Help me decide - first pistol

[Tere_Hanges]

I had not considered the SK as a CCW before, but these prices have me thinking about it. I was looking to get something on my license that does not have the CA features (mag disco, LCI). Was trying to research it, but found nothing on it. Do these models have any of these features? I was going to eventually grab a G26 to go on my requalification, but this looks good.

I just wonder about that hammer and possibly snagging. My snub is DAO for this reason.

My links are to the standard model not the sk. Both the standard and sk models are on sale. Get whichever one you want. No CA safety features. These are before that nonsense.

 

[tedder987]

Option 1. Bersa Firestorm 380 w/2 mags. $260. Cheap to buy but 380 ammo seems to start at $0.60/rd. Recommended by a friend that has one. Like the James Bond overtones.
Option 2. Glock 17 gen 3 w/2 mags. $500. Same friend hates glocks because of the angle. Didn't bother me but only fired 20 ish rounds. Like the reliability and simplicity.
Option 3. SW M&P 2.0 4.25" barrel w/3 mags: $590. Same friend loves it, I haven't fired this one. Seems like it would be nicer than the glock and not a ton more $$.

First, 380 is marginal for defense. I only use it in very small pocket guns. 9x19mm is the minimum and ammo is much cheaper. Second, Bersa is not a good manufacturer. I'm sure everyone with a Bersa is going to jump in and say "But mine works great!" Yeah, yeah, sure.

You said it yourself: you have large hands. This means the Glock 17 and M&P full size are more in line with your hand. Also consider that you are LEARNING to shoot a handgun. It's best to learn on a full sized gun with a longer barrel such as the 17 or M&P. You could consider the Glock 20 or 21 along with the Beretta 92FS or M9 and variants. However, you only mentioned two so I will stick with those.

"Getting a feel for the gun" in the gun store is USELESS. You don't even know how shoot! How can you evaluate a handgun? Of course you cannot. You're just guessing.

I have both guns. The S&W ain't no "Lexus". It's more of a Honda with nicer interior (back when they had better interiors).

Of the two, the M&P has a very aggressive grip texture. It does feature a thumb safety and has a slightly better trigger out of the box. It has ambidextrous controls and you can change the backstrap. The thumb safety can be a detriment if you forget to swipe it off. This happens in class and we can often see the student anticipating the recoil when this happens (the muzzle dips). You'll need to learn to shoot with your thumb ON the safety at all times. This prevents your hand riding up and accidentally activating it while shooting.

The Glock doesn't have all that. It doesn't really need it either. "Features" are nice options. You can get a grip sleeve for the Glock if your hands are so huge that you need it. Glock has tons of after market support for parts and holsters that far outdoes any support for the M&P.

Consider this great Glock 17 propaganda:

You Won't Believe How Much Abuse This Glock 17 Has Taken

Athlon Outdoors Exclusive Firearm Updates, Reviews & News

athlonoutdoors.com

This, of course, doesn't mean the M&P is not a great pistol. It is and it will serve you well. Both will be fine for learning. You can carry either; this notion that a carry gun must be tiny is for those who want a magical anti-criminal talisman rather than a gun for fighting. It's the entire point.

Next, I saw that people recommended the Beretta 92FS or M9. Sure, they're great guns and they're not the actual garbage military M9. However, keep in mind that at least only the Brigadier has a dovetailed front sight. This means you can replace it with a night sight. The other models have it milled into the slide so it cannot be removed. Also, they are double action/single action guns. You'll need to train hard with this to master shooting it. Mastering DA/SA shooting is a whole chapter in a book on shooting.

Either the Glock 17 or M&P will be fine. Of the two, I'd pick the Glock 17 over the M&P. My reasoning is 1) so easy to work on you can do it all yourself, 2) durability, 3) long term accuracy over the life of the barrel, 4) good shooting performance and 5) market support. It's very tough to beat all that.

Commit to acquiring 12 magazines (they're expendable items; the good news is Glock mags are some of the toughest around). You'll need at least 6 for training. I generally separate mags into two groups: defense and training. The defense mags are babied and loaded. The training mags are used and abused. Mark them. Buy one a month if you have to due to budgetary concerns. Get to at least 6 for training.

If you go with the Glock, get a few extra recoil spring assemblies, at least one of every spring, two full mag rebuild kits, some slide parts, and a few trigger springs. A guy in security class had a Glock 22 and the trigger spring broke during the warm up course of fire. It's a trivial fix. I avoid this by installing a NY-1 trigger spring and a Ghost 3.5# connector (increases trigger pull weight to 6.25#, but gives a smooth pull with very positive reset for faster shooting). The NY-1 trigger spring doesn't break like the OEM trigger spring. The cause is completely avoidable: change the spring every 5,000 rounds. This is part of the gun's maintenance schedule.

ATTEND TRAINING. Go to any Level 1 and 2 pistol course. Some are two days; some are consecutive single day classes. Doesn't matter; go two days in a row to get exposed to 16-20 hours of continuous training. You will learn more in those two 8-10 hour blocks than you will in 16-20 individual 1 hour sessions. The reason is you get tired, you're living with the gun, and you're being challenged to perform under all sorts of circumstances that do NOT involved standing in a booth shooting at a piece of paper. You're going to learn how your shoulders get tired, how you start flubbing shots in a long string and how to mitigate all that. You'll walk away with skills like how to safely draw your gun quickly from a belt holster, acquire the target and fire while extending the gun to the target, reloading quickly and efficiently, mitigating malfunctions, and so on.



Don't be dwamatic. It's just a 9mm handgun.

I'll leave you with this: there is much to learn in handgunnery. Most people never bother; they shoot 50 through the gun, clean it, load it up and stick it in a drawer. Don't be like this because they're clueless. They're taking no action to hone life saving skills; one should not be learning to fight while in the middle of a gun fight. Commit to it as you would a martial art. If you do so, you're going to meet many excellent people along the way. You're going to have a ton of fun and you will be far more capable of defending yourself than the average normie sleepwalking down the street. Your last words should not be "But he came out of nowhere!" No, your death should be in a pile of brass surrounded by maimed criminals flopping around screaming for their mommies.

Thank you for this long, but very good, response. Training is definitely in the future (I am a motorcycle instructor and believe strongly that if your gonna do a dangerous hobby you need to take it seriously, get professional coaching and practice, practice, practice).

 

[sonofeugene]

Hey, are you a member of BARF?

 

[tacticalb]

I'd really recommend to go to a indoor gun range that let's you choose and handle a few firearms in different calibers that you can rent out. Not trying to be a hater on anyone here but I have so many friends who got thier first handgun and got "recommend" or "suggested" to buy a glock 17 and 19 and absolutely hated it after purchasing it. My first handgun was a glock 21 and after much research, handling it in the store and then renting one to shoot and have a feel for it I absolutely fell in love with it and then purchased a brand new one for like 500$ and then continued my .45 ACP handgun search from there. I have shot many other calibers as well and the 45 acp just sat better with me. Really comes down to what you want, what you are going to use it for l, and what fits well in your hands. Hope this helps. Gl

 

[tedder987]

Hey, are you a member of BARF?

Unless you are talking about what happens after a long night of drinking, I don't even know what you are talking about

 

[Tere_Hanges]

I had not considered the SK as a CCW before, but these prices have me thinking about it. I was looking to get something on my license that does not have the CA features (mag disco, LCI). Was trying to research it, but found nothing on it. Do these models have any of these features? I was going to eventually grab a G26 to go on my requalification, but this looks good.

I just wonder about that hammer and possibly snagging. My snub is DAO for this reason.

Below are links to the SK models at Turners. At these prices I'd definitely get one over a Glock 26. Would not be concerned about the hammer at all in fact I consider that an advantage over a striker gun, not a negative. Also note on the DAO (LEM) models the hammer is bobbed. At $450 that 9mm LEM is very tempting. But I already have a 365.
9mm DA/SA https://www.turners.com/heckler-and-koch/hk-p2000sk-v3-9mm-3-3-barrel-1922711
9mm DAO (LEM) https://www.turners.com/heckler-and-koch/hk-p2000-sk-v2-lem-trigger-9mm-3-26-barrel-1922710
40 DAO (LEM) https://www.turners.com/heckler-and-koch/hk-p2000-sk-v2-lem-trigger-40s-w-3-26-barrel-1922712

 

[M_N04H]

Below are links to the SK models at Turners. At these prices I'd definitely get one over a Glock 26. Would not be concerned about the hammer at all in fact I consider that an advantage over a striker gun, not a negative. Also note on the DAO (LEM) models the hammer is bobbed. At $450 that 9mm LEM is very tempting. But I already have a 365.
9mm DA/SA https://www.turners.com/heckler-and-koch/hk-p2000sk-v3-9mm-3-3-barrel-1922711
9mm DAO (LEM) https://www.turners.com/heckler-and-koch/hk-p2000-sk-v2-lem-trigger-9mm-3-26-barrel-1922710
40 DAO (LEM) https://www.turners.com/heckler-and-koch/hk-p2000-sk-v2-lem-trigger-40s-w-3-26-barrel-1922712

I already bought it

 

[sonofeugene]

Unless you are talking about what happens after a long night of drinking, I don't even know what you are talking about

Sorry, I thought you would know. BARF stands for the Bay Area Riders Forum. Probably the largest motorcycle based forum in the world. And there are plenty of motorcycling instructors on the forum.

https://www.bayarearidersforum.com/forums/

An excellent group of dedicated moto cyclists.

 

[tedder987]

Now that you remind me, I might have heard of them back in the mid 90's when I lived in San Francisco. I am way further south now though (San Diego).

p.s. just bought (or started the 10 day countdown) a mac 1014 12 gauge (Turknelli, Benelli M4 clone), the other gun I was planning on getting this spring

 

[sonofeugene]

I thought you might have been one of the instructors I know.

 

[tedder987]

Unless you took your class in Chula Vista in the last couple of years, probably not. What do you ride?

 

[sonofeugene]

I used to ride a somewhat modified Honda ST1100. I gave it away while my wife was slowly dying from Alzheimer’s. I lplanned on getting a 1300 Yamaha after she passed but I had a stroke not long after she died. My stroke put an end to my riding. But I remain happy that I did have close to 40 years of accident free miles on a motorcycle. It was a daily joy.

 

[tedder987]

I rode from 1993-2001, most of that as my main transport, then stopped because of needing a car for the kids. Restarted in 2021 and dove back in starting with taking lessons and was invited to become an instructor to the beginner class 2 years ago. Current ride is a '16 BMW GS 1200 which is by far the best all-round bike I have ever ridden.

 

[BinMos]

+1 on the vote for 9mm

That said I know you mention a budget but I’d recommend renting them out at a local range. About 10 years ago when my good buddy and I first got into guns we were both torn on these exact handguns. We ended up going to a local range that rented out those in particular, tried out a few other options as well.

He ended up going with the M&P and I went for the g17. We both still have those handguns to this day.

Some of our other friends/family we’ve taken over time for the same experience completely hated the M&P/glocks and liked something like a CZ much more.

It’ll cost you another $50-75 or so but imo it’s very worth renting out to see what you find yourself most comfort behind from the getgo before spending $500+ (Especially in the off chance your life/that of your loved ones might depend on that $500 investment)

Buy my CZ Shadow 2 5" 9mm brand new. It's calling your name. You won't regret it.

 

[sonofeugene]

I’d get the Glock as your first handgun. They are super reliable, parts if you happen to need them are readily available, and if you are so inclined, accessories are also readily available.

I’d also suggest the 34 model. It has a longer distance between the sights than the 17 which will help with your aim.

 

[tedder987]

I have looked at the 34 as well, was wondering whether to go that way as its the same price as the 17. The question in my mind is whether the extra weight might make it a bit much for the wife, though it would have softer recoil. The goal is home defense and range toy though and it seems it would do both as well or better than the 17.

 

[BinMos]

I have looked at the 34 as well, was wondering whether to go that way as its the same price as the 17. The question in my mind is whether the extra weight might make it a bit much for the wife, though it would have softer recoil. The goal is home defense and range toy though and it seems it would do both as well or better than the 17.

Have you looked into a Canik TP9 SFX? It's solid, and has a better trigger than Glock out the box with some nice goodies like holster that comes a long with it

 

[sonofeugene]

Yep. That’s why I have two.

 

[tedder987]

Not sure if the CANIK METE SFX is the same thing, its the closest I can find locally. But its ~70% more expensive than a Glock so ... maybe in a year or two for pistol #2, but I feel like that extra $300 would be better spent on ammo, range time and training.

 

[tedder987]

Just found a TP9 locally, its only 25% more than the G17/34...