Echelon becoming the new go to (full/carry) pistol?

[john_marsten_1873]

Was looking up Echelon pics, looks like unless you get an optic that uses the whole footprint, you’ll have to either not be OCD and be ok with gaps, or get a plate to fill the gaps.

View attachment 117842

I’m OCD about that. Apparently, the gap there increases the speed at which the mounting screws walk.

That really sucks if the direct mount allows you to co-witness already with standard height irons.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

I’m OCD about that. Apparently, the gap there increases the speed at which the mounting screws walk.

That really sucks if the direct mount allows you to co-witness already with standard height irons.

it has pins underneath though that fit into the actual recoil lub holes, I doubt it has any effect on the mounting screws. Ive had a bajillion different optic situations and the screws walk when they don't have loctite or break when they are cheap but the support at the front of the optic isn't important because there are recoil lugs under the optic and that's how it's designed.

 

[Ron Swanson]

I’m OCD about that. Apparently, the gap there increases the speed at which the mounting screws walk.

That really sucks if the direct mount allows you to co-witness already with standard height irons.

I’m thinking a plate should be thin and just bethere to fill the front and back gap space, and only slightly impact co witness.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

I’m thinking a plate should be thin and just bethere to fill the front and back gap space, and only slightly impact co witness.

the M&p system is exactly how you describe. I actually think their system is underrated because the plates, while plastic, are super thin and you screw directly into the slide. I have thousands of rounds on it with no issues.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

it has pins underneath though that fit into the actual recoil lub holes, I doubt it has any effect on the mounting screws. Ive had a bajillion different optic situations and the screws walk when they don't have loctite or break when they are cheap but the support at the front of the optic isn't important because there are recoil lugs under the optic and that's how it's designed.

The screws are going to walk no matter what unless it’s a frame mount.

Having flush contact (front and rear) along with the lugs, Loctite, torque…reduces the speed at which they walk. Having gaps there definitely causes them to walk sooner and replace mounting screws sooner from what I’ve experienced.

Shadow Systems did a good thing with including shims for various optics.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

The screws are going to walk no matter what unless it’s a frame mount.

Having flush contact (front and rear) along with the lugs, Loctite, torque…reduces the speed at which they walk. Having gaps there definitely causes them to walk sooner and replace mounting screws sooner from what I’ve experienced.

Shadow Systems did a good thing with including shims for various optics.

if you are having issue with your screws coming undone maybe degrease the mounting holes. I don't really have that issue, I have witness marks and its easy to see if they are moving.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

if you are having issue with your screws coming undone maybe degrease the mounting holes. I don't really have that issue, I have witness marks and its easy to see if they are moving.

TL;DR flush-fit, lugs, long mounting screws, torque, Loctite == maximum reliability. Especially, if you also rack you’re slide with your optic.

First noticed this with my M18 and Holosun without mounting plate. After about ~3k rounds noticed accuracy drop and subsequently, zero was inconsistent.

Because I’m absolutely ridiculous I decided to experiment up to seeing which has the most prevention (yeah, I do like that! no regrets!).

After cleaning the surface and screws, fresh Loctite and torque, adding witness marks, screws start walking again at just over 2000rds. I didn’t necessarily think mounting plates were a scam but I questioned the impact of them - for my own eyes.

Then got an additional plate and grinded down the lugs but flush fit, screws walking at ~1800. Big reduction but already weakened screws.

Did this on an aftermarket slide and pretty much the same results, where not being flush fit and having lugs causes screws to walk faster and increases thread wear.

Obviously, there too many variables and scenarios to control for.

At least on my defense pistols, optics are either flush fit or use a mounting plate/shims and have lugs.

But I do find it a bit crazy that something like an RMR footprint isn’t optimized for and I only have 1.

They should at least including shims for the most popular optics.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

TL;DR flush-fit, lugs, long mounting screws, torque, Loctite == maximum reliability. Especially, if you also rack you’re slide with your optic.

First noticed this with my M18 and Holosun without mounting plate. After about ~3k rounds noticed accuracy drop and subsequently, zero was inconsistent.

Because I’m absolutely ridiculous I decided to experiment up to seeing which has the most prevention (yeah, I do like that! no regrets!).

After cleaning the surface and screws, fresh Loctite and torque, adding witness marks, screws start walking again at just over 2000rds. I didn’t necessarily think mounting plates were a scam but I questioned the impact of them - for my own eyes.

Then got an additional plate and grinded down the lugs but flush fit, screws walking at ~1800. Big reduction but already weakened screws.

Did this on an aftermarket slide and pretty much the same results, where not being flush fit and having lugs causes screws to walk faster and increases thread wear.

Obviously, there too many variables and scenarios to control for.

At least on my defense pistols, optics are either flush fit or use a mounting plate/shims and have lugs.

But I do find it a bit crazy that something like an RMR footprint isn’t optimized for and I only have 1.

They should at least including shims for the most popular optics.

I've found though that optics even of the same model let alone brand and footprint aren't consistent enough for there to be a system to account for it. I have a slide that was custom fit for a specifc optic and it fit extremely tight, that optic had issues and I switched it with the same exact model and it didn't fit I had to file away the cerakote a bit to get it in there. I don't know how well these ready made plates actually support the optic from the front and back, there's bound to be some amount of movement possible. All that said, I haven't really had issues with any of my optics loosening up, I put 1500 on my m&p in just the last month and it's still good, probably 4000 total since I mounted it. I just put witness marks and check it before matches

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I've found though that optics even of the same model let alone brand and footprint aren't consistent energy ugh for there to be a system to account for it. I have a slide that was custom fit for a specifc optic and it fit extremely tight, that optic had issues and I switched it with the same exact model and it didn't fit I had to file away the cerakote a bit to get it in there. I don't know how well these ready made plates actually support the optic from the front and back, there's bound to be some amount of movement possible. All that said, I haven't really had issues with any of my optics loosening up, I put 1500 on my m&p in just the last month and it's still good, probably 4000 total since I mounted it. I just put witness marks and check it before matches

Yeah. There’s certainly some variance in QC between all the various parts and pistols.

For my competition pistols I don’t worry as much. I actually, appreciate the routine of having to inspect and maintaining them. I shoot my defense pistols far less but same routine, regardless.

 

[estepipes]

The Mischief Machine grip looks neat, I have three m&ps otherwise I would try an echelon. I will probably pick one up if they go on sale some day

would you like to buy my echelon?

 

[Deleted member 16735]

would you like to buy my echelon?

no I don't like comps on pistols.

 

[estepipes]

no I don't like comps on pistols

it doesnt have a comp on it. when i say comp i mean its the compact version man

 

[Deleted member 16735]

it doesnt have a comp on it. when i say comp i mean its the compact version man

oh that's funny, well I also don't like compact pistols haha. I ccw a full size.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

No,
Still P320 then M&P, VP9 or PDP

By recommendation of @DesertDepotArms I picked up an M&P - going to order some mags from him tomorrow.

P320 still my favorite but this M&P Metal (found an HD Competitor slide) feels pretty darn good!

I like the grip and angle, tight, smooth lockup and this is the cleanest break from a stock trigger I've yet to experience - on a striker fired pistol. Just my opinion but the Echelon feels really cheap in comparison.

Personally, I prefer manual safety as well as I realized it's another index point I can utilize.

Anyone interested in an Echelon with <100rds - and some Glocks?

 

[adrkwan]

I like the M&P 2.0 Metal a bit more as well. Echelon still felt pretty good after swapping to a metal grip module.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

Was looking up Echelon pics, looks like unless you get an optic that uses the whole footprint, you’ll have to either not be OCD and be ok with gaps, or get a plate to fill the gaps.

View attachment 117842

Maybe a plate for an aimpoint acro p2; might fill up the space?

 

[Negol]

Would be nice if they were in .40. I'm not lookin to add yet another caliber

 

[Smittty]

Echelon now available with aimpoint COA.

 

[M_N04H]

By recommendation of @DesertDepotArms I picked up an M&P - going to order some mags from him tomorrow.

P320 still my favorite but this M&P Metal (found an HD Competitor slide) feels pretty darn good!

I like the grip and angle, tight, smooth lockup and this is the cleanest break from a stock trigger I've yet to experience - on a striker fired pistol. Just my opinion but the Echelon feels really cheap in comparison.

Personally, I prefer manual safety as well as I realized it's another index point I can utilize.

Anyone interested in an Echelon with <100rds - and some Glocks?

I'm just waiting on that 10mm next month

 

[CaptainLevi]

What are yall thoughts on the Glock 26X/M1X?