand they are out of business.

 

[threatnaught]

Zastava receivers are 1.5mm thick instead of the 1mm AKM spec. The buldged trunnions are left over from when Yugoslavian guns were set up for grenade launching. There was a period when Zastava was cutting corners and Century Arms was F-ing up the imports. Which made for rifles. But Zastava USA still has considerably better QC than Century let alone any of the show US companies.

Yes, they are heavier than stamped AK's. But still lighter than milled AK's.

Yuga pattern rifles (both SKS and AK derivatives actually) use different furniture than the original Russian specs call for. Yugoslavia wasn't under the same pressure to standardize parts as the rest of the Soviet bloc. That history is rather well documented elsewhere and not just about small arms design.

That said, people that were in combat in Yugoslavia and found the chance to pick up Romanian AK's apparently did so because they were lighter than Yugo rifles.

WASR-10's can be good enough, cheap, and reliable. They're clearly not as nice as East Germany, Polish, Bulgarian, Hungarian, or Russian AK builds, or modern Polish stuff, but still, generally, considerably better than any US made complete rifles.

KUSA rifles are known to have had a variety of issues over the life of their company. Now that their gone, you're going to have a hard time getting things fixed in case they do fail.

Do your research on known failure modes for the 103's. Get headspace gauges and keep an eye on the headspace.

 

[Deleted member 9396]

Zastava makes a good (imported) AK but they are not the best imported AK rifle.
I like a Yugo pattern AK as much as the next man but a nice WBP Fox or Arsenal make a much nicer (imported) AK rifle all day.
I'd avoid any American made AK.
I always prefer to find a nice Euro/Commie parts kit and have Randall build up a fine surplus AK rifle on a stripped receiver.

cheers

 

[Malibu]

I’ll stick with our variety of Arsenal products. None have ever failed. My favorite is the SAM 7K pistol. I acquired it some time ago as a political statement. Back then we named it “Kamala”, long before the politician was running with the diaper man. The rest is for another thread.

 

[5ForFighting]

Meridian Defense says hi

 

[Enfielder]

I saw a picture of a Yugoslav M70 in combat in the DRC the other day. It looked pretty well used but seemed to be shooting just fine. somebody should tell those guys that their M70s are inferior crap.

 

[Malibu]

What is the consensus on Riley Defence rifles? Have an opportunity to pick one up (NIB) for $400~ inclusive of the PPT expense, etc. The stock has a reddish hue to it, and it has one of those “fin grips” as well. If that is a good deal, I’ll take it back to America and leave it to use in an upcoming class.

 

[Deleted member 9396]

I saw a picture of a Yugoslav M70 in combat in the DRC the other day. It looked pretty well used but seemed to be shooting just fine. somebody should tell those guys that their M70s are inferior crap.

Yugo pattern AKs are good. I've owned both Romy and Yugo rifles and they're both good to go. I wouldn't call an M70 'crap'.
I was just chiming in with a good word about a few other flavors of AKs
and by the way Yugo M72 RPK is an absolute beast and a TON of fun to shoot

my thoughts on a Riley Defence AK: I'd want to know where the parts kit originated from (Polish,Hungarian, Romy, etc) and if like to know if the parts numbers match ie: bolt & carrier & front trunnion -- and if there are any cast parts -- (cast parts are what most USA manufactured AK parts kits contain) - this is why many avoid USA made AK and AK parts. Cast parts are just not very good/strong on an AK rifle. Especially and specifically the TRUNNIONS.

I see that Riley Defence mentions they use Forged Parts (for at least a few of the parts - that tells me they have some cast parts also maybe?)
Not sure and would wantto know what nation the parts came from originally and what type of barrel (FB Radom cold hammer forged or basic cheap barrel)

The Commies knew how to make AK parts. The Euro made commie parts kits are forged parts. (higher quality, fit and finish - not to mention DURABILITY)
The best quality forged/machined parts kits (IMO) are Polish and Hungarian and East German and Bulgarian followed by Yugo (aka Serbian) and Romanian.
(Russians make great stuff, too,duh, but it's prohibitively expensive for the most part)

Calguns has/has several AK wizards/builder/collectors - hopefully one or more of them chime in with more AK enlightenment

Cheers to 1911whore - good post and good subject. You've got a fine rifle, bro. I say go shoot it and enjoy it!

 

[socalgunowner909]

what do you guys think about the Arsenal Sam7-sf84e???

 

[Striker777]

I own a Zastava ZPAP m70 and these are regarded
As the best AK import on the US market. I JUST picked up a Kalashnikov USA KR-103 and THESE are regarded as the best AMERICAN made AK’s available. SO, I think it would be fun to see between the best US made and Best IMPORT AK’s, which one is truly king of the AKs!!!

Sorry you have bad info who said this or where did you read such a thing Ive Got to know, sounds like some ones bad opinion.
Some of the best ak's are derived from parts kits. not names it comes down to the parts, not all parts are created equal and the company who is manufacturing / selling them.

 

[1911whore]

At the end of the day, all comments on quality are subjective. However, a plethora of articles and videos would state that from the commercially available platform, these are two of the best one is one of the best imports, and the other is one of the best domestic.

 

[PortsideMunitions]

Have been running a KUSA 103 for 10Kish rounds with no hiccups with Wolf steel case. Slapped a KNS adjustable gas piston and called it a day. Ran 50/50 suppressed and unsuppressed. YMMV as these are known to have questionable QC. Seen more KP9s go back for warranty than anything. For milled we love the Arsenal SAM7. The WPB Fox has been on the radar but the KUSA 103 has been running fine. Not big AK guys over here but want to plan a visit to see Jim Fuller for an AK building class. At the end of the day, buy what you like and run your .

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

Zastava receivers are 1.5mm thick instead of the 1mm AKM spec. The buldged trunnions are left over from when Yugoslavian guns were set up for grenade launching. There was a period when Zastava was cutting corners and Century Arms was F-ing up the imports. Which made for rifles. But Zastava USA still has considerably better QC than Century let alone any of the show US companies.

Yes, they are heavier than stamped AK's. But still lighter than milled AK's.

Yuga pattern rifles (both SKS and AK derivatives actually) use different furniture than the original Russian specs call for. Yugoslavia wasn't under the same pressure to standardize parts as the rest of the Soviet bloc. That history is rather well documented elsewhere and not just about small arms design.

That said, people that were in combat in Yugoslavia and found the chance to pick up Romanian AK's apparently did so because they were lighter than Yugo rifles.

WASR-10's can be good enough, cheap, and reliable. They're clearly not as nice as East Germany, Polish, Bulgarian, Hungarian, or Russian AK builds, or modern Polish stuff, but still, generally, considerably better than any US made complete rifles.

KUSA rifles are known to have had a variety of issues over the life of their company. Now that their gone, you're going to have a hard time getting things fixed in case they do fail.

Do your research on known failure modes for the 103's. Get headspace gauges and keep an eye on the headspace.

Just saw a whole documentary video talking about the gernade launching capability being the reason for a thicker receiver, nothing at all to do with metallurgy being poor.

They never changed the design after rifle gernade capability fell out of fashion.