Implemented GAFS Policy - Editing Sold Listings!

[Plenty_Pack_556]

Are the feature uses going to be 1 time contribution or monthly contribution?

I don't think most gunowners would be willing to pay extra to get fair sell, buy, trade experience unless they do commercial sales of sort on the side to use it as a advertisement space of sort.

Hell, most gunowners are very reluctant to spend an extra $5 on a $200 gun part. Or $10 on a $300 gun.

So far on arfcom, haven't had a need for membership to use it fairly as others. Can access all parts of their classified forum, certain parts require you to have 5 feedbacks minimum.

I understand the changes that is to be put forth on certain features in the future.

 

[ikeo1]

I get needing a location for a sale, I won’t open a listing if the location isn’t close to me, I’d just like to remove my location once a sale is complete. My location isn’t relevant for historical sales data.

Yeah I think it’s ok to remove the location. It’s just the title, pic, and price. As long as that’s there feedback is useful post sale. When people replace it and feedback says sold sold sold. Then it really means nothing.

 

[ikeo1]

Are the feature uses going to be 1 time contribution or monthly contribution?

No. You’ll always get to use the system like you do now. It’s just expanded features. Everything you can do now will stay the same. The only limit would be on bumping. The more listings there are, free accounts will bump 2-4 days where contributors can bump daily. However, if you don’t like the daily, you can ignore that user to avoid their listings for free, even now.

I don't think most gunowners would be willing to pay extra to get fair sell, buy, trade experience unless they do commercial sales of sort on the side to use it as a advertisement space of sort.

So, people want to sell their items for free while they make hundreds or thousands of dollars? This is actually why it’s not good endeavor. Lol. You’re not wrong, there’s not enough money in this space because a lot of people don’t see the value even though they’re using it daily AND making $$. I thought I could make a business out of this, but it’s very limited and not a great idea. Nothing wrong with that. So I’m ok with it covering itself and low moderation to keep something going for CA 2A.

To be honest you can get by here too without the advanced features. Arf charges you minimum $24 for what you get here free.

Maybe if there’s too many users, I might have to move advanced search behind pay feature. You’ll always have keywords but the filters are run on a separate server.

 

[joefrank64k]

IMO: All listing and pricing information should be removed after the sale. I always deleted my FS posts on CalGuns after a sale (100% iTrader 250+ sales).

I never understood this obsession with leaving old listings/pricing up. The value of the item sold was what THAT buyer and THAT seller agreed to at THAT moment.

Example: I was selling a NIB K-22 Masterpiece.

Buyer #1 hits me up with, "You're asking too much, one just sold for less than yours."
Me: "That's awesome!! That means there's one less of those for sale, so the value of mine just went UP, haha!!"
Buyer #2, who was looking for a K-22 to fill a gap in his collection, contacted me and couldn't get his money out of his wallet fast enough.

If both listings/prices were left up, what does that tell you about the value of another K-22 in a month, six months, one year? Nothing, as far as I can tell.

My $0.02 and worth exactly that, haha!!

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

No. You’ll always get to use the system like you do now. It’s just expanded features. Everything you can do now will stay the same. The only limit would be on bumping. The more listings there are, free accounts will bump 2-4 days where contributors can bump daily. However, if you don’t like the daily, you can ignore that user to avoid their listings for free, even now.

So, people want to sell their items for free while they make hundreds or thousands of dollars? This is actually why it’s not good endeavor. Lol. You’re not wrong, there’s not enough money in this space because a lot of people don’t see the value even though they’re using it daily AND making $$. I thought I could make a business out of this, but it’s very limited and not a great idea. Nothing wrong with that. So I’m ok with it covering itself and low moderation to keep something going for CA 2A.

To be honest you can get by here too without the advanced features. Arf charges you minimum $24 for what you get here free.

Maybe if there’s too many users, I might have to move advanced search behind pay feature. You’ll always have keywords but the filters are run on a separate server.

Oh I wasn't sure what the change discussion was earlier, as i thought I read and was under impression that contributing members would be the only ones with access to price, past listing history.

And, i don't think most ca gunowners are making much if at all for profits unless they have alot of ammo stockpiled or off-roster firearms. Most probably looking to sell for almost equivalent amount they put into it, just to have funds for next purchase or other uses.

Owning guns shouldn't be considered for-profit investments, as i'm sure most regular joe gunowner is probably not looking to do.

But I did let you know I did plan to contribute if I do make profits in a PM other day, in which you replied there is no need at the moment as you may have a sponsor soon. So when I read contributing this and that, I just share my thoughts on it.

I will contribute when I have funds from a sale. Thus far, parts and guns on here have been selling at a loss lately, in which I take funds from past sales to cover. due to me wanting to just get rid of it fast.

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

But nevermind on my opinion, since I am a non-contributing member consider my opinions just words from the perspective of a cheapbloke.

 

[ikeo1]

But I did let you know I did plan to contribute if I do make profits in a PM other day, in which you replied there is no need as you may have a sponsor soon.

This still holds true. It's optional. I know a lot of people mostly getting their money back and if they want, they can kick in and you get something for your help but again not required. If it was required, then i think you're right we wouldn't have gained traction like we have.

We try to be fair. It's obvious to me there's to camps for just about every rule we have lol.. It's hard in this seat, but want to make it accessible for the community, while i still have time. Next year, my time for the site will be significantly less.

But nevermind on my opinion, since I am a non-contributing member consider my opinions just words from the perspective of a cheapbloke.

I always welcome feedback, since you contribute in the forums i take you more seriously than others who don't. So please don't think its all about contributions. There's plenty of members I've listened to and implemented suggestions who were not subscribers. You just have to make a good point and I'll listen. Caveat is, I might not go with it if there's consensus. The hard part here is a lot of times its 55/45 and I'm going to piss off someone. That's where I have to lean on my experience building sites.

P.S. I'm not a hipster with a dad bod in skinny jeans. My feelings are hurt i give off that energy! Someone get me a safe space!

 

[nubsoft]

You know on gafs, they allow thread crapping, or the ability to tell the seller the item is too high, or found cheaper on x or x, or to ask if the seller is out of their minds, etc on the listing itself.

Lol i hope this does NOT turn into Gafs threadcrapping. If i dont agree with someone’s price I’ll offer in the DMs , not post links on their thread. sometimes just let people try to get their money back and if it sits for months then so be it. People learn over time.

This also teaches prospective buyers that they need to do their homework.

I sell on a lot of different platforms and if a buyer is not being an asshat about an offer, ill gracefully take a $100 loss and drive back to work the next day.

 

[The Gleam]

Any SOLD items or unattended items (not bumped) after 90 days should be removed. Not simply closed or marked SOLD - deleted.

Any classified ads in the marketplace older that are useless as a resource and then merely take up data-storage.

Some argue they use that price-history as a price-resource; that's a terrible means for several reasons.

The sale price here may have been negotiated lower than what the advertised price showed, and even then, a single classified price is not a best example of what a multitude of people or a collective fair market is wiling to pay. A final auction price is a better measure of that, such as Gunbroker auctions. Anything longer than 90 days is already out of date. The 90 days retention at least allows both the buyer/sale evidence to debate a discrepancy or disagreement, but if they have not raised an issue within 90 days, it's likely there is no issue to raise any time thereafter.

Gunbroker does the same. After 90 days, it's gone. It's nobody's business what I paid for something 3 years ago, especially if I'm looking to sell something at some later date. Some idjit can do a search on some such thing on Gunauction.com and harp "we'll you only paid X for it in 2010, why you gouging me bro!" (in 2024) over mere inflationary increase and comparable market price by today's values.

It's also a privacy issue. Someone comes on here and sees just how many guns someone has bought historically, or what they bought, over a certain amount of time. That's why I never used iTrader on Calguns and told sellers to not leave me any feedback over the years. I don't need that kind of history to show I'm a good buyer of good standing; the seller will know just by my approach, communication, reliability, and punctuality with no quibbles about price or the item, each and every time, because it was vetted prior to meeting in person for the PPT in the first place.

So keep - but delete entirely after 90 days. Or address upfront by assigning a 90-day expiration/delete to every marketplace post. Is that possible?

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[ikeo1]

So keep - but delete entirely after 90 days. Or address upfront by assigning a 90-day expiration/delete to every marketplace post. Is that possible?

This already happens. You’re looking at the forum. In the classified side they automatically expire and move out. Subscribers have a longer expiration window.

We’ll phase out the forum marketplace soon enough. Only people from CGN use it, everyone else uses the classified filters. All the listings will eventually move off.

 

[ikeo1]

Ban hammer is going to come. People who delete their listings will be removed from classifieds. Period.

Just because you don’t like a rule doesn’t mean you can break it. Leave it up, ask for a rule change and if it is changed then change the listing. If you don’t agree, again there’s other sites with different rules.

I’m open to discussing rule changes. If you break the rules, they’ll be enforced. I hope that’s fair to people. If you don’t like it, don’t list until the rule is changed.

I don't need that kind of history to show I'm a good buyer of good standing; the seller will know just by my approach, communication, reliability, and punctuality with no quibbles about price or the item, each and every time, because it was vetted prior to meeting in person for the PPT in the first place.

do you know what social engineering is? These rules are to help be consistent. We may adjust them over time but please as a new comer making demands on rule changes isn’t the best approach.

 

[The Gleam]

This already happens. You’re looking at the forum. In the classified side they automatically expire and move out. Subscribers have a longer expiration window.

We’ll phase out the forum marketplace soon enough. Only people from CGN use it, everyone else uses the classified filters. All the listings will eventually move off.

Ahh! Good to know - I'll give that some exploration and digest on exploitation.

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[The Gleam]

Ban hammer is going to come. People who delete their listings will be removed from classifieds. Period.

Just because you don’t like a rule doesn’t mean you can break it. Leave it up, ask for a rule change and if it is changed then change the listing. If you don’t agree, again there’s other sites with different rules.

I’m open to discussing rule changes. If you break the rules, they’ll be enforced. I hope that’s fair to people. If you don’t like it, don’t list until the rule is changed.


do you know what social engineering is? These rules are to help be consistent. We may adjust them over time but please as a new comer making demands on rule changes isn’t the best approach.

Not making demands, suggestions only. Nor wont for breaking any rules. For that matter, I never sold on Calguns, but I was always a prolific buyer, so nothing of mine was for the power of deleting.

As for social engineering, I've honed analysis and defense against it as an art form, and in my professional capacity.

Not gonna do it. And I don't think I would need to - you've got a great site here, you're doing a fantastic job of it!

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[ikeo1]

Not making demands, suggestions only. Nor wont for breaking any rules. For that matter, I never sold on Calguns, but I was always a prolific buyer so nothing of mine was for the deleting.

As for social engineering, I've honed analysis and defense against it as an art form, and in my professional capacity.

Not gonna do it. And I don't think I would need to - you've got a great site here, you're doing a fantastic job of it!

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Thanks for that, mainly for social engineering is you’d be able to defend but most of all scams is that. People who talk good and don’t rely on objective measures like feedback system. I’m sure you’re a ladies man too! Lol

This is a very difficult subject, because I understand the logic of removing it but at the same time I do NOT want this place to become known for that and considered a black market where people sneak stuff. I can understand why other sites require you to pay.

If we required you to pay to list. I’d be ok with removing listings. There’s an element of CYA here that people don’t understand and is mostly based in self interest.

 

[The Gleam]

Thanks for that, mainly for social engineering is you’d be able to defend but most of all scams is that. People who talk good and don’t rely on objective measures like feedback system. I’m sure you’re a ladies man too! Lol

This is a very difficult subject, because I understand the logic of removing it but at the same time I do NOT want this place to become known for that and considered a black market where people sneak stuff. I can understand why other sites require you to pay.

If we required you to pay to list. I’d be ok with removing listings. There’s an element of CYA here that people don’t understand and is mostly based in self interest.

Ahhh got it! For your role and perspective it makes sense!

Ironically my perspective on it was solely from an honest 'good guy' user, for self-preservation, in order to not have a history of variables or intricate details about me that some social-engineering scammer or stalker could use against ME.

However, I see your point of how scamners would not want a history in order to have that advantage of contiguous anonymity to scam others, and usually in big ways. I'm sure Jason Veraldi, aka Expertish on Calguns, would love nothing more than to wipe out his notorious internet-wide scamming history, on gun sites and car sites, to continue his online scamming sprees ungoverned.

I bet he's grinning sardonically somewhere over his history on Calguns now being essentially unsearchable, wiped out.

Now I get your point it's for the greater good.

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[treelogger]

Some argue they use that price-history as a price-resource; that's a terrible means for several reasons.

The sale price here may have been negotiated lower than what the advertised price showed, and even then, a single classified price is not a best example of what a multitude of people or a collective fair market is wiling to pay. ...

Data is good. Sunshine is good. Even data that is of mediocre accuracy is good. Anyone who tries to estimate the fair market value of a gun will need to know how to correct for inflation, new versus used, rarity and collectible status, and the fact that listing price and sales price often diverge. Hiding the data never makes estimates more accurate, if the estimates are done by an intelligent person.

Some idjit can do a search on some such thing on Gunauction.com and harp "we'll you only paid X for it in 2010, why you gouging me bro!" (in 2024) over mere inflationary increase and comparable market price by today's values.

The same idjit (quote!) can go to various internet archives and find the MSRP for the gun, the common sales prices, and (depending on whether that particular auction site is archived or not) even your listing. Trying to delete it here makes finding it a little harder, but not much.

It's also a privacy issue. Someone comes on here and sees just how many guns someone has bought historically, or what they bought, over a certain amount of time.

Say a person has made thousands of posts here. In the posts, they have talked about their 100 guns, and described in detail how they like to shoot which models, with detailed technical reasons (ergonomics, triggers). They have discussed reloading, where to buy ammo cheaply, and that they bought ammo brand X but it didn't work in their gun, so they sold it to another shooter.

At this point, worrying about the fact that they have bought and sold a dozen guns on this site does not appreciably add to any privacy concerns.