Build out vs Upgrade?

[Sevonic]

Hello everyone,

I've always liked guns/thought they were cool and when I started out when I was still in uni, I got into them thanks to milsurp stuff. These days though being 29 and selling most of my milsurp rifles (except for my K31, never selling that gun), I have a more "balanced" out collection now I would say.

I have a little cheap .22lr plinker I have fun with/something for my girlfriend or new people I bring to the range for the first time, an M1A that I built out as my "DMR/battle rifle" (yes, I know I could have gotten an AR-10, but hey, I like the look of an M1A), and my most recent purchase being my second ever handgun being a Kimber 2k11 I want to use for more serious handgun training/matches.

The topic of this thread though is something I would like to get some more opinions on. I do also have an AR-15, a Diamondback DB-15 I bought back in 2023 primarily just for the purpose of "might as well have an AR before the sin tax hits and I can find .223 or 5.56 in any gun store compared to trying to find 7.5 Swiss". At the moment, I have it partially built out. It's in a fixed mag (AR Maglock/Kingpin) configuration and I have a dot and a grip on it. I do enjoy shooting it and do so on a semi regular basis, but also, I have reached the point in time that I really do want to take shooting a lot more seriously. I am extremely fortunate to be working a job where it leaves me a fair amount of income to spend on my "hobbies", and I had an "epiphany" of sorts that I spent a good amount of money for both my M1A and as well as to acquire the 2k11 but I cheaped out pretty hard on the AR. Now however, I'm wondering if the money I would spend buying the rest of the accessories for the DB-15 would be better spent on just saving up for and getting a better AR-15 like a DDM4, LWRC or something like that.

I'd appreciate some honest opinions, but please keep the cynical replies to a minimum if possible, thanks!

 

[Tere_Hanges]

I wouldnt spend any money pimping out a DB15. At the end of the day its still a DB15. You should have bought a CHF G$ or Criterion barrel and a Mk16 or JP handguard to build your own upper. Thats what I did during last call before the barrel ban. All you need is a vise, upper vise block, $20 torque wrench and $18 breaker bar. These are all basic tools every man should already own.

 

[Sevonic]

I wouldnt spend any money pimping out a DB15. At the end of the day its still a DB15. You should have bought a CHF G$ or Criterion barrel and a Mk16 or JP handguard built your own upper. Thats what I did during last call before the barrel ban.

That's kinda where I'm at tbh, I do enjoy shooting it, but I am kinda on the mindset of I might just want to "start over" and get a gun that I know I won't need to worry about it potentially giving out on me after thousands of rounds. And especially during the time when I bought the DB before the sin tax came in, my mindset was more so "get an AR for the sake of having an AR".

 

[Smittty]

Hello everyone,

I've always liked guns/thought they were cool and when I started out when I was still in uni, I got into them thanks to milsurp stuff. These days though being 29 and selling most of my milsurp rifles (except for my K31, never selling that gun), I have a more "balanced" out collection now I would say.

I have a little cheap .22lr plinker I have fun with/something for my girlfriend or new people I bring to the range for the first time, an M1A that I built out as my "DMR/battle rifle" (yes, I know I could have gotten an AR-10, but hey, I like the look of an M1A), and my most recent purchase being my second ever handgun being a Kimber 2k11 I want to use for more serious handgun training/matches.

The topic of this thread though is something I would like to get some more opinions on. I do also have an AR-15, a Diamondback DB-15 I bought back in 2023 primarily just for the purpose of "might as well have an AR before the sin tax hits and I can find .223 or 5.56 in any gun store compared to trying to find 7.5 Swiss". At the moment, I have it partially built out. It's in a fixed mag (AR Maglock/Kingpin) configuration and I have a dot and a grip on it. I do enjoy shooting it and do so on a semi regular basis, but also, I have reached the point in time that I really do want to take shooting a lot more seriously. I am extremely fortunate to be working a job where it leaves me a fair amount of income to spend on my "hobbies", and I had an "epiphany" of sorts that I spent a good amount of money for both my M1A and as well as to acquire the 2k11 but I cheaped out pretty hard on the AR. Now however, I'm wondering if the money I would spend buying the rest of the accessories for the DB-15 would be better spent on just saving up for and getting a better AR-15 like a DDM4, LWRC or something like that.

I'd appreciate some honest opinions, but please keep the cynical replies to a minimum if possible, thanks!

My experience with AR's is that all mil spec guns are decent and I have not seen such a difference in performance from a service grade to high end to justify the cost.

Something I look for are barrels that are precisely centered in the handguard and it has been rare to find a perfect one regardless of cost.

Several months ago a found one by Aero Precision, pencil barrel and kodiak brown, with perfectly centered barrel. I bought it and tested it on my old basic mil spec lower and it shoots so well/accurate that I chased down a matching kodiak brown lower, 2+ hours away because of that upper.

If your AR shoots, I wouldn't upgrade just to get a more marketed brand. If it doesn't impress you then ya, keep searching!

 

[Sevonic]

My experience with AR's is that all mil spec guns are decent and I have not seen such a difference in performance from a service grade to high end to justify the cost.

Something I look for are barrels that are precisely centered in the handguard and it has been rare to find a perfect one regardless of cost.

Several months ago a found one by Aero Precision, pencil barrel and kodiak brown, with perfectly centered barrel. I bought it and tested it on my old basic mil spec lower and it shoots so well/accurate that I chased down a matching kodiak brown lower, 2+ hours away because of that upper.

If your AR shoots, I wouldn't upgrade just to get a more marketed brand. If it doesn't impress you then ya, keep searching!

That's fair too! I am a big believer of the adage of "if it works for you, then damned what people say." That being said, I do also think I could have spent a bit more to get a gun that legitimately might have a few areas of improvement taking aside brand name hype and before hitting that ceiling of diminishing returns.

 

[Tere_Hanges]

To be clear your DB15 should serve you just fine for a general purpose AR. Theres nothing wrong with it. Its just nice to have another AR or upper with a premium barrel in it. Stay away from DD. Massively over priced and not any more accurate than what you already have. G$ and Criterion are worth the extra cost IMHO. And not as crazy expensive as say Proof Research. You could also just go with a nice stainless Ballistic Advantage barrel or upper if you want something a little nicer but very affordable.

 

[Sevonic]

To be clear your DB15 should serve you just fine for a general purpose AR. Theres nothing wrong with it. Its just nice to have another AR or upper with a premium barrel in it. Stay away from DD. Massively over priced and not any more accurate than what you already have. G$ and Criterion are worth the extra cost IMHO. And not as crazy expensive as say Proof Research. You could also just go with a nice stainless Ballistic Advantage barrel or upper if you want something a little nicer but very affordable.

Appreciate the advice thanks, I'll be sure to do my homework. As far as listing out DD, that was more so an example of me just listing out a "premium" brand that for the most part, I usually see people really liking and if I were to get one, I would have waited for the one I want to get to pop up on here so I can PPT it without paying any additional taxes on it. I've not heard of G$ before and searching it up gives me some really ty AI results from google that I'm sure are not what you're talking about, could you give me a link to their website so I can go and take a look?

 

[Tere_Hanges]

G$ =Geissele

 

[Sevonic]

G$ =Geissele

Gotcha, thanks!

 

[SES07]

I'm pretty new to the AR platform. I built my AR15 over a year period in around 2020 and last year built an AR10 over about 6 months span. Anyway both are AERO Precision Uppers and lowers. I have around 4 or 500 rounds through the 15 and around 1 or 300 through the 10. Both with zero issues at all. If you have the time and are not in a rush I would say put something together your self. Do the research and get the trigger you want, the grip, the site/dot, etc. Its really fun and rewarding. You also get to know a lot more about the platform and how everything functions. Then you can always swap out or upgrade anything you want at any time. I was lucky to do this before the new laws and just bought the striped lower and was able to buy everything else online. I wish I had knowing about this site at the time and probably could have saved some money. I think if you got a lower on here and kept your eye out on here you could build something really cool and not have to deal with having to much shipped to you. I would definitely just hold onto your DB and have it as a backup. Its always good to have extra parts. If anything ever went wrong with your new one you could swap in the BCG, firing pin or whatever. I'm trying not to start another build despite wanting to so bad just cause I can’t justify it to the wife haha.
Just my 2 cents.

 

[Sevonic]

I'm pretty new to the AR platform. I built my AR15 over a year period in around 2020 and last year built an AR10 over about 6 months span. Anyway both are AERO Precision Uppers and lowers. I have around 4 or 500 rounds through the 15 and around 1 or 300 through the 10. Both with zero issues at all. If you have the time and are not in a rush I would say put something together your self. Do the research and get the trigger you want, the grip, the site/dot, etc. Its really fun and rewarding. You also get to know a lot more about the platform and how everything functions. Then you can always swap out or upgrade anything you want at any time. I was lucky to do this before the new laws and just bought the striped lower and was able to buy everything else online. I wish I had knowing about this site at the time and probably could have saved some money. I think if you got a lower on here and kept your eye out on here you could build something really cool and not have to deal with having to much shipped to you. I would definitely just hold onto your DB and have it as a backup. Its always good to have extra parts. If anything ever went wrong with your new one you could swap in the BCG, firing pin or whatever. I'm trying not to start another build despite wanting to so bad just cause I can’t justify it to the wife haha.
Just my 2 cents.

Appreciate your comment man! Yeah, part of me just wants to be lazy and just buy a complete rifle. Or just buy a complete lower and upper separately, but I totally get what you're saying that there's value in figuring out the process your own by picking out every detail. It's the same in my other hobby of playing guitar and when I tried doing a parts-caster build. Totally different experience

 

[Deleted member 16735]

even a cheap AR barrel shooting 556 will last ~8k rounds so just shoot it. Unless it has completely heinous accuracy. Those boutique 3k dollar ARs don't actually do anything your cheap one doesn't, they often aren't even more accurate. They probably have a better BCG and barrel but you can replace that when you need it. Daniel Defense guns are 100% for instant-gram cred.

 

[SES07]

Appreciate your comment man! Yeah, part of me just wants to be lazy and just buy a complete rifle. Or just buy a complete lower and upper separately, but I totally get what you're saying that there's value in figuring out the process your own by picking out every detail. It's the same in my other hobby of playing guitar and when I tried doing a parts-caster build. Totally different experience

Funny you should say that. My main thing is being a guitarist. I've been playing my whole life. My dad is a guitarist and a luthier, he owns his own shop and everything. I have built a few frankenstrats and yes it is exactly like that.

 

[Tere_Hanges]

even a cheap AR barrel shooting 556 will last ~8k rounds so just shoot it. Unless it has completely heinous accuracy. Those boutique 3k dollar ARs don't actually do anything your cheap one doesn't, they often aren't even more accurate. They probably have a better BCG and barrel but you can replace that when you need it. Daniel Defense guns are 100% for instant-gram cred.

Yup I agree. I've owned a lot of budget AR15 builds over the years from PSA, BA, Delton, S&W, Ruger, Windham Weaponry. And quite a few Colt milspec uppers. Theyve all worked fine, pretty much all the same. The one premium upper I splurged on was a Daniel Defense DDM4V7 that didnt even come with a BCG. So far I am not impressed at all. Its not anymore accurate or reliable than a PSA. But for the price you would think it should be. The handguard is very light. Thats the only thing thats nice about it. But again way overpriced for a handguard, especially when you can get a tough as nails G$ mk16 for a lot less. I tried putting a 1-8x optic on it to make it a recce gun but i just wasnt getting the results I wanted. So now It just has a red dot on it and it will be my 50yd HD/Patrol carbine. Every AR that goes bang will print 1" groups at 50yds.

After being burned by the one "premium" DD upper, I was hesitant to spend again on any premium AR brands. But with new barrel law coming, I decided to give G$ a try so I bought one of their barrels and a Mk16 handguard and built my own upper with a DSA M4 upper receiver. And I couldnt be more impressed. I put a 4x Leupold on it and Im getting subMOA with crappy Sterling Turkish 556 M193 loads.

So based on my recent experience, I think G$ barrels are well worth the price. They arent even that expensive. I got a 16" carbine gas barrel for $200ish. Its CHF and chromelined and shoots sub moa. Thats a damn good deal. Whereas DD barrels are crazy expensive for mediocre accuracy. They are a waste of money IMHO. I'll take a cheap PSA freedom nitride barrel over a DD any day.

G$ knows how to make an accurate gun barrel. DD should stick to making handguards. Based on my very small sample, their barrels arent worth a darn.

 

[Jimi Jah]

Barrel, trigger and optics are what counts.

The rest is window dressing.

 

[SES07]

Barrel, trigger and optics are what counts.

The rest is window dressing.

I agree. I would maybe add that a good BCG is important also. I kind of see the BCG as the heart of an AR.

 

[9mmContagion]

I’d buy a Mitchel Defense and be done. After that I’d start maybe start upgrading the DB if you still wish

 

[Smittty]

Buy a decent upper and assemble the lower.

The no logo aero precision lower is decent and has a couple details that make it better than typical mil spec imo.

It has a tension screw built in to eliminate any play between the upper and lower, and a shaped set screw instead of roll pin for the bolt release. I’d recommend checking them out.

 

[ar15robert]

IMO the lower is just the frame kind of like an engine block.It is what you put inside that makes the gun.The plus of building it is that you can make it the way you want it.A good barrel and trigger is what makes the gun,

I have an armalite and may have damaged the tip of barrel removing the pinned brake it had to put an a2 flashhider,Will be getting the barrel cut 1/2 tp 3/4 inch but that gun shot so well.Also a colt 1991 commander i think i may have refinished and sine upgrades have had both these guns for 30 years.