Question My FFL said this is illegal

[KingRansom]

That’s what I would’ve thought, but apparently this is not 100% correct based on some of the replies here. If he has no pistol lower and only owns rifle lowers it could be an issue to possess the short barrel upper.

This is 100%, what's wrong with our gun laws in California. And I think it's done this way on purpose. But there's far too much ambiguity. This should be definitely a black and white issue that any of us who are CA guns participants should be able to easily answer. I just can't see how owning something like an upper that's less than 16in can be illegal if it's just sitting there by itself regardless of whether you own a pistol lower, or have rifle lowers. But stupider than that are on the books in California so nothing would surprise me

 

[ton809]

Your FFL must have assumed that you were going to pin it to a lower receiver that was dros'd as a rifle and not a pistol lower. Until someone does so, it's absolutely 100% legal to own a complete upper of any length as long as you don't violate the law using it in a manner that would create an SBR

He knew I had a pistol lower ready for pickup he wanted to cancel that Dros, he said the pistol lower even though it’s documented as a pistol that doj still sees it as a rifle lower if I ever get caught or pulled over etc

 

[Steeltoe]

I’ve seen local gun shops selling AR pistols configured with the kali key to make it single shot only. FFL sounds goofy

 

[AR15barrels]

Or don’t get a SBR at all here due to the law you said

You can have an SBR registered in a different state than your primary residence.
You can bring that SBR back into CA as long as it's never configured as an SBR under the CA laws unless you also get a dangerous weapons permit in CA.

Practical example: I have several self-made pistols following the AR/AK/HK/UZI patterns that are first registered self-made firearms and also registered assault weapons and also registered SBR's in another state.
These are valid ways to have short barrels around and they all indeed have barrels shorter than 16" on them.
When I visit the state where they are registered as SBR's, I can affix the stocks to them.
Due to recent changes to the NFA reporting requirements, I no longer need to obtain permission to travel across state lines with them configured as SBR's as long as the travel is less than 1 year in duration.
So basically, I can visit all NFA friendly states with them in a title 2 SBR configuration for less than a year and then I pull the stock off before I come back into CA.
In CA, I only use the braces.

AOW's are actually exempt of the CA SBS and SBR law.
AOW's have no federal transport restrictions at all.
That's a reason to manufacture an AOW in another state and then keep it here.
Even better yet, do that with a CA registered AW from 2001 or before and you can have a fully functional AOW in CA.

 

[FonzV88]

Another question for you folks
I ordered a complete upper online 7.5in, my FFL received it and I went to pickup, as soon as I open the box he said it was illegal and they should have not shipped it to me, and if I have anyone out of state to receive this, I told him I’m going to take it home, he really was almost against this saying there’s no legal way to have this,
I proceeded to tell him I Drosed a stripped semi Ar pistol lower through ppt and my pickup was tomorrow
He said he can cancel the Dros if id like because it’s illegal and that the FFL who did the transfer will get in trouble. He said it’s does NOT matter if the FFL put pistol/handgun that it’s still a rifle in DOJs eyes. He said even maglocked with brace etc is Ilegal and that the only legal way to have a pistol is Ca7.

He said the doj is now going to know I have a 7.5 barrel and that they can come to my house and ask to see it.

He made me feel bad about building my lower now lol

Post their name

 

[Warpspeed]

Since the OP isn't going to name the FFL, should we close this or let the circle continue ?

 

[grandpapeepap]

WE WANT A NAME, GIVE US A NAME

 

[AR15barrels]

This is 100%, what's wrong with our gun laws in California. And I think it's done this way on purpose. But there's far too much ambiguity. This should be definitely a black and white issue that any of us who are CA guns participants should be able to easily answer. I just can't see how owning something like an upper that's less than 16in can be illegal if it's just sitting there by itself regardless of whether you own a pistol lower, or have rifle lowers. But stupider than that are on the books in California so nothing would surprise me

How about reading the actual law regarding exactly this?
The law is actually pretty clearly written and easy to understand.

California Code, Penal Code - PEN § 17170​

Current as of January 01, 2025 | Updated by Findlaw Staff

As used in this part, “short-barreled rifle” means any of the following:

(a) A rifle having a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(b) A rifle with an overall length of less than 26 inches.
(c) Any weapon made from a rifle (whether by alteration, modification, or otherwise) if that weapon, as modified, has an overall length of less than 26 inches or a barrel or barrels of less than 16 inches in length.
(d) Any device that may be readily restored to fire a fixed cartridge which, when so restored, is a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive.
(e) Any part, or combination of parts, designed and intended to convert a device into a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, or any combination of parts from which a device defined in subdivisions (a) to (c), inclusive, may be readily assembled if those parts are in the possession or under the control of the same person.

If you don't think that part in bold is CA's version of "constructive possession of an SBR", I don't know what else to tell you.

 

[weaverftw]

WE WANT A NAME, GIVE US A NAME

WE WANT BLOOD

 

[Gawernator]

That’s what I would’ve thought, but apparently this is not 100% correct based on some of the replies here. If he has no pistol lower and only owns rifle lowers it could be an issue to possess the short barrel upper.

Yeah could be, though it's like a 0.001% chance of getting convicted, it's like one of those charges you get if you're a drug dealer and they search your whole house and want to roast you

 

[Gawernator]

You can have an SBR registered in a different state than your primary residence.
You can bring that SBR back into CA as long as it's never configured as an SBR under the CA laws unless you also get a dangerous weapons permit in CA.

Practical example: I have several self-made pistols following the AR/AK/HK/UZI patterns that are first registered self-made firearms and also registered assault weapons and also registered SBR's in another state.
These are valid ways to have short barrels around and they all indeed have barrels shorter than 16" on them.
When I visit the state where they are registered as SBR's, I can affix the stocks to them.
Due to recent changes to the NFA reporting requirements, I no longer need to obtain permission to travel across state lines with them configured as SBR's as long as the travel is less than 1 year in duration.
So basically, I can visit all NFA friendly states with them in a title 2 SBR configuration for less than a year and then I pull the stock off before I come back into CA.
In CA, I only use the braces.

AOW's are actually exempt of the CA SBS and SBR law.
AOW's have no federal transport restrictions at all.
That's a reason to manufacture an AOW in another state and then keep it here.
Even better yet, do that with a CA registered AW from 2001 or before and you can have a fully functional AOW in CA.

This is too much aids

I'm just gonna use my RAW Sig M400 with 16" barrel lol. CA won on that front, and can't have a suppressor anyways so it's pointless

 

[AR15barrels]

This is too much aids

Isn't that an STD?

 

[Gawernator]

Isn't that an STD?

sorry, generational slang. Meaning something that sucks and not fun

 

[grandpapeepap]

Isn't that an STD?

it can also be transferred by blood to blood contact with no sexual relations happening but its probably mostly sexual contact.

 

[chiroken007]

it can also be transferred by blood to blood contact with no sexual relations happening but its probably mostly sexual contact.

So blood pacts are not a good idea?

 

[grandpapeepap]

So blood pacts are not a good idea?

id have them give you a recent blood test panel before doing any blood pacts, unless you feel like gambling and risking it. But hey thats me.

 

[weaverftw]

it can also be transferred by blood to blood contact with no sexual relations happening but its probably mostly sexual contact.

Let’s be honest, it’s from doing butt stuff

 

[Constitutional Armory]

He would be incorrect on all fronts there. DOJ does check what it is registered as (if for whatever reason they are looking into your firearm), and it is in no way illegal. He is basically saying the only legal way of owning an AR pistol in the state is with the Franklin CA7, which is blatantly false. What you're doing is perfectly legal, it is perfectly legal to buy a pistol upper whether you own a registered pistol lower or not, and since you are getting a registered pistol lower, you absolutely can build an AR pistol here as long as you follow the rules surrounding it. This sounds like one of the many FFLs here that unfortunately give out bad info and are making things unnecessarily difficult for law abiding gun owners for no reason other than their own ignorance.

I'd just try to get the upper sent to a different FFL in the area that isn't so handicapped. Don't let one idiot kill your enthusiasm

The whole thing is when you actually commit the criminal offense is when it becomes illegal so having a sb itself is not illegal it's what you do with it and put it on and parts when it's all connected

 

[Constitutional Armory]

people-v-sifuentes

heres a case where someone in california got popped for "constructive intent" but was able to appeal it and get it overturned cause the prosecution couldnt prove they were about to use it. Remember having a good lawyer is a godsend in this country

Its sad but that's a very important knowledge to have is the crime is not a crime until the crime has happened simply having a sb is not a crime but how you assemble finalize it is wether it's a crime.

 

[weaverftw]

Its sad but that's a very important knowledge to have is the crime is not a crime until the crime has happened simply having a sb is not a crime but how you assemble finalize it is wether it's a crime.

The whole thing is when you actually commit the criminal offense is when it becomes illegal so having a sb itself is not illegal it's what you do with it and put it on and parts when it's all connected

This SHOULD be the way our legal system works, but it’s not. You could get popped with a constructive intent charge depending on the circumstances. So much of this is gray area and up to the discretion of DAs/judges it’s crazy, how are we supposed to navigate these laws and regulations (we’re not supposed to, that’s the point).