Ammunition Background Check and Unintended Consequences

[ikeo1]

Democrats are a centrist party, not in any way. s consider the Dems conservative. It could help you to learn about the things you criticize, you may come to a more meaningful conclusion with actionable results.

The fringe minorities really hijacked the parties for what most normal people like. It's amazing when you get the top billionaires against the loudest minorities. Most people thought this was America and you should be able to have your own freedom, but these days freedom means, as long as you follow a specific definition of what freedom means.

I don't blame people for being upset with people who take advantage of the system on the left and right. What I get upset with is people pretending their side doesn't do it and not really segmenting the groups better.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

The fringe minorities really hijacked the parties for what most normal people like. It's amazing when you get the top billionaires against the loudest minorities. Most people thought this was America and you should be able to have your own freedom, but these days freedom means, as long as you follow a specific definition of what freedom means.

I don't blame people for being upset with people who take advantage of the system on the left and right. What I get upset with is people pretending their side doesn't do it and not really segmenting the groups better.

I don't really see that on the Dem side though as far as being hijacked by "far s", even here in California they still just do everything they can to support capitalism with very small concessions to people. For instance they have voted down single payer healthcare multiple times now. I would like to see the Dems go a lot further left so we can actually get something for our taxes. I really think a lot of the failings of the state are because of the continuing of status quo, not far left ideas. Prop 13 and NIMBYs are the real dangers here and account for a lot more of what people complain about than anything else. A real idea would be to actually build housing instead of relying on localities and markets to do it. A real idea would be to end private equity from buying houses. My biggest critique outside of the gun control issues is that the Dems aren't enough to actually get anything done, they are just perpetrating capitalism.

 

[ikeo1]

I don't really see that on the Dem side though as far as being hijacked by "far s", even here in California they still just do everything they can to support capitalism with very small concessions to people. For instance they have voted down single payer healthcare multiple times now. I would like to see the Dems go a lot further left so we can actually get something for our taxes. I really think a lot of the failings of the state are because of the continuing of status quo, not far left ideas. Prop 13 and NIMBYs are the real dangers here and account for a lot more of what people complain about than anything else. A real idea would be to actually build housing instead of relying on localities and markets to do it. A real idea would be to end private equity from buying houses. My biggest critique outside of the gun control issues is that the Dems aren't enough to actually get anything done, they are just perpetrating capitalism.

I disagree, there’s a lot of things wrong with how soft we’ve become.

They are a bit soft and take too much to help people who don’t want to be helped. The homeless, theft, and drug problems are the worst. While they take money to “build housing” no one ever sees and create programs while spending money on bs initiatives.

I’d like to see us get more strict on crime and less wasteful. Dems hide their spending behind bleeding heart initiatives and add fluff no different than Reps. I wish we could have people who actually governed for people again.

Everyone’s so self centered trying to get their own bag and using other people as excuses. Do people really need to be that rich? Or would it be better to have a happier society. It’s tough to find that balance, but the older I get the less I want materially and more free time I’d like to see. Everyone is getting so busy when we’re supposed to be the most productive we’ve ever been and making the most. It’s counterintuitive

 

[Gawernator]

I don't really see that on the Dem side though as far as being hijacked by "far s", even here in California they still just do everything they can to support capitalism with very small concessions to people. For instance they have voted down single payer healthcare multiple times now. I would like to see the Dems go a lot further left so we can actually get something for our taxes. I really think a lot of the failings of the state are because of the continuing of status quo, not far left ideas. Prop 13 and NIMBYs are the real dangers here and account for a lot more of what people complain about than anything else. A real idea would be to actually build housing instead of relying on localities and markets to do it. A real idea would be to end private equity from buying houses. My biggest critique outside of the gun control issues is that the Dems aren't enough to actually get anything done, they are just perpetrating capitalism.

Russia is calling for you

 

[five.five-six]

Feinstein and Pelosi are out, Kamala isn't going to be gov. There's an opportunity to get someone more moderate who can work for modern Californian's.

I don’t know if you’ve seen or heard any of the advertisements but it seems like a giant race to see who hates Trump the most. I honestly haven’t heard any solutions just I hate Trump more than everybody else. It’s psychotic. The state has real problems and hating Trump isn’t going to help them.

 

[weaverftw]

Whichever mod deleted my comment totally missed the joke and sarcasm, I was agreeing with the person I quoted which I thought was clear because I liked their comment and pointed out how the dem party aligns with Wall Street which is not very … calling them a commie was an obvious joke…

Especially odd considering some of the comments a few of the residents trolls make ACTUALLY talking to other members for no reason…

Edit: btw the dude I quoted liked this comment so obviously he got it…

 

[Deleted member 16735]

I disagree, there’s a lot of things wrong with how soft we’ve become.

They are a bit soft and take too much to help people who don’t want to be helped. The homeless, theft, and drug problems are the worst. While they take money to “build housing” no one ever sees and create programs while spending money on bs initiatives.

I’d like to see us get more strict on crime and less wasteful. Dems hide their spending behind bleeding heart initiatives and add fluff no different than Reps. I wish we could have people who actually governed for people again.

Everyone’s so self centered trying to get their own bag and using other people as excuses. Do people really need to be that rich? Or would it be better to have a happier society. It’s tough to find that balance, but the older I get the less I want materially and more free time I’d like to see. Everyone is getting so busy when we’re supposed to be the most productive we’ve ever been and making the most. It’s counterintuitive

the "softness" on crime is more a product of the fact that arresting the homeless and addicts or giving them fines does absolutely nothing and ends up costing us more than just letting them kill themselves on the street. So what is there to do but have "programs"? Obviously we need something better, we need housing and jobs. But spending tax dollars on that is one of the best investments we can make with a dollar, done right it can directly create housing and jobs. Ca is supposed to be building housing for the homeless as of a bill that past a few years ago and I think it's a relevant critique to wonder why we haven't seen much yet, but we don't know one way or the other if it's actually being wasted yet. I am fully on board with government accountability on spending though. We also have to be realistic about how much is spent on these programs, it's massively overstated by certain governor candidates that think they can get rid of the gas tax by getting rid of "fraud waste and abuse". The largest categories are healthcare and education by far, comprising 72% of the entire budget. Prop 13 is responsible for the education spending to be so high because instead of property tax we pay for it with income tax. Healthcare is that high because it's a bandaid on a bad system, if there's any waste fraud and abuse it's there in the healthcare industry and the way to solve it is single payer. Less cost for more service, better price controls. But instead people are like, California suuuccks so let's just let corporations rule our lives instead. It's way easier to sell "deregulation" than effective regulation. with dereg you don't actually have to do anything. Effective rules are often boring and tedious and cost money but are really the only answer when the "free market" fails to account for housing and healthcare costs.

 

[weaverftw]

I don’t know if you’ve seen or heard any of the advertisements but it seems like a giant race to see who hates Trump the most. I honestly haven’t heard any solutions just I hate Trump more than everybody else. It’s psychotic. The state has real problems and hating Trump isn’t going to help them.

Yeah I don’t like Trump for a variety of reasons but the TDS is very real and makes some people absolutely insane

 

[weaverftw]

the "softness" on crime is more a product of the fact that arresting the homeless and addicts or giving them fines does absolutely nothing and ends up costing us more than just letting them kill themselves on the street. So what is there to do but have "programs"? Obviously we need something better, we need housing and jobs. But spending tax dollars on that is one of the best investments we can make with a dollar, done right it can directly create housing and jobs. Ca is supposed to be building housing for the homeless as of a bill that past a few years ago and I think it's a relevant critique to wonder why we haven't seen much yet, but we don't know one way or the other if it's actually being wasted yet. I am fully on board with government accountability on spending though. We also have to be realistic about how much is spent on these programs, it's massively overstated by certain governor candidates that think they can get rid of the gas tax by getting rid of "fraud waste and abuse". The largest categories are healthcare and education by far, comprising 72% of the entire budget. Prop 13 is responsible for the education spending to be so high because instead of property tax we pay for it with income tax. Healthcare is that high because it's a bandaid on a bad system, if there's any waste fraud and abuse it's there in the healthcare industry and the way to solve it is single payer. Less cost for more service, better price controls. But instead people are like, California suuuccks so let's just let corporations rule our lives instead. It's way easier to sell "deregulation" than effective regulation. with dereg you don't actually have to do anything. Effective rules are often boring and tedious and cost money but are really the only answer when the "free market" fails to account for housing and healthcare costs.



View attachment 183818

I’ve indirectly worked in healthcare on the insurance and litigation side, but it’s enough to see how absolutely crazy the system is. Incentives are all screwed up. I personally got a bill for $8k a couple years ago and called them and said “I’ll give you $1200 today if you send me an email saying we’re square” and settled it just like that. Most people don’t know that’s even an option, no hospital should be billing someone 8k for something that’s really only worth 1200 or less for them to remain profitable. It’s insane

 

[ikeo1]

Yeah I don’t like Trump for a variety of reasons but the TDS is very real and makes some people absolutely insane

Remember what they were saying about Biden and Hunter? All gone now because its not relevant... Lock her up Hilary.. Good lord the bull we see with the pitchforks and torches these days is tiring.. You can't say it's one way.. Anyone with eyes can see it's not just trump, Pelosi's husband got beat, we've had threats here for some people, which we reported to secret service due to legitimate issues.

I have some haters because they think I'm a liberul, who wanted to fight me and often throw not so subtle hints. In my position, I can't say anything, but people can say all they want to me and the people here while they hide safely behind their keyboards.

 

[ikeo1]

the "softness" on crime is more a product of the fact that arresting the homeless and addicts or giving them fines does absolutely nothing and ends up costing us more than just letting them kill themselves on the street. So what is there to do but have "programs"? Obviously we need something better, we need housing and jobs. But spending tax dollars on that is one of the best investments we can make with a dollar, done right it can directly create housing and jobs. Ca is supposed to be building housing for the homeless as of a bill that past a few years ago and I think it's a relevant critique to wonder why we haven't seen much yet, but we don't know one way or the other if it's actually being wasted yet. I am fully on board with government accountability on spending though. We also have to be realistic about how much is spent on these programs, it's massively overstated by certain governor candidates that think they can get rid of the gas tax by getting rid of "fraud waste and abuse". The largest categories are healthcare and education by far, comprising 72% of the entire budget. Prop 13 is responsible for the education spending to be so high because instead of property tax we pay for it with income tax. Healthcare is that high because it's a bandaid on a bad system, if there's any waste fraud and abuse it's there in the healthcare industry and the way to solve it is single payer. Less cost for more service, better price controls. But instead people are like, California suuuccks so let's just let corporations rule our lives instead. It's way easier to sell "deregulation" than effective regulation. with dereg you don't actually have to do anything. Effective rules are often boring and tedious and cost money but are really the only answer when the "free market" fails to account for housing and healthcare costs.



View attachment 183818

I don't buy it, I'm an efficiency freak and it's just not efficient. We have the funds, but too much of it goes to garbage projects that yield no benefit.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

I’ve indirectly worked in healthcare on the insurance and litigation side, but it’s enough to see how absolutely crazy the system is. Incentives are all screwed up. I personally got a bill for $8k a couple years ago and called them and said “I’ll give you $1200 today if you send me an email saying we’re square” and settled it just like that. Most people don’t know that’s even an option, no hospital should be billing someone 8k for something that’s really only worth 1200 or less for them to remain profitable. It’s insane

it's a mess

 

[weaverftw]

Remember what they were saying about Biden and Hunter? All gone now because its not relevant... Lock her up Hilary.. Good lord the bull we see with the pitchforks and torches these days is tiring.. You can't say it's one way.. Anyone with eyes can see it's not just trump, Pelosi's husband got beat, we've had threats here for some people, which we reported to secret service due to legitimate issues.

I have some haters because they think I'm a liberul, who wanted to fight me and often throw not so subtle hints. In my position, I can't say anything, but people can say all they want to me and the people here while they hide safely behind their keyboards.

Oh I am 100% in agreement, it’s not one way at all. That’s what makes it so scary and disheartening. People are all in their little silos thinking they understand the world and are in some kind of battle of good vs evil… that’s how many horrific wars and genocides have been sparked in the past.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

I don't buy it, I'm an efficiency freak and it's just not efficient. We have the funds, but too much of it goes to garbage projects that yield no benefit.

the question with government spending though is: compared to what? Would we actually be better off with a libertarian paradise ruled by corporations and zero social services? The actual efficiency is hard to measure because a democracy operates differently. You can't just put one guy in charge (a king) and let them choose whats good and what sucks because inevitably they will only choose what's good for their cronies. It's bad enough with our democratic republic, imagine if the state was actually run by a CEO it would be much much worse. It's not super satisfying because government is a slow moving ship that often runs on old equipment but that's actually how it works best. You don't want it to be possible for a governor to come in and change everything overnight, there's a process through the legislature. It's not always going to be the best but it's the best process we have for now.

There are certainly dumb programs but how much of the budget is that actually? lets say they cut the entire 26 billion dollar social services budget overnight. It's about 600 dollars per person per year. Lets say there's 10% bulle programs, 60 bucks a year? The reality is that number is biased way higher towards much higher incomes too, making 6 figures is barely middle class anymore so the amount we would actually get back if they cut that portion of tax is even lower. Anyway, I am all for making it work better, I do not think that cutting programs and taxes will put money in my pocket and make society better. I'm just saying be careful and don't throw the baby out with the bathwater because it may not actually help.

 

[ikeo1]

the question with government spending though is: compared to what? Would we actually be better off with a libertarian paradise ruled by corporations and zero social services? The actual efficiency is hard to measure because a democracy operates differently. You can't just put one guy in charge (a king) and let them choose whats good and what sucks because inevitably they will only choose what's good for their cronies. It's bad enough with our democratic republic, imagine if the state was actually run by a CEO it would be much much worse. It's not super satisfying because government is a slow moving ship that often runs on old equipment but that's actually how it works best. You don't want it to be possible for a governor to come in and change everything overnight, there's a process through the legislature. It's not always going to be the best but it's the best process we have for now.

There are certainly dumb programs but how much of the budget is that actually? lets say they cut the entire 26 billion dollar social services budget overnight. It's about 600 dollars per person per year. Lets say there's 10% bulle programs, 60 bucks a year? The reality is that number is biased way higher towards much higher incomes too, making 6 figures is barely middle class anymore so the amount we would actually get back if they cut that portion of tax is even lower. Anyway, I am all for making it work better, I do not think that cutting programs and taxes will put money in my pocket and make society better. I'm just saying be careful and don't throw the baby out with the bathwater because it may not actually help.

You're going to the opposite extreme. I think we just need good leaders who do the right thing and spend our money wisely. Programs are good but we need people who set the right ones and also don't take advantage of it.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

As the long weekend is underway, we've got more relatives getting together and we started chatting. They are my younger cousins, nieces, nephews, etc. Topic of ammo background check came up. I told them my experiences and stories that 15 years ago I was a typical young liberal progressive just like them. And I stupidly voted Yes on the ammunition background check thinking that criminals should not get ammo that easily, yes I was so naive and clueless back then. The key takeaway I told them was that the State will sucker us young people into some innocent ideals (e.g. crime prevention) and morph into something else. We thought it was just a simple background check for ammo, but it turned out it is actually a Registry, remember they record the ammunition type, caliber, quantity everytime we purchase ammo. Couple of my nieces just brushed me off like I am just some old right wing nut. Funny that's what I thought of my uncle years ago who introduced me to the shooting sports. Food for thought. This forum has lots of younger generation.

You are not aRone (alone). I’ve had similar experiences when talking about guns and hunting. When you were right by stating facts or asking very specific questions without yelling across the room like at a dim sum restaurant to let the goods be known (Pork Buns! Chicken Feet! Egg Tarts! Shu Mai!); why do others shut down, close off, or go silent?

 

[five.five-six]

Yeah I don’t like Trump for a variety of reasons but the TDS is very real and makes some people absolutely insane

I’m not a Trump fanboy. There’s plenty of room for improvement to be sure. I do prefer him to Biden, and Harris is/was a train wreck by any metric but that’s a different discussion.

Not at top of mind bot there were several things both Biden and Obama did which I agreed with . The only thing Harris ever did that I agreed with was vanish into a bottle after her trouncing. For all Trump’s faults, the planet did dodge a bullet 2024.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

You're going to the opposite extreme. I think we just need good leaders who do the right thing and spend our money wisely. Programs are good but we need people who set the right ones and also don't take advantage of it.

unfortunately that extreme is the goal of the GOP right now, the only reason they haven't cut more programs is they haven't been able to as the programs and budgets are matters of congress. They were unfortunately successful in raising your healthcare costs. But for instance Hilton is on record as saying he want to do that at the state level if he's governor. But you are right, we need good programs and the right people running them so they are more effective. I forgot we aren't in the governor thread though haha. F the ammo background checks

 

[Deleted member 16735]

You are not aRone (alone). I’ve had similar experiences when talking about guns and hunting. When you were right by stating facts or asking very specific questions without yelling across the room like at a dim sum restaurant to let the goods be known (Pork Buns! Chicken Feet! Egg Tarts! Shu Mai!); why do others shut down, close off, or go silent?

a good way to get young people to relate is to equate it to drugs. People can always find drugs, they will always find a way even though we have been fighting the "drug war" for the same amount of time as we have had gun control. Neither have really done much. Criminals get a hold of guns and there's little we can do to stop it so it's the good people that suffer.