Antique Receiver, "maybe" modern cartridge. Still an Antique in CA?

[C&RTrader]

Question for the group. 1895 Chilean Mauser, like many re chambered into 7.62x51 Nato.
Federally, antique based on the receiver. CA has that additional requirement about ammunition.

"(c) As used in Sections 16531 and 17700, “antique firearm” means either of the following:
(1) Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before the year 1898. This type of firearm includes any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898.
(2) Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before the year 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."

However, this is a small ring mauser. There are tons of online opinions stating that you should not fire any modern cartridges through this (especially 308) given the age of steel, modern pressures etc etc and the only way to safely fire this is to hand load which would likely place it squarely within the framework of what was intended by the above. But you could risk it and run modern .308 through it.

So what say you? Is it an antique or a curio and relic?

 

[Churro]

Question for the group. 1895 Chilean Mauser, like many re chambered into 7.62x51 Nato.
Federally, antique based on the receiver. CA has that additional requirement about ammunition.

"(c) As used in Sections 16531 and 17700, “antique firearm” means either of the following:
(1) Any firearm not designed or redesigned for using rimfire or conventional center fire ignition with fixed ammunition and manufactured in or before the year 1898. This type of firearm includes any matchlock, flintlock, percussion cap, or similar type of ignition system or replica thereof, whether actually manufactured before or after the year 1898.
(2) Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before the year 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."

However, this is a small ring mauser. There are tons of online opinions stating that you should not fire any modern cartridges through this (especially 308) given the age of steel, modern pressures etc etc and the only way to safely fire this is to hand load which would likely place it squarely within the framework of what was intended by the above. But you could risk it and run modern .308 through it.

So what say you? Is it an antique or a curio and relic?

I would still think its an antique as the receiver was made prior to 1898 but it really depends who is looking at it. Some people look at the Finn m39s with a 1898 receiver and 40's barrel still falling into antique status and the same goes for the Turkish 1888 conversions to 8mm.

 

[Gawernator]

Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before the year 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."

Whelp 8mm Mauser is still made here so you're cooked

 

[shroom]

Any firearm using fixed ammunition manufactured in or before the year 1898, for which ammunition is no longer manufactured in the United States and is not readily available in the ordinary channels of commercial trade."

Whelp 8mm Mauser is still made here so you're cooked

This is wrong.

Anything made pre 1899 is antique. UNLESS it is an NFA item.... or was?? Not sure what the status is now with that stuff.

Even in CA 99.9% of all firearms made before 1899 are antiques. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=16170
This defines antique, specifically A and B. C specifies weird stuff like wallet guns and cane guns.
C leads to 17700 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=17700 which states that 16590 doesn't apply to antiques... 16590 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=16590 defines a bunch of generally prohibited weapons like cane guns. This brings us back to 16170(C) which states that a gun that is defined exempted by 17700 from 16590 must not be chambered in an available cartridge.
C also leads to 16531, which applies to whatever a precursor part is https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=16531

I have to have this argument with a seller/auction house every now and then so I have these penal codes handy. I have a feeling that 16170(C) was specifically written to confuse people.

 

[Gawernator]

This is wrong.

Anything made pre 1899 is antique. UNLESS it is an NFA item.... or was?? Not sure what the status is now with that stuff.

Even in CA 99.9% of all firearms made before 1899 are antiques. https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=16170
This defines antique, specifically A and B. C specifies weird stuff like wallet guns and cane guns.
C leads to 16590 https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=16590 which defines what isn't an antique if its chambered in available cartridges. And to 16531, which applies to whatever a precursor part is https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/faces/codes_displaySection.xhtml?lawCode=PEN&sectionNum=16531

I have to have this argument with a seller/auction house every now and then so I have these penal codes handy.

Nah it's not that the law is wrong, it's that OP is looking at the wrong text in the wrong context.

That definition only applies to 16531 and 17700. For the normal firearm/transfer definition, CA incorporates the federal antique definition, so an actual pre-1899 firearm is still an antique even if it's chambered in something commercially available like .308 or 8mm Mauser.

So for a normal 1895 Mauser, pre-1899 receiver = antique. The ammo availability issue matters in the narrower prohibited-weapon/NFA-type contexts.

 

[mrbieler]

You're fine. The age of the receiver dictates status. Modifications don't change that. California antique firearms law is a copy of the Federal definition.

The 1895 Chilean Mauser was 7mm.