Burden of Proof and Freedom Week Magazines

[Bobalover209]

Great course of action here. He was very helpful during those 2 or 3 ammo freedom days we had a while back as well.

You have to be careful which you are referring to. I am not knowledgeable about any that happened over a year ago (if any).

The most recent one a few months ago was actually not a real ammo freedom period. Many vendors jumped the gun and shipped ammo directly to non-FFL03/COE holders, but it turned out it was illegal to do so. Many buyers had their orders cancelled, the ones that went through technically would be considered illegal importation of ammo into the state.

 

[Dohboy]

Reno May nails this topic on his YouTube channel. Smart man, fantastic lawyer.

Just a Youtuber, not a lawyer.

 

[PlinkyDinky]

"over 500 rounds of high powered ammunition"

Pff, that's when you know it's time to re-order!

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Pff, that's when you know it's time to re-order!

Already too late

 

[Legasov]

Just a Youtuber, not a lawyer.

Lol I know

 

[Legasov]

 

[Legasov]

I'll give you my slightly shortened piece of advice. No LEO will care if you have proof of lawful purchase or receipts of said magazines, they can take them if they find you with them. LE have an extreme amount of discretion and many of them do not understand gun laws.

 

[ar15robert]

Like said some dont know mags are dated.I have some Okay mags from way back and they have 80s dates they are in the inside BTW.Not sure if legal anymore in ca to buy replacement parts for mags ??

I left ca 6 years ago but did leave a couple of usgi mags with early 90s stamp dates there since you can no longer take out of state then back.I still go atleast once a year to camp and shoot with family in the desert there so if mags get taken for some reason ill just get another when i get home for 10 bucks.But some newer handguns i had to block a mag for use there.Actually 2 of them took my canik mc9 15 round and made it a 10.Left the 12 alone and stays home when i take it there.

 

[Joker67]

there are also some other red flags to consider. For example claiming Freedom Week with your P365 standard mags, when the gun wasn't available to purchase till the back half of 2018 and took till 2023 to make the Roster.

The P365 was introduced January 2018 and was available during Freedom Week. It was my 3rd gun purchase and was off roster at the time. The 10 and now discontinued 15 round magazines were available. The 12 and 17 rounders came out later. At that time I bought mags for guns I didn’t own yet and got hard to find mags like 12 and 14 round P229 .40 mags. I bought full size CZ 75 mags and didn’t yet own a full size CZ. Same with Glocks. Had the mags long before I had the guns.

Red flags are for wusses. I have not publicly shot a ten round mag since Freedom week. I’ve had FUDD RO’s give me looks at public ranges but no one blinks in non public ranges or classes. I shoot at public ranges only when I have to and have never had an issue. I carried 15 round mags in a P-01 and G19 with the blessing of the IA until recent hysteria.

 

[CadeH]

I've seen some metal mags, can't recall the manufacturer (FN?), that had the date etched into the side in mm/yy format.

For the most part, metal mags are clear of date marks compared to polymer ones.

I have D&H and Surefeed mags (metal) with the date printed on them. My Lancer mags (Polymer) do as well.

None of my AK mags besides a PMag have dates on them, both surplus and commerical eastern bloc.

 

[five.five-six]

Ask my lawyer we had to say and this is what he told me:

 

[FX-05 Xiuhcoatl]

Second, how many people know that manufacture dates are molded into most mags? Try telling them you got a mag manufactured in January during freedom week.

I deleted all mold dates on my magpul and hex mags. Just to be a dk.

 

[tenemae]

California's Statute of Limitations, which is six years

6 year SoL for a misdemeanor? Are you sure? That's usually the length of a felony. Misdemeanor is usually 1 year

 

[RickD427]

6 year SoL for a misdemeanor? Are you sure? That's usually the length of a felony. Misdemeanor is usually 1 year

Nope. It's six years for a felony. the unlawful acquisition of a large-capacity magazine is a felony. Because it's a felony, the SOL is six years. Say it with me - "the illegal acquisition of a large-capacity magazine is a felony"

Please refer to Penal Code section 32310(a) and note the penalty provisions.

 

[grandpapeepap]

dang birdman underlined felony 4 times in one message, i feel like this is him trying to tell us something

 

[tenemae]

Please refer to Penal Code section 32310(a) and note the penalty provisions.

Ahh, so that's what "or imprisonment pursuant to subdivision (h) of Section 1170" means. Interesting. Now I know.

Holy crap that's crazy how they turn everything into a wobbler.

 

[BARvS]

Alright, finally back to read all this, 35 replies haha. I love how active this forum is!

Just delete this post lmfao everyone knows what you’re gonna do

Nah I'm genuinely curious. I have no problem telling you guys if I plan to do something illegal, lol, just check my other post. I don't even think the ban is going to be around much longer. SCOTUS will strike it down soon enough, IMO.

Second, how many people know that manufacture dates are molded into most mags? Try telling them you got a mag manufactured in January during freedom week.

I thought it was more likely than not but still pretty common to see non-date marked mags.

On the other hand, if the DA does not have concrete evidence of you acquiring the magazine, then you don't even need to be as specific as saying "Freedom Week". All you need to say "prove that it was less than 3 years ago, I dare you". That argument in and of itself should convince a jury.

In practice, much of this doesn't matter. If the crime of acquiring a large-capacity magazine is all the DA has, the case would never go to trial, just not worth it. In reality, those cases would always be settled, with a plea deal. Or with a confiscation: LE just takes the magazine and destroys it, and you get to pay some court costs. If the large-capacity magazine is part of a larger case (with many other charges), then it really depends on the other charges. A typical example would be the other charges being: possession of a stolen vehicle, driving without a license, possession of drugs in a quantity for sale, and DUI because of methamphetamine. A guy I know had those charges, plus a sawed-off shotgun, and was convicted to a year in jail.

I think this mixes two separate issues, right? Acquisition vs possession. The statute of limitations matters for proving recent illegal acquisition and possession alone doesn't prove when it was acquired, but freedom week isn't irrelevant because the law separately deals with possession, and freedom week order is still the reason the Mar 29 - April 5 mags are treated differently. Basically, I think freedom week is still relevant for possession, but maybe not acquisition. @RickD427

Notably when this topic comes up we all refer to that one case that was never tried. Everything is in limbo waiting for Duncan. Bottom line is there is no black and white answer, some jurisdictions will allow any magazine on your CCW and another will confiscate them.

I also think it's weird that a good friend of mine bought his first gun in San Mateo county during 2020 from a local gun store and he got 17rd mags with it. Police have even inspected it and just handed it back. Never fully understood how bought it and how the police didn't take it from him at the very least. Anyone know?

 

[Enthused]

You have to be careful which you are referring to. I am not knowledgeable about any that happened over a year ago (if any).

The most recent one a few months ago was actually not a real ammo freedom period. Many vendors jumped the gun and shipped ammo directly to non-FFL03/COE holders, but it turned out it was illegal to do so. Many buyers had their orders cancelled, the ones that went through technically would be considered illegal importation of ammo into the state.

Many thousands of orders went through. And Reno May was correct about everything surrounding the incident in question, which is what I was referring to when I said Reno May was helpful for not only the ammo situation, but also when I agreed when he was referred to as helpful and knowledgeable on magazine freedom week as well.

 

[AR15barrels]

First of all, the injunction was on enforcing the import/transfer ban during freedom week. IIRC, there's a separate statute that treats 10+ mags as nuisances the can be confiscated (+$100 fine? Or am I hallucinating that), regardless of how acquired.
Second, how many people know that manufacture dates are molded into most mags? Try telling them you got a mag manufactured in January during freedom week.
Third, what's the statute of limitations on that? One year? So if you got your mag more than 1 year ago, it sorta doesn't matter how.

The statute of limitations on the felony violations of PC32310 (importing, manufacturing, selling) is 3 years.
The statute of limitations on the misdemeanor violations (possession) is 1 year.
This used to be clearly spelled out in PC, but I can't find it anymore.
Maybe it was removed during one of the revisions.

 

[AR15barrels]

The P365 was introduced January 2018 and was available during Freedom Week. It was my 3rd gun purchase and was off roster at the time. The 10 and now discontinued 15 round magazines were available. The 12 and 17 rounders came out later. At that time I bought mags for guns I didn’t own yet and got hard to find mags like 12 and 14 round P229 .40 mags. I bought full size CZ 75 mags and didn’t yet own a full size CZ. Same with Glocks. Had the mags long before I had the guns.

I still have mags for all sorts of subguns and machine guns in cosmoline that I purchased before the 2000 law went into effect that I have not gotten around to obtaining the guns for.
Many are still in the original shipping boxes with the receipts and that would definitely show that they are grandfathered pre-2000 per the PC.