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Rost Martin R1MF comes to Califnoria

Blew my Mind, Holosun is owned by the CCP/PLA

Gawernator said:
Is that like a poor man’s EOtech or something? Never heard of it. Save the money and just get a Chinese rep of the eotech magnifier and holo, same quality as holosun for less money most likely
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Its hard to deny it's a decent optic for about 1/3 the cost of the EOTech; dunno if I would call it the poor man's version. I don't have one, but I have used one before. I don't think it's build for field duty but most people aren't preparing for combat. Unless you equate being poor with voting with dollars and more in your wallet after, its a decent choice with a big site picture. I've moved away from the EOTech stuff - its heavy and while the site is easy to track, it chews up batteries constantly compared to anything else I use.

Buying American shouldn't have to mean taking something less capable or overspending.
 
Gawernator said:
Difference is that the iPhone is made by Apple, an American corporation. There is also no real substitute for their product (not buying Android lol RIP green bubble people).

Whereas optics are pretty interchangeable. Luckily I'm in a financial situation where paying a little more for an American brand like Trijicon with nicer fit and finish and made by other Americans is no factor.
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I understand the point you're trying to make here. But I would argue that there are no true economic substitutes for buyers that are in the sub $300 RDS market. Trijicon nor Aimpoint compete in that class. Vortex builds the entire Defender line in China so even though they are an American brand that competes in that segment, it is currently unknown who manufactures their red dots and how much engineering they actually do. For all we know the defender line is also made by Huanic.

So if the market only presents 3 options: chinese optics, trijicon / aimpoint, or don't buy a red dot... people are going to buy chinese optics. IMO it's the American brands that need to figure out how to produce an affordable product.
 
Vortex is best brand for optics (for me, and maybe others.) They manufactur from China, Philippines, Japan, and US. From cheap/affordable/great to US Socom used scopes, and now have contract with US Military to make the XM157. And backed by 100% no hassle Lifetime Warranty that follows the product, not the owner.

You may think, Primary Arms has similar warranty, but no they do not. Once you have warrantied an optic for replacement, they don't offer warranty on the new replacement or will ask you 99 questions and a motherless 🐐 is one.

You also may hear Vector optics or some optic company that doesn't have no condition lifetime warranty is OEM to Vortex. Don't believe the make-a-wish lies. Vector and others are OEM to each other's 1 year or so warrantied optics that are abundant with some shill reviews from C-Does or some "youtuber."

Holosun was the OEM to many or all China made Sig Sauer optics upto few years ago or so. They may still OEM to Sig on some optics maybe, not sure.
 
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Plenty_Pack_556 said:
Wrong. Vortex doesn't have OEM manufacturers for them.
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Okay since you seem to know Vortex's supply chain setup... who manufactures the defender line then? Does Vortex have a manufacturing facility in China or do they partner with an ODM? Does Vortex engineer the entire optic or does their ODM partner (if they have one) engineer some of it?
 
decius_mus said:
Okay since you seem to know Vortex's supply chain setup... who manufactures their optics then? Does Vortex have a manufacturing facility in China or do they partner with an ODM? Does Vortex engineer the entire optic or does their ODM partner (if they have one) engineer some of it?
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Vortex manufactures their own optics. Vortex manufacture facilities in China is overseen by Japanese optics experts. Their low end optics is manufactured Shanghai Changhong Optoelectronics, which is OEM to Swampfox, Riton, Truglo, Sightmark. Not Holosun.

Low end - Crossfire and Diamondback series.
 
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Plenty_Pack_556 said:
Vortex manufactures their own optics. Vortex manufacture facilities in China is overseen by Japanese optics experts. Their low end optics is manufactured Shanghai Changhong Optoelectronics, which is OEM to Swampfox, Riton, Truglo, Sightmark. Not Holosun.
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So in other words they don't manufacture their own optics.

I did a quick search of Shanghai Changhong Optoelectronics. Their parent company is called Sichuan Changhong Electric Co., Ltd. and their corporate HQ is in a high-tech zone. So if the vermilian article that OP posted is correct, they are also a state-sponsored firm.

baike.baidu.com

Sichuan Changhong Electric Co., Ltd.

Sichuan Changhong Electric Co., Ltd. (Sichuan Changhong Electric Co., Ltd. SH:600839) was founded in 1958 and was listed for trading on the Shanghai Stock Exchange in March 1994. It is a…
baike.baidu.com baike.baidu.com
 
decius_mus said:
Nothing in that link suggests that Vortex manufactures their own optics.
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High end scopes are manufactured and assembled in-house. AMG series.

Japan made scopes are made at Light Optical Works, which also makes Trijicon, Leica, and Tract scopes.

I guess I spoke too soon on my first post here (that's was the shill of me for Vortex Optics speaking, lol)
 
Everything china makes is made by the great leader Xi "Winnie the poo" jinping
China Xijinping GIF by euronews
 
In case you didn't know, many factories in China are either directly or indirectly owned by the PLA, and staffed by PLA soldiers during their enlistment. After their enlistment is finished, they usually return to the factory and are given their previous job back. Some of the profits are funneled directly back to the PLA, which is funded not through tax dollars but through exports. Its a genius move; China's enemies are directly paying for their military's development and expansion. So, everytime you buy something on Amazon, Walmart, or wherever that is made in China, you are likely directly contributing to the PLA's budget.

Lots of people get on their high horse and publically state that they only buy "American." But secretly they will buy China every single time if its $0.01 less.
 
Coolguy said:
Lots of people get on their high horse and publically state that they only buy "American." But secretly they will buy China every single time if its $0.01 less.
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that used to be the case, but now-a-days everyone knows China quality is based on what you are willing to pay for. It's no longer $0.01 If you want quality products, there's a price to it. The companies are not indirectly owned either. The country shifted with Xi to be more capitalism based with nationalism. We shifted from nationalism to capitalism, profits over people. This is especially noticeable in AI models. Chinese firms give it away, while US firms are at the opposite, but also with the optics.

Also, China funds education 4:1 military and has done so for over a decade. This is why their STEM graduates and technology boom hit in the last few years. Their engineering universities are producing more patents than ever before, even after US companies have been pulling out. If the US funded 4:1 education vs military, I'm sure we would also see a boom and not really need H1B's as much.

Coolguy said:
So, everytime you buy something on Amazon, Walmart, or wherever that is made in China, you are likely directly contributing to the PLA's budget.
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Some industries get subsidies, but they are not owned by the govt. You could say the same thing about the US buying American funds wars, it's just where you say it.

Just keep in mind to update with current trends. If you travel internationally a lot you'd see that the whole 👨🏻‍🎨t thing everyone is out for America, is a farce. The Chinese I see ( travelers ), are bougie af now. Social media made it more relevant for them where they are now aware that they have 1 billion people and have their own high society and interestingly, the gov't pushes back on being too extravagant. Their beauty standards and consumer standards are no longer looking towards the US to copy (drones, robotics, heavy industry). It's been amazing to see how much it's shifted over the last decade.

That's just my opinion from my observation.
 
mraccountant said:
Which is why I dumped all my American made cars and bought Japanese made Toyota 4x4s. And the U.S. made products that do have exceptional quality also carry an exceptional price tag.
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Teslas are the most American car made by parts, labor, and manufacturing, and the safest cars ever tested by NHTSA.

My '24 Model 3 Performance gets to 60 in under 3 seconds, drives itself using the best self-driving tech in the world which has now crossed North America (Canada and the U.S.) twice with no intervention, and it's about 60k.

FSD is $99 per month and 7x safer than human, with way faster reaction time, while seeing in all directions at once with zero impairment, emotion, or distraction compared to human drivers.

The Tesla Model 3 Standard RWD is under 37k new, and one doesn't even need to deal with dealer nonsense. Easy to buy by phone in 10 minutes or less. With FSD it's hard to beat that value for the most American car one can buy.

Unless your cars can drive themselves like a Tesla (they can't), your value proposition is way off.

Self-driving is quickly becoming an important metric for any new car purchase.
 
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