Open Consolidate Classified rules

[cgncgn112]

What if after feedback on a sale is locked in, the users are anonymized, and the listing reverts to [item class] and [price bracket] on your profile? Isn't "positive feedback on a $200-500 optic" more than enough for security?

If the builders want to track price trends, cool, but please anonymize that. Like you, I'm not really searching for that at all.

The optic above is a great example: we don't need to be building a family tree of every past owner and sale price. I opt-out of that, if at all possible.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

What if after feedback on a sale is locked in, the users are anonymized, and the listing reverts to [item class] and [price bracket] on your profile? Isn't "positive feedback on a $200-500 optic" more than enough for security?

If the builders want to track price trends, cool, but please anonymize that. Like you, I'm not really searching for that at all.

The optic above is a great example: we don't need to be building a family tree of every past owner and sale price. I opt-out of that, if at all possible.

Well the proof of sale recently would be good. Keeping sales info for the long term helps track positive sales when another user reviews someone’s profile and their feedback history. Imagine you looking at someone’s transaction history and then the items are completely removed, photos are gone, I would have a harder time figuring out if this person is legit if they have low feedback; can or may help weed out a scammer account.

However, there are pro’s and con’s to this record keeping. I think the prices portion has its con if dealing with lowballers, scalpers, and scrapers. They could even use someone elses past lower price against the same seller in the future (hey you charged less back then for the same item even though it’s a different one) or some other seller to try to pay a lower offer; where they think a seller posting a deal for an easy sale could be the norm of a price.

 

[ikeo1]

I think the new privacy features are good, allowing people to disable accounts, and I hope they loosen up the rules on perma-posting old sales details too. Something in between "remember me forever" and "burn my account"

We’re working on this but it costs $ and time to develop and test. This is a major change because most platforms don’t do this. This niche is specific but we can’t just delete ads or we would be considered a negative to the state. We’ve been served search warrants so we want to be a responsible platform to make sure we don’t have the wrong people on the site but will have policies that focus on listing retention. The more the site grows the more important it is to prune data for space saving for cost reasons. The bloat of Calguns is an example, they have records dating back to 2006

Even GAFS new site, check the terms, they say they can request ID at anytime and will notify LEO and also keep records. They also do not delete the listings too and require the price to stay. Only one right now is Calguns, which allows you to edit details. That’s something we want as a differentiator. I’m focused on building something that is tolerated by the state

 

[han_solo]

Making users anonymous after the fact is perfectly acceptable alternative. You can keep the info on your side for warrents and such but there is NO reason to have a searchable database for the public . This IS a gun registry ceeated by our own community and it is not a good idea . If some users dont post here due to this than as a community we all lose out on cool guns that would otherwise be available . All that it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing . Allowing over encroachment of the state is really really bad . And in my opinion even worse when perpetrated by our own community . I love this site but privacy should be paramount for all parties involved . This is America . There has to be some compromise in the middle to allow freedom to flourish ...

We’re working on this but it costs $ and time to develop and test. This is a major change because most platforms don’t do this. This niche is specific but we can’t just delete ads or we would be considered a negative to the state. We’ve been served search warrants so we want to be a responsible platform to make sure we don’t have the wrong people on the site but will have policies that focus on listing retention. The more the site grows the more important it is to prune data for space saving for cost reasons. The bloat of Calguns is an example, they have records dating back to 2006

Even GAFS new site, check the terms, they say they can request ID at anytime and will notify LEO and also keep records. They also do not delete the listings too and require the price to stay. Only one right now is Calguns, which allows you to edit details. That’s something we want as a differentiator. I’m focused on building something that is tolerated by the state

This is how democracy dies ... Not with a scream or a bang , but with a whimper .

 

[han_solo]

Making users anonymous after the fact is perfectly acceptable alternative. You can keep the info on your side for warrents and such but there is NO reason to have a searchable database for the public . This IS a gun registry ceeated by our own community and it is not a good idea . If some users dont post here due to this than as a community we all lose out on cool guns that would otherwise be available . All that it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing . Allowing over encroachment of the state is really really bad . And in my opinion even worse when perpetrated by our own community . I love this site but privacy should be paramount for all parties involved . This is America . There has to be some compromise in the middle to allow freedom to flourish ...




This is how democracy dies ... Not with a scream or a bang , but with a whimper .

Then again im just some dude on the interwebs ... What do i know .

 

[cgncgn112]

Imagine you looking at someone’s transaction history and then the items are completely removed, photos are gone, I would have a harder time figuring out if this person is legit if they have low feedback; can or may help weed out a scammer account.

The majority of my sales and most of my inquiries are with 0 transaction accounts. So this is cannot be a limiting factor. At the cost of my own privacy, I do not care.

And I do not have a problem if for compliance you have to keep server records. They don't need to be public. Show me a gun store that lets the customers browse their DROS records.

 

[Scubabugdiver]

But we also have to keep in mind that the “sold price” might not have been the actual price that it was sold for after negotiations. It’s not required that we list the actual sold price when you mark your item “sold”. In other words, trying to base what you’re going to ask for a specific item could be inflated or deflated if your judgment is based on past sales. The best way to caliber how much you should ask for a specific item is to see what other people are asking for a similar or same item, and try to be competitive if your a motivated seller. Not what’s happened in the past. A lot can change. The choice to be able to opt in, or opt out of sharing this information may be useful. But honestly, I can’t see too many sellers who would choose to keep that information public. Once the item is gone, they probably really don’t care.

 

[ikeo1]

BraveMaking users anonymous after the fact is perfectly acceptable alternative. You can keep the info on your side for warrents and such but there is NO reason to have a searchable database for the public . This IS a gun registry ceeated by our own community and it is not a good idea . If some users dont post here due to this than as a community we all lose out on cool guns that would otherwise be available . All that it takes for evil to win is for good men to do nothing . Allowing over encroachment of the state is really really bad . And in my opinion even worse when perpetrated by our own community . I love this site but privacy should be paramount for all parties involved . This is America . There has to be some compromise in the middle to allow freedom to flourish ...




This is how democracy dies ... Not with a scream or a bang , but with a whimper .

Try building it , no other legitimate business does this that’s based in the US… there’s a reason no one does this. If you require anonymity, there is tor. But we see what happens to those sites. We don’t operate at that level. It’s easy for people to say but extremely hard to implement.

There’s a lot of practical issues you don’t have to consider from an ideological standpoint, but this is started self sponsored and is still scrappy. So we have to play by the rules. If you were responsible for the risks, I’m sure you’d change or at least reconsider your position but telling someone else they should do this or that is extremely easy because freedom!

Also if you think democracy dies because you can’t buy or sell here anonymously, then I think you’re exaggerating and a bit unrealistic. The fact you can buy/sell legitimately and lawfully is what we’re building.

 

[Scubabugdiver]

At the end of the day, it’s the classified that I probably care most about here on this site. IMHO, the ability to sell, trade and buy is probably what drives most people to this forum. It’s exciting to see who’s selling what, where they’re located, and what they’re asking for it. Just another aspect of being a gun collector. If I have to list my size to be able to do so here, so be it. I’m just glad this site works every time I open the app!

 

[cgncgn112]

extremely hard to implement.

Isn't it exactly as easy as letting people delete their own back posts? Nobody is requiring you to do this. There is no law about message boards. You already cited the working calguns site that doesn't restrict this. Just let buyers and sellers manage their own exposure.

To be clear, I would pay to support this. Per post even? I LOVE what you've done here and I respect the hell out of your work. Do you get where we're coming from?

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

If I have to list my size to be able to do so here, so be it. I’m just glad this site works every time I open the app!

 

[ikeo1]

Isn't it exactly as easy as letting people delete their own back posts? Nobody is requiring you to do this. There is no law about message boards. You already cited the working calguns site that doesn't restrict this. Just let buyers and sellers manage their own exposure.

To be clear, I would pay to support this. Per post even? I LOVE what you've done here and I respect the hell out of your work. Do you get where we're coming from?

they don’t let you delete if I recall. They let you edit. There’s a difference and it’s a big one. No sites let you delete them, tell me why you think that is? If they do they don’t allow these kinds of items, unless you pay. You know it’ll make you happy but it puts a target on my back. I’m sorry but I’m not going to risk it.

But it’s easy enough to start a forum site and I tell other people they can start one and make their own rules. It’s literally like $60/mo + time and effort to start, after you get some traction that number starts to jump things will change.

It wouldn’t be hard to do, there’s others who are starting out. Like I tell other people too, there’s a niche for that, here we’re working on things but you can easily do it on a forum basis vs the kind of system here.

I would also refer people to that site for that if you want the traffic. I’m following guidelines from other companies and it takes time to implement based on my experience with compliance.

If you want to do your own startup forum and add your disclaimers and do that it’s extremely easy to do. We’re doing it the hard way. I also think you’d start to notice the kind of traffic you get in that kind of environment. It’s pretty clean here because of the standards we have. When you start to allow that kind of traffic attracts the 5% we don’t want here.

 

[ikeo1]

We’re also still building so there’s plenty more to come. I’m not trying to be stubborn, just trying to build something for the majority of people

 

[cgncgn112]

Is this something the majority want, given the option? Aside from take-it-or-leave-it build your own site?

If there's a distinction, edit is fine. You're probably right and most people won't even notice.

 

[ikeo1]

Is this something the majority want, given the option? Aside from take-it-or-leave-it build your own site?

If there's a distinction, edit is fine. You're probably right and most people won't even notice.

Already asked in the past. Most people prefer to keep it. Hence it’s a GAFS policy.

The ones who don’t are in the minority for sure… most people like the feedback system. Also most people like to know they are buying or selling from someone reputable. If you’re anonymous this isn’t the site, but we’re trying to build it properly. There will be a lifespan for the ad but not on your timeline, it will be automated to satisfy compliance policies. We’re working on it but if you want your way, that’s why say build it. We’re working on our solution

 

[han_solo]

Already asked in the past. Most people prefer to keep it. Hence it’s a GAFS policy.

The ones who don’t are in the minority for sure… most people like the feedback system. Also most people like to know they are buying or selling from someone reputable. If you’re anonymous this isn’t the site, but we’re trying to build it properly. There will be a lifespan for the ad but not on your timeline, it will be automated to satisfy compliance policies. We’re working on it but if you want your way, that’s why say build it. We’re working on our solution

I think backside anonymity is what is being advocated for . Like after transactions complete on the public (front side ) users are anonymized , but you (ikeo) can still see all data for legal purposes . Like tinted windows for peeing toms . I just dont want some anytown nonsense up in here . Or if , God forbid laws change then this could be a total trap . A lot of ifs and maybes but something to think about . And yes i may have been a bit overdramatic . Lol . Im a prepper so this is unfortunately my mindset . You can call me tinfoil dave ....lololol im glad to see your thoughts evolve on the subject . Youre doing great please dont take my comments as attacks or disrespect .. just alil constructive criticism . Someone gotta play devils advocate .

 

[ikeo1]

I think backside anonymity is what is being advocated for . Like after transactions complete on the public (front side ) users are anonymized , but you (ikeo) can still see all data for legal purposes . Like tinted windows for peeing toms . I just dont want some anytown nonsense up in here . Or if , God forbid laws change then this could be a total trap . A lot of ifs and maybes but something to think about . And yes i may have been a bit overdramatic . Lol . Im a prepper so this is unfortunately my mindset . You can call me tinfoil dave ....lololol im glad to see your thoughts evolve on the subject . Youre doing great please dont take my comments as attacks or disrespect .. just alil constructive criticism . Someone gotta play devils advocate .

Yeah man, I’m working on it. It’s coming in stages.. we’re only going to grow. It’s fair but we gotta do things in stages to show we’re more than a market.

We did a lot in spreading awareness for other subjects and it’s better that way for the whole. This should be a portal for Californians to navigate the complexities of the state laws. We give best effort based on limited guidance and vague terms.

I’m walking a tight rope on both sides but overall goal is to keep building our reach to help people.

The growth is the main reason for the change and also having worked with LEO I understand the standards better so we’re making changes that’s positive for most people.

I hope you don’t take my comments too seriously either. I respect respectful discourse, but I have to make some decisions for what I think is best. It’s not always right but I think people see I’ll make adjustments as we go.

 

[cgncgn112]

it’s the classified that I probably care most about here on this site. IMHO, the ability to sell, trade and buy is probably what drives most people to this forum

I love the work you've put in here, but I agree with @Scubabugdiver and @han_solo : I come here for the market. I do not want the other stuff, particularly working with LEO to compile a database of who's selling which guns, where, forever, that's public and searchable by user, brand, price. That doesn't seem like something that keeps us safe at all.

And that is how the majority of users I've talked to feel. Better to start things off right and NOT force users to keep all that data public forever, when there's no law demanding it today.

 

[cgncgn112]

And please understand, we're discussing two sides of the law enforcement equation, because that could be a "some day" problem.

Me and other users are also right to be concerned about criminals Today. What stops somebody from searching the highest dollar transactions, see where those pieces are now, and targeting those users for robbery or worse? If anybody wants a free 509t I know @2muchsoysauce4allthisrice has one right now and I can look up any time if he sells it elsewhere. This opens users up to danger, buyers most of all.

Think of the children? Anyway, I do love your work. Likewise, I respect the discourse.

 

[ikeo1]

I come here for the market. I do not want the other stuff,

That’s why I said, if you want it your way, you can do it. There’s a niche for that but it’s not mine.

Mine is to inform, provide access and training from reputable people and places. We’re also not compiling a database for LEO, we actually have a number of LEO here who provide information and are part of the community. There are a number of first responders, MIL etc here.

That’s kind of what I’m saying about our purpose. If you wanted to start something specific, there’s users for it for sure, but the reality is no one will actually try to do that because I think you know better.

You and your friends already have enough to start it up and like I said, I would recommend your site, or anyone else for that matter.

I’ve had many dozens of people tell me but they never want to set it up on their own. It would be a very specialized forum specifically tailored the way you want it without any of the other parts and it would be quite easy, much easier to setup than here. I’m not being facetious, it’s just that’s not the overall direction I’d like to go. It’s a section of the overall site. I’m thinking bigger picture and building a platform, while others can focus on a anon market

Just incase you didn’t know Google, facebook, Microsoft have dedicated teams to LEO, who can look at all your emails and other information.

Technically, you can also do this with the new self disable feature, but you give up the access to the classifieds permanently. Like I said, we’ll do it our way which I think will last long term. I get what you want, but we have our implementation.