CCW while using Waymo or Uber

[bluebird95]

Yeah I don't know what you are talking about

That's very clear. I suggest you go watch the aforementioned Colion video on YouTube.

 

[RustVendor]

That's very clear. I suggest you go watch the aforementioned Colion video on YouTube.

Instead of attempting to be condescending you can just say what your point is, I read what you wrote here and you haven't made a point to respond to. I'm not going to watch a video

 

[bluebird95]

Instead of attempting to be condescending you can just say what your point is, I read what you wrote here and you haven't made a point to respond to. I'm not going to watch a video

I stated my point in my original reply. The OP even stated that the Colion video is what prompted his question and mentioned there was possible detainment done by the Waymo car. If your reading comprehension and inference is truly so low that you don't understand what's going on here, that's okay. Otherwise your behavior is disingenuous, and I do not care to interact with you if you have no genuine discourse to offer.

 

[RustVendor]

I stated my point in my original reply. The OP even stated that the Colion video is what prompted his question and mentioned there was possible detainment done by the Waymo car. If your reading comprehension is truly so low that you don't understand what's going on here, that's okay. Otherwise your behavior is disingenuous, and I do not care to interact with you if you have no genuine discourse to offer.

I still don't know what you are trying to say about the topic, you could have just made your point but instead you are trying and failing to be insulting.

 

[DJD100]

I think his point is that Waymo should not report two kids waving an illegal fully loaded and illegally possessed AR rifle around in the back seat of one of their cars at 4:00AM while in a populated urban environment?

I guess he thinks their freedoms were trampled on or something like that?

I say great job to all getting those two violent armed criminals off the street!

 

[bluebird95]

Nobody ever said the kids were abiding by the law, nobody said that their lawbreaking shouldn't be prosecuted, and nobody said that the stop shouldn't of been made. People are, however, examining the rest of the circumstances surrounding the entire incident to see what kind of precedents it sets involving the 2A and services similar to these. For example, would waymo flag a CCW and proceed in similar fashion if the person was abiding by the law otherwise? I'm sorry this is so hard for you to understand. I wish you fellas a good one!

 

[RustVendor]

Nobody ever said the kids were abiding by the law, nobody said that their lawbreaking shouldn't be prosecuted, and nobody said that the stop shouldn't of been made. People are, however, examining the rest of the circumstances surrounding the entire incident to see what kind of precedents it sets involving the 2A and services similar to these. For example, would waymo flag a CCW and proceed in similar fashion if the person was abiding by the law otherwise? I'm sorry this is so hard for you to understand. I wish you fellas a good one!

 

[NorCalBusa]

Amazing timing. This happened this week. I would guess that these youngsters were handling said ghost gun in the car and that Waymo cameras (there are many inside the car) use AI to detect such an object and alert the staff. Waymo staff aren't monitoring all car videos in real time but they do have a staff that can see the video feed if needed.

If you put a pistol bag in the back I'm not sure they would know what it was. A rifle bag....maybe? But again, I don't know if the robots would alert staff to a long suitcase.

Waymo Alerts San Francisco Police to Armed Juveniles Riding in Driverless Vehicle

A Waymo autonomous vehicle alerted San Francisco police to a firearm violation, and officers arrested two juveniles with a loaded AR-style rifle when they stopped the car.

www.officer.com

"Rifle bag"? I think you are confused with a "pool queue bag", it happens a lot.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Tesla Robotaxi is rolling out too, which will replace everything else in time. They have a few hundred cars in Austin but they're starting to pop up in other metro areas. There's also a Robotaxi app.

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

People are, however, examining the rest of the circumstances surrounding the entire incident to see what kind of precedents it sets involving the 2A and services similar to these. For example, would waymo flag a CCW and proceed in similar fashion if the person was abiding by the law otherwise?

I believe this is what Bluebird was referencing.

I assume Waymo (and others) have multiple cameras/tech inside their vehicles. Can or should the company be allowed to not use those cameras/tech to scan the inside of their car with you in it, can they then stop the vehicle, AND are they authorized to call the police? As we know a car stop with reports of firearms, can get testy when LEO arrive. The answer seems yes per the example.

This could be similar to say Car Rentals/AirBnB/VRBO/Hotels. Can the companies/owner scan you as you enter AND then the inside of the residence/room/car for firearms while you are there, and report you to the local LE agencies.

Does your time inside a vehicle fall into a similar temporary privacy and 4th amendment rights?

So back back to topic, you should also try to be vigilant with the first "C" in CCW.

 

[RustVendor]

I believe this is what Bluebird was referencing.

I assume Waymo (and others) have multiple cameras/tech inside their vehicles. Can or should the company be allowed to not use those cameras/tech to scan the inside of their car with you in it, can they then stop the vehicle, AND are they authorized to call the police? As we know a car stop with reports of firearms, can get testy when LEO arrive. The answer seems yes per the example.

This could be similar to say Car Rentals/AirBnB/VRBO/Hotels. Can the companies/owner scan you as you enter AND then the inside of the residence/room/car for firearms while you are there, and report you to the local LE agencies.

Does your time inside a vehicle fall into a similar temporary privacy and 4th amendment rights?

So back back to topic, you should also try to be vigilant with the first "C" in CCW.

The way I see it is these "taxis" were traditionally staffed by a real life human, can you brandish a weapon to an uber driver legally? can you open carry in CA? There's no situation where you can get in a cab and brandish a firearm, loaded or unloaded, registered or not. Now the autonomous issue is interesting, is there a situation where they would not monitor the passengers while a robot drives them around? absolutely not. A million different things can happen from a medical issue to a sexual assault to vandalism to a minor brandishing a firearm . There is NO situation where a company would just allow crimes to happen in their vehicle as they may even have liability. If someone is using their car to commit crimes that's a big problem. Firearms always open up the slippery slope argument but this just isn't relevant here because clearly this was illegal activity. As far as being detained, none of the articles I found said they were trapped inside, it's certainly plausible since there are other reports of people being trapped in autonomous taxis. But if you commit a crime, you can be detained by anyone. A citizens arrest can happen if anyone witnesses a misdemeanor, let alone a felony. If the laws do indeed change around open carry, this could be a separate issue however it's still a private company and they can still deny access if you have a firearm As stated in Wolford v Lopez, even though the state can't make a blanket "vampire rule", private business can still restrict access to people carrying firearms.

"to be sure, owners of establishments that are open to
the public can admit or exclude persons who are carrying guns for self-
defense under either the common-law rule or Hawaii’s law."

Either way, there is no situation where Waymo would just ignore crimes being committed in their cars so this shouldn't be shocking at all. It actually has nothing to do with gun rights and more to do with property rights of the business. As stated above, the court affirmed that even publicly accessible business can restrict guns as they desire.

 

[elemental]

There is no question that the kids where at best being dumbasses and yes concealed means concealed. My concern is the computer is more observant than a human so it might detect your firearm even under your shirt.

As for the kids there is so much, we don’t know, but what I know is that Waymo didn’t know either. Did they violate the policy yes. So, the correct response from Waymo was to pull over and have them get out. Did Waymo know that they are minors (maybe), did they know that it was an illegal gun (no), were they brandishing (maybe), does a private entity have the right to detain someone (sometime), but should really need to have someone preset for that to work and even then, it’s limited on when (like risk to human live). The S/N amounts to an equipment violation, not something that non-LE can deal with. Brandishing gets messy. If the brandishing turns into threatening then sure a private person can get involved, but there are still risks with that (such as they might be LE).

Back core of the thread I did check Waymo, Uber, and Tesla and Waymo and Uber only allow them stored in the trunk. I didn’t find an answer on Tesla, but I would hope they are more as long as it’s legal, we don’t care.

 

[RustyIron]

Actually it seems Uber policy is that you can transport firearms and ammo locked in the trunk:

If the Uber driver tries to lock me in the trunk, he's going to get to see my pistol close up.

 

[RustVendor]

There is no question that the kids where at best being dumbasses and yes concealed means concealed. My concern is the computer is more observant than a human so it might detect your firearm even under your shirt.

As for the kids there is so much, we don’t know, but what I know is that Waymo didn’t know either. Did they violate the policy yes. So, the correct response from Waymo was to pull over and have them get out. Did Waymo know that they are minors (maybe), did they know that it was an illegal gun (no), were they brandishing (maybe), does a private entity have the right to detain someone (sometime), but should really need to have someone preset for that to work and even then, it’s limited on when (like risk to human live). The S/N amounts to an equipment violation, not something that non-LE can deal with. Brandishing gets messy. If the brandishing turns into threatening then sure a private person can get involved, but there are still risks with that (such as they might be LE).

Back core of the thread I did check Waymo, Uber, and Tesla and Waymo and Uber only allow them stored in the trunk. I didn’t find an answer on Tesla, but I would hope they are more as long as it’s legal, we don’t care.

Having a gun out in public is illegal. That's all they need to detain them it's a potential felony.

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

Either way, there is no situation where Waymo would just ignore crimes being committed in their cars so this shouldn't be shocking at all. It actually has nothing to do with gun rights and more to do with property rights of the business. As stated above, the court affirmed that even publicly accessible business can restrict guns as they desire.

Agreed for crimes for sure and agree businesses can restrict as they desire.

But the slope for me is the "scanning" for a crime. Do you have an expectation of privacy in an Uber, a rental car, Hotel, AirBnb, etc where you might think you do have privacy. For example can an Hotel/AirBnb say no firearms, then use cameras inside your room to see if you have them?

 

[RustVendor]

Agreed for crimes for sure and agree businesses can restrict as they desire.

But the slope for me is the "scanning" for a crime. Do you have an expectation of privacy in an Uber, a rental car, Hotel, AirBnb, etc where you might think you do have privacy. For example can an Hotel/AirBnb say no firearms, then use cameras inside your room to see if you have them?

As far as a I know they cant urveil you inside the room but to your point, when technology can sense your firearms in the lobby that's where it gets tricky. Legally speaking it seems like businesses are free to restrict what they want though. I don't think you have the same legal expectation of privacy in an Uber as you do in a hotel room though. In an Uber you are "in public".

Edited: meant to say CAN'T

 

[elemental]

Having a gun out in public is illegal. That's all they need to detain them it's a potential felony.

it's not illegal in all case and it's not something that allows a private party to detain you

 

[RustVendor]

it's not illegal in all case and it's not something that allows a private party to detain you

Why do you think that? Witnessing a misdemeanor is enough for a citizen's arrest in CA

 

[elemental]

Again, no one is questioning whether the kids were dumb. But it does open the question of what level of privacy you are expected to have inside a private vehicle and what their level of response is.

 

[RustVendor]

Again, no one is questioning whether the kids were dumb. But it does open the question of what level of privacy you are expected to have inside a private vehicle and what their level of response is.

An Uber is not a private vehicle it's a taxi, you definitely have no expectation of privacy in a taxi or rideshare and surveillance and 100% legal