EMP reality

[jayson_b24]

My Springfield EMP is an incredible mini 1911.

Came here for this comment, was not disappointed.

 

[drinktothat421]

From the protection aspect of a faraday cage (earlier mentioned by Diablous) the absence of a shield is the problem. The whole vehicle would have to be shielded in a fabric/material that is smaller than the frequency wavelength. A box that absorbs a E pulse is more like a lightning rod than a shield. That is just my thought, it may or may not be relevant to the vehicle protection (caveat emptor, buyer beware LOL)

Ya the battery mounted onces and only 12v plug ones. I guess are better then nothing.

 

[Gawernator]

Honestly not something I care about, probably dead anyways if nuked and if not, probably not a world worth living in anymore lol unless Fallout is appealing

 

[dvoncock]

Honestly not something I care about, probably dead anyways if nuked and if not, probably not a world worth living in anymore lol unless Fallout is appealing

Same. A targeted EMP attack without a follow-on strike is, theoretically, possible. But what nuclear-armed nation would not hit back with everything it has (left) in response to a high altitude detonation? If it ever happens, seems like that’s all she wrote…

 

[WSS01]

Same. A targeted EMP attack without a follow-on strike is, theoretically, possible. But what nuclear-armed nation would not hit back with everything it has (left) in response to a high altitude detonation? If it ever happens, seems like that’s all she wrote…

The "M.A.D." doctrine....

 

[WSS01]

Keep in mind, the idea of a HA EMP is to preserve the infrastructure of the targeted space. If done correctly, the opposing side will not be able to launch. Aside from the nuke EMP, there are other natural occurrences too, like solar flares. My faraday preps are not just one sided. Likely, most of us are from Kali and are familiar with "earthquake preps". Those same preps can be used in many situations besides earthquakes. I am going with that rationale, not just a nuke. I used that as just an example in my OP.

If we are going to go down the nuke only avenue, what else are you guys doing for that? Bunkers, NBC masks, potassium iodide, etc.. I completely understand the guys who are content with going belly up, I am more interested in those who prep to live.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Keep in mind, the idea of a HA EMP is to preserve the infrastructure of the targeted space. If done correctly, the opposing side will not be able to launch. Aside from the nuke EMP, there are other natural occurrences too, like solar flares. My faraday preps are not just one sided. Likely, most of us are from Kali and are familiar with "earthquake preps". Those same preps can be used in many situations besides earthquakes. I am going with that rationale, not just a nuke. I used that as just an example in my OP.

If we are going to go down the nuke only avenue, what else are you guys doing for that? Bunkers, NBC masks, potassium iodide, etc.. I completely understand the guys who are content with going belly up, I am more interested in those who prep to live.

I was NBC in the Marines you’re not prepared, you as a civilian can not prepare to a level that would make a difference. It sucks, but it is reality. If you left all populated areas and moved into remote mountains you could buy yourself some time. but most people are not willing to live that way on the off chance they make it a little longer.

if you live in Socal kiss you ass good bye period. The ring of mountains that goes around LA and down to Mexico is a perfect box. We are all F-ed if anything ever really kicks off. to my fellow Socal people think about the 405 or 110 on a just a normal day, now think about everyone trying to flee outside the ring to somewhere that actually can support life without human intervention.

LA has no water, Orange county has no water without massive pumps pulling it out of the ground, SD, same. It’s a handful of roads that import all of our, meds, food, a pipeline for water and some transmission lines to keep the lights on.

 

[WSS01]

I was NBC in the Marines you’re not prepared, you as a civilian can not prepare to a level that would make a difference. It sucks, but it is reality. If you left all populated areas and moved into remote mountains you could buy yourself some time. but most people are not willing to live that way on the off chance they make it a little longer.

if you live in Socal kiss you ass good bye period. The ring of mountains that goes around LA and down to Mexico is a perfect box. We are all F-ed if anything ever really kicks off. to my fellow Socal people think about the 405 or 110 on a just a normal day, now think about everyone trying to flee outside the ring to someone that actually can support life without human intervention.

LA has no water, Orange county has no water without massive pumps pulling it out of the ground, SD, same. It’s a handful of roads that import all of our, meds, food, a pipeline for water and some transmission lines to keep the lights on.

So a bunker does not work? Concrete, sealed, filtered? What is the seven day half life thing?

 

[Darqhelmet]

So a bunker does not work? Concrete, sealed, filtered? What is the seven day half life thing?

You could live a few days to month or maybe really lucky and a couple months.

Ok you’re in your bunker, how are you powering your filters and air circulation? How do you see, remove moisture, waste? How are you decontaminating if you have to go outside or crack the seal? How did you know when to break the seals on the filters so you didn’t waste them? Are they actually the proper filters? Etc Etc Etc.

 

[Gawernator]

So a bunker does not work? Concrete, sealed, filtered? What is the seven day half life thing?

Referring to that after about a week most of the deadly radiation is gone? That's true, though depends where you're at. It could be safe after a few days or it could take a month. My dad is a nuke hahahah

 

[WSS01]

You could live a few days to month or maybe really lucky and a couple months.

Ok you’re in your bunker, how are you powering your filters and air circulation? How do you see, remove moisture, waste? How are you decontaminating if you have to go outside or crack the seal? How did you know when to break the seals on the filters so you didn’t waste them? Are they actually the proper filters? Etc Etc Etc.

Solar and a massive battery pack to start with. I know the solar will likely fail in the first day, but it is something. Powering the filters would be a low amp low voltage motor that kicks once in a while, likely manually as we read the o2 levels. Broadcasts on fm, am and sw for info when it's safe. Water is already stored and purified. For sanitation, a S bucket, trash bags, sealable 5 gl buckets, and that newish absorber stuffNow.

I am just proposing this, nothing is for certain, I am just batting this back and forth for both info and entertainment. It is Saturday and I'm bored, I am not a right wing prepper, really.

 

[Darqhelmet]

So a bunker does not work? Concrete, sealed, filtered? What is the seven day half life thing?

Nukes don’t leave a ton of fallout especially if they are high altitude.

Solar and a massive battery pack to start with. I know the solar will likely fail in the first day, but it is something. Powering the filters would be a low amp low voltage motor that kicks once in a while, likely manually as we read the o2 levels. Broadcasts on fm, am and sw for info when it's safe. Water is already stored and purified. For sanitation, a S bucket, trash bags, sealable 5 gl buckets, and that newish absorber stuffNow.

I am just proposing this, nothing is for certain, I am just batting this back and forth for both info and entertainment. It is Saturday and I'm bored, I am not a right wing prepper, really.

Every transmission line is going to carry that emp right into your setups controller. a bad lighting striker will follow long runs of copper fry the control or a solar flair will do the same. So have it unplugged and buried if that is your plan. But make sure you also shield your panels, which oh you have to go outside to setup, now you have to decon. Which is your bunker entrance an airlock that is positive pressure with filter air that only blows back outside? How much water do you have to decon? Waste in a bucket? That gets you a week? You can vacuum seal it I guess, but that’s more high power draw. Youre not controlling moisture or temp with low voltage sometimes on filtering. Who’s changing the filters? Where is this bunker btw? What soil? How did you set it up with out Carl noticing? Is the entrance hidden? What about the massive solar array? If you live in any populated area it’s not possible. That’s why the ruling class fleas to remote locations with no or super low population and even that is a joke. If your not old enough to need meds, great, once you are you live as long as you have pills. Anyone diabetic? Better hope you can run refrigeration.

And on and on and on.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Solar and a massive battery pack to start with. I know the solar will likely fail in the first day, but it is something. Powering the filters would be a low amp low voltage motor that kicks once in a while, likely manually as we read the o2 levels. Broadcasts on fm, am and sw for info when it's safe. Water is already stored and purified. For sanitation, a S bucket, trash bags, sealable 5 gl buckets, and that newish absorber stuffNow.

I am just proposing this, nothing is for certain, I am just batting this back and forth for both info and entertainment. It is Saturday and I'm bored, I am not a right wing prepper, really.

Call me debbie downer.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Carrington Event - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

more reading for bored people.

 

[WSS01]

Nukes don’t leave a ton of fallout especially if they are high altitude.


Every transmission line is going to carry that emp right into your setups controller. a bad lighting striker will follow long runs of copper fry the control or a solar flair will do the same. So have it unplugged and buried if that is your plan. But make sure you also shield your panels, which oh you have to go outside to setup, now you have to decon. Which is your bunker entrance an airlock that is positive pressure with filter air that only blows back outside? How much water do you have to decon? Waste in a bucket? That gets you a week? You can vacuum seal it I guess, but that’s more high power draw. Youre not controlling moisture or temp with low voltage sometimes on filtering. Who’s changing the filters? Where is this bunker btw? What soil? How did you set it up with out Carl noticing? Is the entrance hidden? What about the massive solar array? If you live in any populated area it’s not possible. That’s why the ruling class fleas to remote locations with no or super low population and even that is a joke. If your not old enough to need meds, great, once you are you live as long as you have pills. Anyone diabetic? Better hope you can run refrigeration.

And on and on and on.

Ya, I have studied to learn that the electrical side has to be independent of the grid. I would also install a master disconnect from the outside solar panels and the solar controller When you notice the power input drop to zero, disconnect. As far as going outside, Jeez. I have no clue. The outside prep post blast is going to be near non existent due to time constraints. In my head, I imagine putting out a few HT radios that someone could at least communicate with us in the bunker, but that says "there are people surviving somewhere" to those out in the open. Those poor folks are probably contaminated past redemption.

 

[WSS01]

Call me debbie downer.

I totally get it! That's what we are looking for a dose of reality with a little entertainment value.

 

[Hamburger Monster]

I think there is a lot of misconceptions surrounding EMPs and the effects they can cause

The voltage induced on a conductor will be maximized if it is parallel to the magnetic field lines. A high altitude burst, while it does cover a wider rage, it also decreases the strength. The strength follows the cube law and for every doubling of the distance decreases the strength to 1/4 the value. By the time it reaches the ground. It might be as low as 20k volts per meter or as high as 500k volts. Going to depend heavily on the size of the nuke and the altitude.

The voltage induced is well within the range lightning strikes provide. The grid with it's long runs will be hit the hardest. But the grid is also well equipped to handle this type of voltage. Every sub station and every poll transformer has grounding. And a short spike of voltage will be diverted to ground. Sure there can be a high voltage spike that makes it into your house. But surge protectors might help woth this.

How many here have been in a lightning storm where strikes where very close? A close lightning bolt will have it's own EMP that will induce voltage on conductors. Depending on the distance. The lightning EMP can be stronger then the nuke EMP. Of those who have been in one. How many lost electronics or appliances to one? It almost takes a direct strike and not an EMP to do actual damage

Another point to keep in mind. Is the more sensitive to over voltage an electronic piece of equipment is, the smaller it circuitry is too. This directly counters the effects because the smaller or better said, the shorter the conductor, the smaller the induced voltage. CPUs and other microprocessors have incredibly small conductors. The voltage is not likely going to be high enough to do any damage. Most will be able to power cycle the computer, phone or whatever and restore function. Modern vehicles from the last 25+ years are incredibly hardened against interference. They have lots of shielded wires and cables. The computers and harnesses are also tucked inside around lots of metal. This will on it's own provide a level of protection.

I read a study many years ago where a bunch of vehicles where put in a test chamber and subject to an EMP. Many of the vehicles continued to run. A handful shut off, but a turn of the key and the vehicle started back up. A smaller number had the have the battery disconnected first and they started afterwards. And I think only one vehicle failed to run after the test. I don't remember the age of the vehicles or make and model. But the testing was probably 30 years ago. Electronics have become more integrated into pur vehicles, but so has the shielding and protection.

I'm not sure how solar would fair. I suspect not much different then a local lightning strike. While panels have lots of exposed conductors, they also have a bunch that run parallel to each other and are connected together on the ends. This would, if aligned with the magnetic field of the EMP, would have a voltage on both lines that would then connect at one side. This would cancel out the voltage and no current would flow. There has to be a net imbalance for voltage. So the overall voltage would likely be less then what one would calculate from the total run. Think two wires both run together. Connected together at one end by let's say a solar panel. Send voltage of equal polarity down both wires. Nothing happens because no current will flow. +10KV opposing +10KV is 0 volts. So the actual voltage your solar or charger will see may very well be much less then one would calculate from the line distance. It very well might be within the voltage range of the SCC and no harm done.

For me, I'm not taking any specific approaches to deal with an EMP attack. If one was so strong to take out our cell phones. All the towers will likely be down too. If it was strong enough to permanently disable the grid. Our solar backup wouldn't likely survive. But I think an EMP attack is at the bottom of the list for what is likely to happen

 

[Darqhelmet]

I think there is a lot of misconceptions surrounding EMPs and the effects they can cause

The voltage induced on a conductor will be maximized if it is parallel to the magnetic field lines. A high altitude burst, while it does cover a wider rage, it also decreases the strength. The strength follows the cube law and for every doubling of the distance decreases the strength to 1/4 the value. By the time it reaches the ground. It might be as low as 20k volts per meter or as high as 500k volts. Going to depend heavily on the size of the nuke and the altitude.

The voltage induced is well within the range lightning strikes provide. The grid with it's long runs will be hit the hardest. But the grid is also well equipped to handle this type of voltage. Every sub station and every poll transformer has grounding. And a short spike of voltage will be diverted to ground. Sure there can be a high voltage spike that makes it into your house. But surge protectors might help woth this.

How many here have been in a lightning storm where strikes where very close? A close lightning bolt will have it's own EMP that will induce voltage on conductors. Depending on the distance. The lightning EMP can be stronger then the nuke EMP. Of those who have been in one. How many lost electronics or appliances to one? It almost takes a direct strike and not an EMP to do actual damage

Another point to keep in mind. Is the more sensitive to over voltage an electronic piece of equipment is, the smaller it circuitry is too. This directly counters the effects because the smaller or better said, the shorter the conductor, the smaller the induced voltage. CPUs and other microprocessors have incredibly small conductors. The voltage is not likely going to be high enough to do any damage. Most will be able to power cycle the computer, phone or whatever and restore function. Modern vehicles from the last 25+ years are incredibly hardened against interference. They have lots of shielded wires and cables. The computers and harnesses are also tucked inside around lots of metal. This will on it's own provide a level of protection.

I read a study many years ago where a bunch of vehicles where put in a test chamber and subject to an EMP. Many of the vehicles continued to run. A handful shut off, but a turn of the key and the vehicle started back up. A smaller number had the have the battery disconnected first and they started afterwards. And I think only one vehicle failed to run after the test. I don't remember the age of the vehicles or make and model. But the testing was probably 30 years ago. Electronics have become more integrated into pur vehicles, but so has the shielding and protection.

I'm not sure how solar would fair. I suspect not much different then a local lightning strike. While panels have lots of exposed conductors, they also have a bunch that run parallel to each other and are connected together on the ends. This would, if aligned with the magnetic field of the EMP, would have a voltage on both lines that would then connect at one side. This would cancel out the voltage and no current would flow. There has to be a net imbalance for voltage. So the overall voltage would likely be less then what one would calculate from the total run. Think two wires both run together. Connected together at one end by let's say a solar panel. Send voltage of equal polarity down both wires. Nothing happens because no current will flow. +10KV opposing +10KV is 0 volts. So the actual voltage your solar or charger will see may very well be much less then one would calculate from the line distance. It very well might be within the voltage range of the SCC and no harm done.

For me, I'm not taking any specific approaches to deal with an EMP attack. If one was so strong to take out our cell phones. All the towers will likely be down too. If it was strong enough to permanently disable the grid. Our solar backup wouldn't likely survive. But I think an EMP attack is at the bottom of the list for what is likely to happen

I lost a router, cable modem, and fridge in Texas to a ground strike in the back pasture. Had another storm roll through and blow the cap in the water heater.

I know the test you’re talking about and it’s apples to orange with current vehicles. But it is still a good read for sure and it does give hope that some to a decent amount of stuff survives local. The grid, not so much.

Northeast blackout of 2003 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

February 13–17, 2021 North American winter storm - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

The first one was a single point of failure that cascaded, no attack just bad/old infrastructure and human error. everything has to be brought back online slowly and tested or it re-trips the grid. who’s going out there to test and verify all the sub stations and plants during an attack?

I lived through the TX show, no power for 5 days and when it did come back on it wasn’t stable. The grid runs at 60hz +/- .05hz and will trip if it goes slightly beyond that and you have to slowly bring everything back on time and test or just retrips and you start all over.

So we don’t have power, we are being attacked, you think PG&E or Edison line men are out there doing the painful, slow, and dangerous work to turn the lights back on? assuming we aren’t getting nuked and nuking who ever we think EMP’ed us? If they even can get to where they need to and the pumps are moving NG to the plants to produce the power in the first place.

Again Debbie Downer, I know.