Legal Can you go over 5 sales a year if the extras are sold to someone out of state?

[Ryan Gosling]

Title. Im reaching my 5 transactions for the year and wondering if I can sell 1 or 2 more and ship em to a buyer out of state. Do i have to report these sales on CFARS or something?

 

[p--and--p]

Nope, just ship em out of state from california.. The 5 is in person within the state

 

[Ryan Gosling]

Nope, just ship em out of state from california.. The 5 is in person within the state

thats good to know, thanks

 

[Atomic Soldier]

I was told by my ffl that sales on GunBroker and shipped out of state don't count

 

[cali_jazz]

Nope, just ship em out of state from california.. The 5 is in person within the state

I don't think that's correct. An out-of-state GunBroker sale shipped to an FFL isn't a California PPT, but the five-transaction rule isn't written as a five-PPT or five-in-person-sales limit. PC 16730 defines “infrequent” as fewer than six transactions per calendar year and defines a transaction as a single “sale, lease, or transfer” of any number of firearms. It doesn't say the transaction has to occur in person or within California. PC 27895 also specifically addresses a California resident selling or transferring a firearm to an out-of-state FFL, so California law clearly recognizes this as a sale/transfer.

If there's some other provision that excludes an out-of-state sale from the transaction count I'd like to see it, I haven't found one.

 

[Atomic Soldier]

Off topic, but I've been wanting to ask. OP, are you still married to Eva Mendes?

 

[chiroken007]

I don't think that's correct. An out-of-state GunBroker sale shipped to an FFL isn't a California PPT, but the five-transaction rule isn't written as a five-PPT or five-in-person-sales limit. PC 16730 defines “infrequent” as fewer than six transactions per calendar year and defines a transaction as a single “sale, lease, or transfer” of any number of firearms. It doesn't say the transaction has to occur in person or within California. PC 27895 also specifically addresses a California resident selling or transferring a firearm to an out-of-state FFL, so California law clearly recognizes this as a sale/transfer.

If there's some other provision that excludes an out-of-state sale from the transaction count I'd like to see it, I haven't found one.

If there is no DROS involved, how would CA know? Or am I mistaken on that.

 

[echo1]

Technically it counts against your 5 sales. Hard to track without an audit, "Where's this rifle" says the DOJ? PAX

 

[cali_jazz]

If there is no DROS involved, how would CA know? Or am I mistaken on that.

No DROS doesn't necessarily mean there's no record of the transaction. If you ship it to an out-of-state FFL, there can still be the receiving FFL's acquisition records, shipping/tracking records, payment records, emails/messages, GunBroker or other marketplace records, and your own records. An FFL's records can also be examined by ATF and traced in connection with a firearm investigation.

So “how would California know?” is a different question from whether it legally counts. There are certainly ways an out-of-state sale could later become known even though there was no California DROS.

 

[chiroken007]

I am not advocating for action with regard to CA not being readily aware. I am more just asking since their monitory methods are almost exclusively related to DROS. As in. No more than 5 transaction totaling a maximum of 50 firearms. ATF don’t GAF as long as it appears tidy without some personal non FFL “business”

 

[Ryan Gosling]

I would err on the safe side and say itd raise eyebrows with the CADOJ, if they found out. If its not specified as A-Okay with them. I have talked about this previously with other FFLs and they have shrugged and said it wouldnt be a big deal, but having my own C&R makes me wary

 

[SDguy5.7x28]

This year I've done 5 PPTs, 1 consignment, and 2 out of state sales to cash4arms. Haven't gotten a DOJ letter yet. (Knock on wood).

 

[RustVendor]

This is not legal advice but I once did a ppt with a cop and he told me he does way more than 5 transfers per year and that no one pays attention to any of that

 

[p--and--p]

I would err on the safe side and say itd raise eyebrows with the CADOJ, if they found out. If its not specified as A-Okay with them. I have talked about this previously with other FFLs and they have shrugged and said it wouldnt be a big deal, but having my own C&R makes me wary

Dont get all worked up, it will NOT show up anywhere because it doesn't really count. California WANTS you to ship guns out of the state so they cheer for this. Just ship it, its a win for you and the state of california

 

[echo1]

This is not legal advice but I once did a ppt with a cop and he told me he does way more than 5 transfers per year and that no one pays attention to any of that

I've heard that as well, PAX

 

[Tere_Hanges]

My personal, non-legal opinion is that any prosecutor in CA is probably going to need more evidence than if you went a few transactions over 5 to prove you are operating as an unlicensed dealer. If they aren't going to prosecute you for trafficking or being an unlicensed dealer, then they aren't going to waste their time. It's a chicken arbitrary limit anyway. CA loves arbitrary limits on gun/civil rights that don't have any basis in logic.