California man arrested and charged for possessing JHPs and standard capacity magazines

[john_marsten_1873]

He was arrested for robbery and got the gun stuff added on… ultimately pretty sus moving around with all that two days before the president gets there

"Taele was arrested on suspicion of carrying a concealed firearm and possession of armor-piercing or otherwise prohibited ammunition, the sheriff’s department said."

No doubt that casing the course was problematic and clearly had some stuff that's technically illegal. However, MOST of the stuff they mentioned is not definitively illegal. And if you're on the outside looking in, you should be worried about anyone who carries hollow points.

 

[miles888]

"Taele was arrested on suspicion of carrying a concealed firearm and possession of armor-piercing or otherwise prohibited ammunition, the sheriff’s department said."

No doubt that casing the course was problematic and clearly had some stuff that's technically illegal. However, MOST of the stuff they mentioned is not definitively illegal. And if you're on the outside looking in, you should be worried about anyone who carries hollow points.

The SBR was enough for them to say what else you got. He should have pinned it.

I don’t know why the hollow points were even brought up outside of fear mongering, they’re totally legal.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

The SBR was enough for them to say what else you got. He should have pinned it.

I don’t know why the hollow points were even brought up outside of fear mongering, they’re totally legal.

It was the loaded, concealed (in his car) handgun, in addition to the JHP loaded mag they found on him and perhaps the suspected robbery.
The only illegal thing they found in his house was the unregistered/illegally modified SBR and the standard cap mags.

 

[Gawernator]

He's cooked, gonna be in state and federal prisons for decades. Good.

 

[miles888]

It was the loaded, concealed (in his car) handgun, in addition to the JHP loaded mag they found on him and perhaps the suspected robbery.
The only illegal thing they found in his house was the unregistered/illegally modified SBR and the standard cap mags.

To me it sounds like he was casing the golf course potentially trying to ambush the president, plus the stuff you mentioned.

I think as long as you aren’t casing the presidents golf course, or being a criminal in general, there’s nothing to be worried about.

 

[Gawernator]

To me it sounds like he was casing the golf course potentially trying to ambush the president, plus the stuff you mentioned.

I think as long as you aren’t casing the presidents golf course, or being a criminal in general, there’s nothing to be worried about.

Another whackjob put away

 

[john_marsten_1873]

To me it sounds like he was casing the golf course potentially trying to ambush the president, plus the stuff you mentioned.

I think as long as you aren’t casing the presidents golf course, or being a criminal in general, there’s nothing to be worried about.

Honestly, there's a lot of inconsistency of what's being reported by both the "news" and the authorities that I'm not really trusting the narrative. And there's certainly an attempt to create a narrative.

There's no charges of conspiracy of terroristic threats and few specifics on exactly how he was casing the place.

I probably wouldn't care all that much if they just said he had an illegally concealed handgun in his car and they found an unregistered SBR during a home search. But the hollow points, "possession of armor-piercing or otherwise prohibited ammunition" along with all the other basic, perfectly legal stuff is creates a narrative that is harmful to responsible gun owners.

Many of the less informed of the population are going to run around screaming "he was carrying armor-piercing hollow points and had bulk rifle and pistol ammo in his home "

Further details:

• Golf club staff recognized him from the earlier visit and notified federal agents.
• He approached the agents himself.
• He claimed he worked for the U.S. State Department and was there for a security detail.
• He acknowledged that he had a loaded firearm in his truck parked in the club parking lot.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/downey-man-who-was-arrested-loaded-pistol-trump-golf-club-charged-federal-complaint

 

[Gawernator]

Honestly, there's a lot of inconsistency of what's being reported by both the "news" and the authorities that I'm not really trusting the narrative. And there's certainly an attempt to create a narrative.

There's no charges of conspiracy of terroristic threats and few specifics on exactly how he was casing the place.

I probably wouldn't care all that much if they just said he had an illegally concealed handgun in his car and they found an unregistered SBR during a home search. But the hollow points, "possession of armor-piercing or otherwise prohibited ammunition" along with all the other basic, perfectly legal stuff is creates a narrative that is harmful to responsible gun owners.

Many of the less informed of the population are going to run around screaming "he was carrying armor-piercing hollow points and had "bulk rifle and pistol ammo in his home "

Well you didn't even understand basic laws about deleting CSAM off your phone when inspected at CBP per your deleted post. Not surprising this situation confuses you

 

[RickD427]

There's no charges of conspiracy of terroristic threats and few specifics on exactly how he was casing the place.

I haven't seen anything in the media reports that would support charges of Conspiracy or Criminal Threats (California changed the terminology many years ago).

Conspiracy is a crime that requires two, or more, persons to act with the intent to commit a crime, and to take an overt act toward the commission of the crime. All of the available reports show that the suspect acted alone.

The California state crime of Criminal Threats (PC 422) requires that the suspect make a threat of death of great bodily injury, that the threat be made verbally, in writing, or by electronic communication, and with the specific intent that the threat be so taken by the victim, and that the victim be placed in sustained fear that the threat will actually be carried out. In this case no threat was actually made verbally, in writing, or by electronic communication. The suspect's actions may have been considered as threatening, but the statute does not cover threatening actions.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I haven't seen anything in the media reports that would support charges of Conspiracy or Criminal Threats (California changed the terminology many years ago).

Conspiracy is a crime that requires two, or more, persons to act with the intent to commit a crime, and to take an overt act toward the commission of the crime. All of the available reports show that the suspect acted alone.

The California state crime of Criminal Threats (PC 422) requires that the suspect make a threat of death of great bodily injury, that the threat be made verbally, in writing, or by electronic communication, and with the specific intent that the threat be so taken by the victim, and that the victim be placed in sustained fear that the threat will actually be carried out. In this case no threat was actually made verbally, in writing, or by electronic communication. The suspect's actions may have been considered as threatening, but the statute does not cover threatening actions.

Obviously, I don’t know the actual laws but my point was that the only actual charges are firearms related - besides the robbery prior. They just tried to make it seem like the guy was a one man army with mostly basic stuff. They didn't even say whether or not he permitted to carry concealed.

 

[11thfinger]

Well you didn't even understand basic laws about deleting CSAM off your phone when inspected at CBP per your deleted post. Not surprising this situation confuses you

wtf did you just make me google

 

[john_marsten_1873]

"Taele was arrested on suspicion of carrying a concealed firearm and possession of armor-piercing or otherwise prohibited ammunition"

So the "possession of armor-piercing or otherwise prohibited ammunition" (the hollow points) was why he was arrested.
There was no warrant and he wasn't actually charged (he was being investigated) for the robbery until thearrest.

https://www.justice.gov/usao-cdca/pr/downey-man-who-was-arrested-loaded-pistol-trump-golf-club-charged-federal-complaint

Sequence of events from

1. Taele approached federal agents, said he was with the U.S. State Department on a security detail
2. Agents determined he was not affiliated with the State Department
3. They contacted the LASD
4. During the encounter, Taele admitted that he had a firearm in his truck parked in the lot

The publicly available documents do not say:

• that an officer asked, “Do you have any weapons?”
• that he was required to volunteer the information under California law; or
• what prompted him to disclose the firearm

 

[RickD427]

Obviously, I don’t know the actual laws but my point was that the only actual charges are firearms related - besides the robbery prior. They just tried to make it seem like the guy was a one man army with mostly basic stuff. They didn't even say whether or not he permitted to carry concealed.

John, I get your point. Media reports are typically tailored for public consumption and generally don't do a good job of meeting the informational requirements of readers with some background in the law. The media is partly to blame, but the LE agencies also are not particularly forthcoming with detailed information. There's an old adage that holds "Information comes three ways: Fast, Accurate, and Complete - You can any two of these that you desire." Initial releases of law enforcement information favor the the "Fast" and "Accurate." You generally need to wait a while for the "Complete."

 

[john_marsten_1873]

John, I get your point. Media reports are typically tailored for public consumption and generally don't do a good job of meeting the informational requirements of readers with some background in the law. The media is partly to blame, but the LE agencies also are not particularly forthcoming with detailed information. There's an old adage that holds "Information comes three ways: Fast, Accurate, and Complete - You can any two of these that you desire." Initial releases of law enforcement information favor the the "Fast" and "Accurate." You generally need to wait a while for the "Complete."

I get that they have to justify detaining him for suspicious activity, especially when it's related to POTUS security. He was casing the place, lied and said he worked for the state department (but no charges on that).

But I what I don't understand is:

- Arrested on "possession of armor-piercing or otherwise prohibited ammunition"

Home search

• An illegally modified AR platform rifle - illegal
• High-capacity magazines - maybe illegal
• Multiple notebooks containing concerning statements - no charges or other info

They weren't thorough about other info so why be thorough about this:

• A 1911 .45 caliber pistol
• An AR platform upper receiver
• Body armor
• Bulk pistol and rifle ammunition
• Two radio signal devices

 

[Gawernator]

wtf did you just make me google

This pedophile guy got stopped at the border for inspection and deleted CSAM off his phone allegedly. Marsten made a long post defending the pedo and the replies correcting him embarrassed him so much he deleted the post haha

 

[Gawernator]

I get that they have to justify detaining him for suspicious activity, especially when it's related to POTUS security. He was casing the place, lied and said he worked for the state department (but no charges on that).

But I what I don't understand is:

- Arrested on "possession of armor-piercing or otherwise prohibited ammunition"

Home search

• An illegally modified AR platform rifle - illegal
• High-capacity magazines - maybe illegal
• Multiple notebooks containing concerning statements - no charges or other info

They weren't thorough about other info so why be thorough about this:

• A 1911 .45 caliber pistol
• An AR platform upper receiver
• Body armor
• Bulk pistol and rifle ammunition
• Two radio signal devices

Reporters and journalists get information wrong all the time. Not sure why you’re acting all surprised especially with gun information that they don’t understand. Wait 72 hours and information will be more correct

 

[RickD427]

I get that they have to justify detaining him for suspicious activity, especially when it's related to POTUS security. He was casing the place, lied and said he worked for the state department (but no charges on that).

But I what I don't understand is:

- Arrested on "possession of armor-piercing or otherwise prohibited ammunition"

Home search

• An illegally modified AR platform rifle - illegal
• High-capacity magazines - maybe illegal
• Multiple notebooks containing concerning statements - no charges or other info

They weren't thorough about other info so why be thorough about this:

• A 1911 .45 caliber pistol
• An AR platform upper receiver
• Body armor
• Bulk pistol and rifle ammunition
• Two radio signal devices

I also would like to know more about the ammunition charge. There's been a lot of speculation that the ammo may have been SS109/M855 (not illegal to possess in California), but there's been no specific information reported about the subject ammo. It's quite possible that the ammo discovered was armor-piercing and of handgun caliber, or had an explosive component. We don't know yet.

The large-capacity magazines are definitely illegal (please refer to Penal Code section 32310(b)). What is unique here is that a federal court order currently prevents prosecution for the criminal possession of large-capacity magazines under PC 32310(b), but does allow prosecution for the importing or manufacturing of large-capacity magazines under PC 32310(a). Please note that the federal court injunction does make it legal to possess large-capacity magazines, it only prevents prosecution. Mr. "CadeH" was good enough to pay great expense to access the state charges and reported that PC 32310(a) was filed.

I'm hard-pressed to think of any state law charges that would be supported by notebook text, so long as he was acting alone. The writings in notebooks may be useful for context presentation to a court. The same is true for the other items. They may not be illegal in, and of, themselves, but may provide context for the criminal charges.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I also would like to know more about the ammunition charge. There's been a lot of speculation that the ammo may have been SS109/M855 (not illegal to possess in California), but there's been no specific information reported about the subject ammo. It's quite possible that the ammo discovered was armor-piercing and of handgun caliber, or had an explosive component. We don't know yet.

The large-capacity magazines are definitely illegal (please refer to Penal Code section 32310(b)). What is unique here is that a federal court order currently prevents prosecution for the criminal possession of large-capacity magazines under PC 32310(b), but does allow prosecution for the importing or manufacturing of large-capacity magazines under PC 32310(a). Please note that the federal court injunction does make it legal to possess large-capacity magazines, it only prevents prosecution. Mr. "CadeH" was good enough to pay great expense to access the state charges and reported that PC 32310(a) was filed.

I'm hard-pressed to think of any state law charges that would be supported by notebook text, so long as he was acting alone. The writings in notebooks may be useful for context presentation to a court. The same is true for the other items. They may not be illegal in, and of, themselves, but may provide context for the criminal charges.

I don't think there was any actual AP ammo found at all. Technically, he wasn't doing anything illegal at the range. It's a public range and there's no law (I'm guessing) against taking pictures of secret service.

It only says the reason for arrest was "...possession of armor-piercing or otherwise prohibited ammunition". My thinking is the the "otherwise prohibited ammunition" here is the "technically, he's not doing anything illegal but we need something to arrest him on and search his vehicle and home vehicle for".

Maybe the same with the robbery charge as there was no warrant or current charges, just a purported "investigation". Perhaps a reason to search his home.

Maybe LASD says hollow points are illegal in this county (like SF) or that's what we'll say to get the arrest but won't charge that.

There's nothing to indicated whether or not he bought the large-cap mags during freedom week (that's a state level charge) so I'm thinking we'll have to see if that sticks but I could be wrong on that.

 

[RickD427]

I don't think there was any actual AP ammo found at all. Technically, he wasn't doing anything illegal at the range. It's a public range and there's no law (I'm guessing) against taking pictures of secret service.

It only says the reason for arrest was "...possession of armor-piercing or otherwise prohibited ammunition". My thinking is the the "otherwise prohibited ammunition" here is the "technically, he's not doing anything illegal but we need something to arrest him on and search his vehicle and home vehicle for".

Maybe the same with the robbery charge as there was no warrant or current charges, just a purported "investigation". Perhaps a reason to search his home.

Maybe LASD says hollow points are illegal in this county (like SF) or that's what we'll say to get the arrest but won't charge that.

There's nothing to indicated whether or not he bought the large-cap mags during freedom week (that's a state level charge) so I'm thinking we'll have to see if that sticks but I could be wrong on that.

John, There's still a lot of speculating going on there. Me thinks that we're going to have to wait for some detail. Key to that issue is that we still don't know what was the ammunition that prompted the initial arrest.

I agree that there is no state charge that would address his surveillance activity at the golf course, but its important to remember that the nice deputies and Secret Service agents at the scene are performing both security and law enforcement functions. They're not the same.

I'm retired from LASD and spent the last five years of my service there maintaining our operational policies. There is no criminal issue presented by the simple possession of JHP ammo.

It doesn't matter if he bought the large-capacity magazines during "Freedom Week." Under PC 32310(b) they're still illegal to possess, even if acquired during "Freedom Week" or previously. Nothing has yet occurred to remove the criminal status of such possession from PC 32310(b). All that has occurred is that there is now an injunction prohibiting enforcement. But the suspect here was charged with PC 32310(a) which requires evidence that he either imported or manufactured the large-capacity magazines.

 

[Deleted member 48331]

There was a case out of SF that I don't feel like looking up that went through the 9th, the result was that it's ok for a city to ban sales of hollowpoints but not possession.

Are you sure? I can't find info about that.

Google AI said this:

If you are thinking of a specific Second Amendment case. A well-known Ninth Circuit case on hollowpoints is United States v. Miller (1939) which is Supreme Court, or more recently, Wrenn v. District of Columbia (D.C. Circuit) or New York State Rifle & Pistol Ass'n v. Bruen (Supreme Court, 2022), which struck down NYC's "proper cause" requirement but did not specifically address a sale vs. possession distinction for hollowpoints in the manner described. The Ninth Circuit did uphold California's ban on the sale of large-capacity magazines in Duncan v. Becerra (2018), but that was about magazines, not hollowpoints.