Do you intervene?

[FCRII]

I usually only intervene if it’s something that can get somebody in trouble legally. I will also try not to do corrections in front of the employee and wait until they step away. If they try and give me idiotic advice directly I will speak up but that usually only happens at corporate chain type stores not my local ones.

I heard someone just this week telling a customer their center console counted as a trunk. Also had one try and convince a colleague to use their “legally acquired freedom week mags” for a gun that was made in the past year with no prior mag creation. I spoke up…

 

[GeeQ87]

Why y’all so angry on a Saturday morning? Rough week at work?

This reminds me of middle school. “You talking s**t? Meet up after school at THE ALLEY.” Everyone knew that meant we met in the alley a block from school and handled . That was around 2000 lol

 

[River City Gun Exchange]

I feel lucky my local shops have decent employees that are knowledgeable and I've only seen customers making stupid comments or trying to be political and staff rolling their eyes or just shutting them down. A while back my ex was looking to upgrade her duck gun and the guy at River City in Sac not only talked her into a Benelli M2 he gave her a massive discount because it had been on the shelf for a while. I consider that a win as I did not want to spend another season clearing jams from another cheap 12 gauge

Hey thanks for the shout out!

To contribute to the post: From a gun store's perspective, we try to be informed as much as we can. I always tell my guys that there are going to be times where the customer knows more than us. It is our responsibility to not make something up on the fly or talk about things we are uninformed of. It is a disservice to the customer and it just is poor form on our part. We are always willing to find out the answer if we are unsure. We have had plenty of moments in which we get tough questions or very peculiar questions/requests. And to be honest, there have been times where I cringe at some things that get said (both customer side/employees side). I just try to do my best and inform people to avoid those cringeworthy statements.

 

[Malibu]

I have experienced it from another angle, being that another customer started trash talking a purchase I was interested in. I was at my preferred FFL, looking at a Hi-Point pistol I was considering using as a training tool for some new shooters, as a means to show examples of the broad spectrum of available sidearms one could choose from at the time. This other customer (male) starts ranting about what junk those are, and that if I bought it I am really doing myself a disservice, and I must be a total noob. While I already owned one and have had 100% satisfactory performance considering its attributes, I let him ramble on while the salesman and I giggled. I then goaded him by asking if it was better than my old Lorcin, Jennings, Bryco, or Rhom pistols, to which he had a totally disgusted look (we collect those as well). After he ran his mouth for a few minutes, I mentioned that the Hi-Point would be sharing space in the armory with some NHC’s, Wilson’s, Korth revolvers, vintage S&W’s, and several very nice hunting rifles with historical provenance. At that point he wandered away and exited the shop. Sure wish I had a recording of all that. It was epically fun.

 

[RustVendor]

Hey thanks for the shout out!

To contribute to the post: From a gun store's perspective, we try to be informed as much as we can. I always tell my guys that there are going to be times where the customer knows more than us. It is our responsibility to not make something up on the fly or talk about things we are uninformed of. It is a disservice to the customer and it just is poor form on our part. We are always willing to find out the answer if we are unsure. We have had plenty of moments in which we get tough questions or very peculiar questions/requests. And to be honest, there have been times where I cringe at some things that get said (both customer side/employees side). I just try to do my best and inform people to avoid those cringeworthy statements.

I saw one of your employees do the biggest eye roll and just walk away when some guy wanted to start talking politics. It was during covid when there were lines down the block. It was hilarious and I was just thinking "thank you......" he saved us, we were stuck in line for another 30 minutes at least.

 

[Deleted member 4781]

Speaking as someone who's worked in the industry, unless it's just someone making small talk to be friendly, I hate it when customers try to intervene on my sale, because they usually don't know as much as they think, and waste everyone's time trying to sell the customer their favorite gun instead of what the customer actually wants, or they end up making the customer second guess their decision entirely.

Have actually lost a couple sales like that because some genius had to add his 2 cents, so the customer changed their mind to go home and "do more research" after I had spent considerable time showing them different options, walking them through all their questions and concerns for them to decide they like something, only for this chucklehead to butt in and say "Oh those guns are junk! You should buy..."

Point being, you may have good intentions, but unless an employee is giving egregiously bad/dangerous advice, it isn't your time, business or money on the line to worry about. If it's really that serious then take it to the manager/store owner, leave a review about if you feel so inclined, or get your COE and apply to be a salesman yourself, but I agree that you should stay out of it.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Generally I would stay out of it unless it's an obvious safety or legal risk. I wouldn't intervene with an employee recommending X or Y gun or the usual sales talk.

If someone is quoting law and it's demonstrably wrong and I know it, I might add some information. Same with laws around safe transport. But, I would really have to know what I'm talking about and the people in question should appear to want some input or seem uncertain. Typical 'read the room' interaction.

 

[Warpspeed]

Generally I would stay out of it unless it's an obvious safety or legal risk. I wouldn't intervene with an employee recommending X or Y gun or the usual sales talk.

If someone is quoting law and it's demonstrably wrong and I know it, I might add some information. Same with laws around safe transport. But, I would really have to know what I'm talking about and the people in question should appear to want some input or seem uncertain. Typical 'read the room' interaction.

The fine folks at Turners did this all the time when the OLL and featureless rifles first started being sold in early 2000's. There was no way you were going to change their mind or rhetoric so why bother ?

I would say that before you tart interjecting yourself in someone's business, ask yourself if they did hat at your work, how would you respond ?

Salesman at the car dealer is trying to sell an EV, are you seriously going to correct him on point you believe to be wrong ?

 

[Jonbuysguns]

When you hear bad sales people giving bad advice at your FFL, do you ever intervene?

We have specific rules at my company, among them are listening more than talking, never disparaging another product/brand, and provide the "why". Listen to the customer, make your recommendation without trashing other products, and explain why you make your recommendation. Simple.

Saturday I overheard cringeworthy employee help a new gun purchaser make a buying decision by sh*tting on multiple brands, ignoring questions and explaining absolutely nothing. Poor guy had been saving for months. His whole family was there (dad, mom, sister) to watch and support this purchase, which had obviously a been a big decision collectively. All he needed was a little guidance.

I could've answered his questions, pointed out a few options, and helped him make the decision. Instead, I stood and bit my tongue. As always. I don't want to create friction at my FFL... or so I told myself.

Has anyone else actually manned up and intervened? How'd it go?

I always intervene! Imagine someone buying this gun as their one and only. not for sports but for the protection of himself and his loved one and someones recommending something that's just dogsht not reliable. 100% intervening. I'll always intervene when a gunshop is just spitting a bunch of nonsense to buy a Springfield XD also. They push these because they want to earn the sale points of Springfield products to be able to exchange it for a free gun. My place or not, I don't want someone taking home a gun that may malfunction at a time of crisis.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

The fine folks at Turners did this all the time when the OLL and featureless rifles first started being sold in early 2000's. There was no way you were going to change their mind or rhetoric so why bother ?

I would say that before you tart interjecting yourself in someone's business, ask yourself if they did hat at your work, how would you respond ?

Salesman at the car dealer is trying to sell an EV, are you seriously going to correct him on point you believe to be wrong ?

Depends on the risk/reward calculus. Angering my local FFL isn't something I take lightly, but then again someone who is intellectually honest and has a modicum of courage isn't going to mind a valid challenge.

 

[Warpspeed]

Depends on the risk/reward calculus. Angering my local FFL isn't something I take lightly, but then again someone who is intellectually honest and has a modicum of courage isn't going to mind a valid challenge.

Fair point but I tend to treat others as they treat me or how I want to be treated and I would not want a customer at my place of business to insert themselves in the middle of a negotiation or sale. Period. It is just plain rude.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Fair point but I tend to treat others as they treat me or how I want to be treated and I would not want a customer at my place of business to insert themselves in the middle of a negotiation or sale. Period. It is just plain rude.

Sure, I think this is the expected response and I would be generally loathe to interfere unless I thought input would be welcome. That input could also be used to assist the LGS rather than interfering, where applicable.

 

[Warpspeed]

Sure, I think this is the expected response and I would be generally loathe to interfere unless I thought input would be welcome. That input could also be used to assist the LGS rather than interfering, where applicable.

That begs the question -

What about being at the LGS empowers you to feel like you can interfere with their business ?

If you are at the supermarket and the butcher is trying to sell a customer the filet mignon when we all know the ribeye is a better cut, do you interrupt and tell the customer not to get the filet because it's not as good ? Of course not.

So why insert yourself at the gun store ? I'll tell you why. Because everyone things LGS employees are idiots and they are smarter and know better.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

That begs the question -

What about being at the LGS empowers you to feel like you can interfere with their business ?

If you are at the supermarket and the butcher is trying to sell a customer the filet mignon when we all know the ribeye is a better cut, do you interrupt and tell the customer not to get the filet because it's not as good ? Of course not.

So why insert yourself at the gun store ? I'll tell you why. Because everyone things LGS employees are idiots and they are smarter and know better.

As I wrote, "I would be generally loathe to interfere unless I thought input would be welcome." So, I'm not going to defend any position against your hypothetical argument as to whether I would intervene or not. It's entirely dependent on the situation. I would be using my best judgement in said situation. Also, I may be an expert in one type of gun or optic compared to the LGS employee, who has to have a broad knowledge base without the depth in some peculiar area. This is true of humans in general. Someone may speak with authority on a number of subjects, but I have my areas of expertise too.

Right now, you're intervening about hypothetical situations which may or may not warrant intervention. And, I wouldn't call it 'intervention' if the help/advice/feedback/corroboration is welcome, but this requires an ability to "read the room". This includes but is not limited to non-verbal or subtle communication which invites the feedback. Customers do this all the time with each other, and so do LGS employees whom I know and respect. They know I'm not coming for them.

This could work for or against the advice of an employee or customer at a gun store, but I'm not trying to upset anyone at a gun store, let alone my local gun store. I've learned at my old age that not everyone is stable, no matter how 'correct' the advice or correction. This again leads my default to be, "Don't intervene". And, we're talking about people with access to guns here, so an abundance of caution seems pragmatic. If you've ever tried to make a valid but trivial correction for someone on the Internet, then you know of which I speak. What's surprising is not that people make mistakes but that some people go absolutely bat crazy if you correct them...about anything.

I would only intervene *against* an employee if the advice were flat-out wrong, but anyone who has a modicum of intelligence, courage, and stoicism wouldn't mind a valid correction, especially if it's a mundane detail they wouldn't be expected to know. It's also fallacious to assume that a correction means one thinks the person being corrected is an idiot. I've been corrected a lot about this or that, and I know I'm not an idiot.

If they can't handle the correction, then they probably won't be my LGS for long depending on how they react. In essence, if I wouldn't mind the correction then they shouldn't either. I don't hold someone in high esteem for the perception of 'never being wrong' (especially in 2024 with ready Internet access) so much as having a calm and rational demeanor—and that would mean they could take correction in stride. I have far more respect for knowledge with humility than someone who attempts to play the 'know-it-all', though I'm always happy to learn from those who know more than me.

P.S. I changed my username to match Reddit.

P.P.S. It's always wrong in English to add a space before ending punctuation. Let's see how you handle this correction and feel free to look it up. It might be that you assume of others your own personality traits/quirks. If this correction enrages you then I invite you to think about how you're projecting your attitude on to others.

 

[Warpspeed]

As I wrote, "I would be generally loathe to interfere unless I thought input would be welcome." So, I'm not going to defend any position against your hypothetical argument as to whether I would intervene or not. It's entirely dependent on the situation. I would be using my best judgement in said situation. Also, I may be an expert in one type of gun or optic compared to the LGS employee, who has to have a broad knowledge base without the depth in some peculiar area. This is true of humans in general. Someone may speak with authority on a number of subjects, but I have my areas of expertise too.

Right now, you're intervening about hypothetical situations which may or may not warrant intervention. And, I wouldn't call it 'intervention' if the help/advice/feedback/corroboration is welcome, but this requires an ability to "read the room". This includes but is not limited to non-verbal or subtle communication which invites the feedback. Customers do this all the time with each other, and so do LGS employees whom I know and respect. They know I'm not coming for them.

This could work for or against the advice of an employee or customer at a gun store, but I'm not trying to upset anyone at a gun store, let alone my local gun store. I've learned at my old age that not everyone is stable, no matter how 'correct' the advice or correction. This again leads my default to be, "Don't intervene". And, we're talking about people with access to guns here, so an abundance of caution seems pragmatic. If you've ever tried to make a valid but trivial correction for someone on the Internet, then you know of which I speak. What's surprising is not that people make mistakes but that some people go absolutely bat crazy if you correct them...about anything.

I would only intervene *against* an employee if the advice were flat-out wrong, but anyone who has a modicum of intelligence, courage, and stoicism wouldn't mind a valid correction, especially if it's a mundane detail they wouldn't be expected to know. It's also fallacious to assume that a correction means one thinks the person being corrected is an idiot. I've been corrected a lot about this or that, and I know I'm not an idiot.

If they can't handle the correction, then they probably won't be my LGS for long depending on how they react. In essence, if I wouldn't mind the correction then they shouldn't either. I don't hold someone in high esteem for the perception of 'never being wrong' (especially in 2024 with ready Internet access) so much as having a calm and rational demeanor—and that would mean they could take correction in stride. I have far more respect for knowledge with humility than someone who attempts to play the 'know-it-all', though I'm always happy to learn from those who know more than me.

P.S. I changed my username to match Reddit.

P.P.S. It's always wrong in English to add a space before ending punctuation. Let's see how you handle this correction and feel free to look it up. It might be that you assume of others your own personality traits/quirks. If this correction enrages you then I invite you to think about how you're projecting your attitude on to others.

Thank you for proving my point.

An arrogant person considers himself perfect. This is the chief harm of arrogance. It interferes with a person's main task in life - becoming a better person.

- Leo Tolstoy

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Thank you for proving my point.

Accusations of arrogance have zero to do with the merit of an argument. That's an Ad Hominem (to the man) fallacy.

 

[joefrank64k]

No way I'm intervening. Not my monkey, not my circus.

They're buying a gun, not deciding to have a kid, or considering irreversible surgery, haha!!

If it ends up the gun doesn't quite work for them? There are others!! In the meantime, they're protected.

One person's FUD is another person's...not-FUD??

G19 vs M18 vs M&P vs XD vs PDP vs blah, blah, blah. "Meet the new boss...same as the old boss" haha!!

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

There was one time at a store, where someone who moved in from out state, was asking about owning an AR-pistol they moved over to Cali with. The employee told him those are considered AW’s; told him the only legal way of owning one is the Franklin armory ca7, bolt action pistol.

I was surprised the employee didn’t even ask if it was fixed mag or tell him just make it fixed mag since it’s a handgun that accepts a magazine not within the handgrip; then it wouldn’t be AW. The store wasn’t even a fudd store either; so I was surprised I heard that.

I noticed the guy asking the question was really quiet, with a scared, anxious, and nervous reaction. So, what the employee told the guy; actually scared him. That was a moment I wanted to intervene but was also asking myself “should I mind my own business?” because that guy really scared the fart out of that guy.

That was almost similar to a situation where someone at a shop telling someone an AR-pistol registered as pistol in a pistol configuration, even with a pistol cheek buffer tube is an SBR; it’s not considered a pistol even though it is in a pistol configuration.

 

[wtf_calguns_migration]

Unless someone is pointing a loaded gun at me, I ignore everyone else until it's time for me to attend to my business.

If someone wants to include me in their BS, employee or customer, I generally reply with whatever transaction I'm there for.

Lmk when a gun store installs poles and hires dancers. Then I'll hang out. Otherwise I have other hoes to save elsewhere.

 

[sonofeugene]

I had a clerk at a local gun store tell me that the way I was carrying my pistols was illegal. My pistol was in a locked case, the pistol was unloaded with no magazines inserted, but I did have loaded mags next to the pistol.

I told him he was wrong and ignored him.