Is the P320 market dead?

[packy14]

Haha what market? That implies anyone wants them. There is no market. Only a tombstone and cautionary tale.

 

[couragewolf]

So uhhhh anyone looking for a p320 ALS holster? Ranger green and outfitted for an x300 with a red dot hood (obviously)

 

[DEADPOOL1977]

FFL’s state that only older models have issues and Sig is repairing for free.

I love my P320XF. Mine is CA model with thumb safety.

Heard only ones with problems have been without thumb safety.

Sig won’t do a buy back cause they are willing to repair. See website to see if yours qualifies.

Personally I won’t buy another 320 but I carry mine everyday.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

Has it been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that newer or upgraded Sig P320 are good to go?

I generally like Sig products, not a fan boy, but have owned more than my share over the years.

So, are they safe now? I feel like the problem got blown our of proportion as a lot of the big stories (not all) have been proven false, i.e. person lied, or UD was explained away through testing.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Has it been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that newer or upgraded Sig P320 are good to go?

I generally like Sig products, not a fan boy, but have owned more than my share over the years.

So, are they safe now? I feel like the problem got blown our of proportion as a lot of the big stories (not all) have been proven false, i.e. person lied, or UD was explained away through testing.

The shadow seems slight, where some see it and some don't.

I see it....and whats great is that there are so many other options out there everyone can choose for themselves.

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

The shadow seems slight, where some see it and some don't.

I see it....and whats great is that there are so many other options out there everyone can choose for themselves.

Just seems like there is a lot of conflicting information out there. In the beginning, there were a lot of stories about the issue, but it seems most were proven false over time.

I know a couple of people with the Sig P320 platform who have never had an issue, nor do I know of anyone personally or a friend of a friend, etc that had seen the issue first hand.

I bagged hard on Sig when this was first reported because of the way they handled the press about it, i.e. the ostrich defense.

I actually really like the Sig P320 X5 Legion but want it to have a clean bill of health so to speak before purchase.

 

[Ron Swanson]

Just seems like there is a lot of conflicting information out there. In the beginning, there were a lot of stories about the issue, but it seems most were proven false over time.

I know a couple of people with the Sig P320 platform who have never had an issue, nor do I know of anyone personally or a friend of a friend, etc that had seen the issue first hand.

I bagged on Sig when this was first reported because of the way they handled the press abour it, i.e. the ostrich defense.

I actually really like the Sig P320 X5 Legion but want it to have a clean bill of health so to speak before purchase.

Yeah i know what you mean, I really wanted a 320 AXG legion and in the middle of all of this there were some posted at a price I was willing to pay, but didn't due to "the shadow".

 

[treelogger]

Has it been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that newer or upgraded Sig P320 are good to go?

No. Has it been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that any P320s had problems? No. Do you even know how to define "good to go"? Is there any handgun that has an absolute zero probability of ever firing at the wrong time? No, because quality control techniques can never get to absolute zero. How many nines do you want? In what use case?

The problem is: this is not a criminal trial, where the standard is "beyond any reasonable doubt". With that high standard, fundamentally nothing that is inherently statistical in nature can even be proven. Most P320s never had an uncommanded discharge. Maybe 1 in a 100 or 1 in a 1000 did, but hundreds of thousands of them (or millions?) were made and sold. If we had really good data on all those discharges, we might be able to figure out patterns, using solid data analysis techniques. But we have very little data; and that little bit is even being hidden, either because of law suits, or because Sig is actively trying to sweep it under the rug (can't blame them). One example of such an analysis is the thing from Bruce Gray above. But I don't know how much data he has, and I know that he's deeply involved with Sig (and has been for decades), and has a strong financial and personal interest, so his posting is not of the quality of "unbiased expert testimony" in a trial (and it might even be a complete lie, can't tell). So "beyond a shadow of a doubt", we had to admit to knowing nothing.

And also not a civil trial, where the standard is "preponderance of evidence", meaning 51% probability. In a real-world civil trial, the question isn't going to be "do P320s fire without the user wanting to". Instead, the question is "in this particular situation, with the particular plaintiff and the particular defendant, did one side perform a wrongful act that led to a civil liability". Some of these questions will get answered by the court system slowly; many more will get settled out of court, because driving a civil case to conclusion is expensive, and settling usually better for both sides. But I'm not a plaintiff or defendant on any of these cases.

Matter-of-fact, for me the decision whether to buy or to sell a P320 is a complex tradeoff, and the chance of an uncommanded discharge is only one factor among many others, some of which are financial (they are pretty cheap right now, but used to be quite expensive for a mediocre plastic fantastic), some are what do I want to do with it (I'm not interested in holstering it or using it as a carry gun), and some are my risk tolerance in my particular usage pattern.

 

[DesertDepotArms]

The P320 was one of the most popular competition guns for a while there. It will probably be again. There was allot of knee jerking by ranges.
The gun community is good at one thing eating its own and spreading FUDD and lots of it.

I just so happens the ad running as I type this is for a Mason Lane (big P320 shooter) who is hosting a class at Richmond Rod and gun who were one of the ranges to ban the P320 early on. I wonder if they lifted that that could be awkward if he shows up to teach a class with a gun that they banned....

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

No. Has it been proven beyond a shadow of a doubt that any P320s had problems? No. Do you even know how to define "good to go"? Is there any handgun that has an absolute zero probability of ever firing at the wrong time? No, because quality control techniques can never get to absolute zero. How many nines do you want? In what use case?

The problem is: this is not a criminal trial, where the standard is "beyond any reasonable doubt". With that high standard, fundamentally nothing that is inherently statistical in nature can even be proven. Most P320s never had an uncommanded discharge. Maybe 1 in a 100 or 1 in a 1000 did, but hundreds of thousands of them (or millions?) were made and sold. If we had really good data on all those discharges, we might be able to figure out patterns, using solid data analysis techniques. But we have very little data; and that little bit is even being hidden, either because of law suits, or because Sig is actively trying to sweep it under the rug (can't blame them). One example of such an analysis is the thing from Bruce Gray above. But I don't know how much data he has, and I know that he's deeply involved with Sig (and has been for decades), and has a strong financial and personal interest, so his posting is not of the quality of "unbiased expert testimony" in a trial (and it might even be a complete lie, can't tell). So "beyond a shadow of a doubt", we had to admit to knowing nothing.

And also not a civil trial, where the standard is "preponderance of evidence", meaning 51% probability. In a real-world civil trial, the question isn't going to be "do P320s fire without the user wanting to". Instead, the question is "in this particular situation, with the particular plaintiff and the particular defendant, did one side perform a wrongful act that led to a civil liability". Some of these questions will get answered by the court system slowly; many more will get settled out of court, because driving a civil case to conclusion is expensive, and settling usually better for both sides. But I'm not a plaintiff or defendant on any of these cases.

Matter-of-fact, for me the decision whether to buy or to sell a P320 is a complex tradeoff, and the chance of an uncommanded discharge is only one factor among many others, some of which are financial (they are pretty cheap right now, but used to be quite expensive for a mediocre plastic fantastic), some are what do I want to do with it (I'm not interested in holstering it or using it as a carry gun), and some are my risk tolerance in my particular usage pattern.

I get what you are saying, but no other gun currently has the controversy around it in regards to a real, if not blown out of proportion design flaw, or more specifically it's inherent design flaw to UD.

Sig could have handled this 1000% better, released the upgrade "Fix" and moved on instead of gas lighting the consumers.

I'm interested in if newer models, or upgraded models are good to go. I understand that any manufacturer can produce a lemon i.e. stacking tolerances, QC, bad heat treatment, etc. I'm strictly asking from a design perspective if the KNOWN problem is fixed and one does not need to worry about a UD from a design perspective.