Hunter Biden Pardoned for Gun Crimes

[EM2...]

That’s the point. If we’re going to start talking like twinfin now it’s the Biden crime family. While Trump is gonna pardon himself or close the his own 34 felonies awaiting judgement and round and round we go.

So, what’s the actual point on a 2A site? Or should I close it now? I’m trying to give you guys room but it seems like, give an inch take a mile and it puts me in a tough situation cause it’s already shifting.

How about what you guys did this weekend? Would you do the same for your family?

Let’s try to humanize things here. Please

NO!
In my family we believe in accountability, and if, (a real big IF) a family member committed these same crimes we would expect for them to pay the price for those crimes.
Does one just toss out their principles simply because it is family? That would make us no better than them.
Accountability is one of many things that separate us from them.

Come on man.

 

[EM2...]

And for the record, and to get back into guns here, I would NOT consider any of the supposed gun crimes Hunter committed to be crimes at all.
The 2nd Amendment was supposed to keep the gov in check and any infringement thereof is unconstitutional and therefor illegitimate.
All of the ATF forms in my mind are not legal and are an infringement to our right to keep and bear arms.

 

[DuckDawg22]

Anyone with a brain knew this would happen, and now there's not a damn thing the left can say when Trump pardons the Jan 6 defendants on day 1, so all in all probably a win for the good guys.

 

[doser]

Anyone with a brain knew this would happen, and now there's not a damn thing the left can say when Trump pardons the Jan 6 defendants on day 1, so all in all probably a win for the good guys.

So its a win for everyone. American's are the good guys. Too many people lose site of that when getting into politics. I don't think Jan 6 is a fair comparison just based on the sheer number of people, but it is what it is.

 

[Vintagearms]

If your last name is Biden, you can get away with anything!

If you are not a Republican, you can get away with everything. Fixed it for you.

 

[Motion122]

Time to switch? Just kidding!

 

[Vintagearms]

And for the record, and to get back into guns here, I would NOT consider any of the supposed gun crimes Hunter committed to be crimes at all.
The 2nd Amendment was supposed to keep the gov in check and any infringement thereof is unconstitutional and therefor illegitimate.
All of the ATF forms in my mind are not legal and are an infringement to our right to keep and bear arms.

Should felons on parole be allowed to have guns? Convicted gang members? Should everyone be allowed to make or buy suppressors and machine guns? Where do you draw the line? We have to have SOME laws.

 

[tedster]

I think the main point of this is don't lie on your DROS forms. FFL's have a very important function in CA.

For me, I have to let the discussion go as it does relate to a lot of people who might mess up on their form. It happens. In this case it was a very stupid decision. Also, there's a lot of people looking to call me a hypocrite or the like when it comes to this kind of discussion.

Nobody is calling you a hypocrite.
It would be an excellent idea to have a dedicated thread for questions related to CA DROS forms.
Hunter B. was found guilty by a jury. He had the option to appeal.
None of us should have to ask themselves "What would you/we do?" We don't have pardoning power. Full stop right there.
To bring Trump into the equation is completely unprofessional, imo.

 

[tedster]

Should felons on parole be allowed to have guns? Convicted gang members? Should everyone be allowed to make or buy suppressors and machine guns? Where do you draw the line? We have to have SOME laws.

No, no and no. Unless you prefer a state of complete lawlessness.
The 2A does not make a distinction between law abiding citizens and/or criminals.
The moral frame work of our society and applied law makes the distinction.
We've got plenty of laws in CA. Laws are (usually) not the problem.

 

[Dvrjon]

Any rules and guidelines should be applied equally to everyone. Here’s a comparison of two 2A cases involving ATF Form 4473:

After a week-long trial, a federal jury in the District of Delaware found Robert Hunter Biden guilty (link) of three felonies connected with his illegal purchase of a firearm in October 2018, including making a false statement in the purchase of a firearm, making a false statement related to information required to be kept by a federally licensed firearms dealer, and possession of a firearm by a person who is an unlawful user of or addicted to a controlled substance.

“This case was about the illegal choices the defendant made while in the throes of addiction — his choice to lie on a government form when he bought a gun and the choice to then possess that gun,” said Special Counsel David C. Weiss. “It was these choices and the combination of guns and drugs that made his conduct dangerous. No one in this country is above the law. However, Hunter Biden should be no more accountable than any other citizen convicted of the same conduct.

So, Biden’s crimes were committed while “in the throes of addiction”.

Someone should ask Mr. Abramski if he would like to petition SCOTUS to review their decision on his case and clear his record because he wasn’t a druggie when he committed his crime.

Abramski offered to purchase a gun for his uncle. Form 4473 asked whether he was the “actual transferee/buyer” of the gun and warned that a straw purchaser (buying a gun on behalf of another) was not the actual buyer. Abramski falsely answered that he was the actual buyer. Abramski was convicted for knowingly making false statements “with respect to any fact material to the lawfulness of the sale” of a gun, 18 U.S.C. 922(a)(6), and for making a false statement “with respect to the information required ... to be kept” in the gun dealer’s records, section 924(a)(1)(A). The court sentenced him to concurrent five-year probation terms.

Argue the politics of this all you want, but, a couple of observations regarding 2A transgressions by Biden:

1. The federal Special Counsel said Biden was in the “throes of addiction,” so could he have actually had the mental capacity to know what he was doing was wrong?

2. Regardless, based on Abramski’s sentence, Biden should have gotten concurrent 5-year sentences of probation and a vacation at a drug rehab facility, because he, “should be no more accountable than any other citizen convicted of the same conduct”.

 

[colossians323]

Should felons on parole be allowed to have guns? Convicted gang members? Should everyone be allowed to make or buy suppressors and machine guns? Where do you draw the line? We have to have SOME laws.

To be clear, criminals did not lose there 2A rights at the founding of this country, why now if they have served their time?

Suppressors and machine guns should absolutely be legal to buy or make. Why shouldn't they?
Why should the government corner the market on ownership and be able to own better guns than its citizens if not to simply control them?

I own several machine guns, SBR's and suppressors, and it's damn sad that they have put them out of reach for the average citizen.
With the entry fee on transferable machine guns being around 15K for a Mac or a Sten, it is absolutely ridiculous,

 

[EM2...]

Should felons on parole be allowed to have guns? Convicted gang members? Should everyone be allowed to make or buy suppressors and machine guns? Where do you draw the line? We have to have SOME laws.

Felons on parole - no
They have not yet finished paying their debt to society for their crimes. Parole is an early release based on prior agreed upon conditions, one of which may be to do without firearms.

Felons fully released, paid their debt to society - yes
I believe that once a person has fully paid their debt to society for a crime they should have all of their rights restored.
If society cannot trust them to continue to behave then perhaps society should put on their big boy pants and either toughen up the sentencing or commit to the death penalty.

Convicted gang member - see above, they should fall into one of those categories
Once again, if society doesn't like it, they we should elevate the punishment or execute the offenders. Quit footing around.

Suppressors, "machine" guns (full auto), etc, cannon, howitzers, whatnot - yes
The 2nd Amendment does not draw a distinction among the types of arms of which we should be able to bear.
At the time it was not uncommon for men of wealth to have their own armies and ships.

Drawing the line - what ever your imagination and means shall be able to provide
Why do we allow others to dictate how we live our lives?
Who are these people that deem themselves important and above the rest of us that they may determine what is best for the rest of us?
If I had the means I would most definitely own tanks, and other heavy armaments.

 

[Subotai]

 

[Jimi Jah]

I don't know of a case where someone using drugs got prosecuted for lying on the form. I have heard of that charge getting applied with other felonies. The usual stacking effort.

Seems the TV lawyers seem to think this was an unusual case. The tax evasion is not.

Even if Joe didn't pardon Hunter Trump said he would.

 

[westsidearms]

I mean Joe was not wrong that the ATF rarely prosecutes people who lie on the 4473. That in itself means it is all pointless except to harass gun dealers. In the case of Hunter, the dealer would have no clue he was lying. However, what if he made a mistake and checked the drug box and the dealer missed it? The dealer gets in trouble. If he did check it and was honest, then the dealer should have denied the sale.

What irks me is acknowledging that no one cares about these asinine laws they pass. You want to keep guns out of the hands of bad guys except when it is your son. Then it is okay. Then why have these laws at all? Damned hypocrites.

 

[esyiam]

NO!
In my family we believe in accountability, and if, (a real big IF) a family member committed these same crimes we would expect for them to pay the price for those crimes.
Does one just toss out their principles simply because it is family? That would make us no better than them.
Accountability is one of many things that separate us from them.

Come on man.

Felons on parole - no
They have not yet finished paying their debt to society for their crimes. Parole is an early release based on prior agreed upon conditions, one of which may be to do without firearms.

Felons fully released, paid their debt to society - yes
I believe that once a person has fully paid their debt to society for a crime they should have all of their rights restored.
If society cannot trust them to continue to behave then perhaps society should put on their big boy pants and either toughen up the sentencing or commit to the death penalty.

Convicted gang member - see above, they should fall into one of those categories
Once again, if society doesn't like it, they we should elevate the punishment or execute the offenders. Quit footing around.

Suppressors, "machine" guns (full auto), etc, cannon, howitzers, whatnot - yes
The 2nd Amendment does not draw a distinction among the types of arms of which we should be able to bear.
At the time it was not uncommon for men of wealth to have their own armies and ships.

Drawing the line - what ever your imagination and means shall be able to provide
Why do we allow others to dictate how we live our lives?
Who are these people that deem themselves important and above the rest of us that they may determine what is best for the rest of us?
If I had the means I would most definitely own tanks, and other heavy armaments.

I agree. If my family committed a crime, was found guilty of it by a jury of their peers, and was afford due process like everyone else, well, go take the punishment on the chin like everyone else.

 

[Radman64]

Interesting. So Biden pardon's him so it removes a victory for Trump? That is an interesting concept. How many Trump supporters would Trump lose in pardoning Biden? Probably zero. Further, Trump doesn't need more votes. He is done.

I still think if I were an FFL that did not use Fastbound, I would definitely mention to my auditors if the President doesn't think anyone should ever be prosecuted for lying on the 4473, why do you care? LOL! Not that this scenario would ever happen unless they had proof the dealer knew the guy was a druggie.

Trump played him like a master when he said he would consider pardoning him just to make it go away, all Joe did was just make himself look even more dirty by doing just that when he said so many times he wouldn't.
On a 2A flip side Joe also promised to be the one who would destroy the NRA once and for all, only thing that happened there was they left NY and relocated to Texas removing state revenue they are bleeding out left & right.
Connecticut lost S&W, why Colt is still there raises questions in my mind and how they still operate under the State laws when that was the main reason S&W left.
Springfield is another based in a state that hates what they produce at the legislative level, only a matter of time they split also imo.
What they don't get is all that happens is those they don't like just move to a different state removing a ton of income leaving folks jobless that for generations it was all they knew and where they worked.
I saw it in this State 40+ years ago, 1st it was the Mining industry (started in the 60's/70's), next was the Timber industry (in the early 80's) then the closing of oil & gas manufacturing, the majority of any effected was it was their only income going back generations in very small towns, I saw it first hand.

 

[RickD427]

That’s the point. If we’re going to start talking like twinfin now it’s the Biden crime family. While Trump is gonna pardon himself or close the his own 34 felonies awaiting judgement and round and round we go.

So, what’s the actual point on a 2A site? Or should I close it now? I’m trying to give you guys room but it seems like, give an inch take a mile and it puts me in a tough situation cause it’s already shifting.

How about what you guys did this weekend? Would you do the same for your family?

Let’s try to humanize things here. Please

Soon-to-be-again President Trump cannot pardon himself on those 34 felonies.

Please review the limits placed upon the Presidential pardon authority contained in Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution.

 

[tedster]

The 2A is our most quintessential right to self defense, anchored in the US Constitution.
“Shall not be infringed”
Anybody paying attention can see where this is going,
Defund law enforcement, let criminals roam freely, prosecute American citizens for defending themselves.
Anti-Americanism has been on the rise since decades. It’s hidden in plain sight.

 

[tedster]

Soon-to-be-again President Trump cannot pardon himself on those 34 felonies.

Please review the limits placed upon the Presidential pardon authority contained in Article II, Section 2 of the U.S. Constitution.

34 phony faloneys