Need some help on 30 day hold...first one ever

[GoatInTheMachine]

Hey all, apologies if this has been asked a million times, but I wanted to explain my specific situation before asking for advice.

I moved to California from New Mexico in 2020. I’ve been a gun owner my entire adult life. Recently I purchased a CA-compliant Rost Martin 9mm online from a dealer in Texas and had it shipped to my local FFL in Napa.

Eight days into the 10-day waiting period, my FFL called and said CA DOJ placed a 30-day undetermined hold on the firearm. The 30 days will be up June 7th.

Background: over 10 years ago in New Mexico, I was convicted of misdemeanor assault on a healthcare worker. This was not some random violent attack — I was in a medical situation where staff were trying to forcibly catheterize me, things escalated, and I reacted physically in the moment and not intending to, kneed a male nurse. No weapons, no serious injuries, nothing like people probably picture hearing the charge.

Seven years later I hired the same DA who originally prosecuted me (he had since gone into criminal defense) to help me expunge the conviction. The judge granted the expungement/sealing immediately after reviewing the case. This was 10 years ago.

My attorney told me:

• it was not a disqualifying offense for firearm ownership
• it was a misdemeanor, not a felony
• enough time had passed
• and the expungement/sealing restored me for employment/background purposes

I understand DOJ can still see sealed records and I assume the delay is because they’re manually reviewing an old out-of-state case and verifying the disposition.

My question is: has anyone here dealt with a similar CA DOJ undetermined hold involving an old expunged out-of-state misdemeanor? Did it eventually clear, get denied, or go undetermined after the 30 days? If the sale has to be canceled is it up to the FFL which fees I lose and which might be refunded? And lastly I'm getting conflicting info on this part- is it up to the discretion of my FFL dealer if they want to release to me on an undetermined hold that goes past the 30 days?

Any help anyone could provide would be greatly appreciated. I ended up giving all of my firearms to my dad when I moved to CA so I am just trying to start my collection again. Thanks!

 

[Deleted member 16735]

It's up to the FFL if they want to release on undetermined so if you FFL is fine with that then it will be OK. If they actually found something they would have just rejected you most likely the undetermined thing is unfortunately somewhat common. I have a violent misdemeanor that was never expunged and pass the checks. It was of course 25 years ago but it showed up on my CCW application and I still got that too. Fun Fact: if your dad still lives out of state he can gift you firearms through an familial transfer, these can be off the roster too. He would have to send to a local FFL but it's a common transfer and shouldn't have issues, as long as this one goes through of course.

 

[RickD427]

Hey all, apologies if this has been asked a million times, but I wanted to explain my specific situation before asking for advice.

I moved to California from New Mexico in 2020. I’ve been a gun owner my entire adult life. Recently I purchased a CA-compliant Rost Martin 9mm online from a dealer in Texas and had it shipped to my local FFL in Napa.

Eight days into the 10-day waiting period, my FFL called and said CA DOJ placed a 30-day undetermined hold on the firearm. The 30 days will be up June 7th.

Background: over 10 years ago in New Mexico, I was convicted of misdemeanor assault on a healthcare worker. This was not some random violent attack — I was in a medical situation where staff were trying to forcibly catheterize me, things escalated, and I reacted physically in the moment and not intending to, kneed a male nurse. No weapons, no serious injuries, nothing like people probably picture hearing the charge.

Seven years later I hired the same DA who originally prosecuted me (he had since gone into criminal defense) to help me expunge the conviction. The judge granted the expungement/sealing immediately after reviewing the case. This was 10 years ago.

My attorney told me:

• it was not a disqualifying offense for firearm ownership
• it was a misdemeanor, not a felony
• enough time had passed
• and the expungement/sealing restored me for employment/background purposes

I understand DOJ can still see sealed records and I assume the delay is because they’re manually reviewing an old out-of-state case and verifying the disposition.

My question is: has anyone here dealt with a similar CA DOJ undetermined hold involving an old expunged out-of-state misdemeanor? Did it eventually clear, get denied, or go undetermined after the 30 days? If the sale has to be canceled is it up to the FFL which fees I lose and which might be refunded? And lastly I'm getting conflicting info on this part- is it up to the discretion of my FFL dealer if they want to release to me on an undetermined hold that goes past the 30 days?

Any help anyone could provide would be greatly appreciated. I ended up giving all of my firearms to my dad when I moved to CA so I am just trying to start my collection again. Thanks!

Please check out Mr. "Michael777's" other thread on this issue. It has a lot of the information that you're seeking.

In that thread I discussed how the "Rap Sheet" records get assembled and reviewed.

I've seen a lot of situations like yours, and the the typical outcome is that a record was opened on your rap sheet that was never fully closed.

California law does not recognize an expungement as restoring firearms rights. The nomenclature of "Assault on a Health Care Worker" could be a felony if committed in California, and in certain locations (refer to Penal Code section 243(c)(1). This would be one of those interpretive issues I discussed in my other posting. If the DOJ employee could not identify the differences in New Mexico law and California law, they would have a basis to find 'Undetermined."

It's also quite possible that the New Mexico court did not enter the result of the court trial, indicating that you still have an open charge (this is, by far, the most common source of error).

Your criminal liability for the New Mexico conduct is governed by New Mexico law, but not all California officials are well versed in New Mexico law.

 

[GoatInTheMachine]

Please check out Mr. "Michael777's" other thread on this issue. It has a lot of the information that you're seeking.

In that thread I discussed how the "Rap Sheet" records get assembled and reviewed.

I've seen a lot of situations like yours, and the the typical outcome is that a record was opened on your rap sheet that was never fully closed.

California law does not recognize an expungement as restoring firearms rights. The nomenclature of "Assault on a Health Care Worker" could be a felony if committed in California, and in certain locations (refer to Penal Code section 243(c)(1). This would be one of those interpretive issues I discussed in my other posting. If the DOJ employee could not identify the differences in New Mexico law and California law, they would have a basis to find 'Undetermined."

It's also quite possible that the New Mexico court did not enter the result of the court trial, indicating that you still have an open charge (this is, by far, the most common source of error).

Your criminal liability for the New Mexico conduct is governed by New Mexico law, but not all California officials are well versed in New Mexico law.

Yes I did read that post and section enjoy the rap sheets. Very frustrating, I’m very much used to •buy firearm •dealer runs NCIC check •walk out with your firearm, most I think I’ve ever been delayed is the 72hrs from the FBI. But thanks for your info I’ll check out your other posts!

 

[GoatInTheMachine]

It's up to the FFL if they want to release on undetermined so if you FFL is fine with that then it will be OK. If they actually found something they would have just rejected you most likely the undetermined thing is unfortunately somewhat common. I have a violent misdemeanor that was never expunged and pass the checks. It was of course 25 years ago but it showed up on my CCW application and I still got that too. Fun Fact: if your dad still lives out of state he can gift you firearms through an familial transfer, these can be off the roster too. He would have to send to a local FFL but it's a common transfer and shouldn't have issues, as long as this one goes through of course.

It's up to the FFL if they want to release on undetermined so if you FFL is fine with that then it will be OK. If they actually found something they would have just rejected you most likely the undetermined thing is unfortunately somewhat common. I have a violent misdemeanor that was never expunged and pass the checks. It was of course 25 years ago but it showed up on my CCW application and I still got that too. Fun Fact: if your dad still lives out of state he can gift you firearms through an familial transfer, these can be off the roster too. He would have to send to a local FFL but it's a common transfer and shouldn't have issues, as long as this one goes through of course.

Hey thanks, that makes me feel a lot better! My dad, who has Alzheimer’s, lives in the same NorCal town as me. In his confusion, he gave our guns to his sister in Arizona for safekeeping before moving here. I’ve been fine with that, but there were two handguns and an 80% lower AR build in .556 with nice optics that are in my collection that I would like to get back.

I assume familiar transfers are only between immediate family, but I’m just starting to learn how to navigate California’s complicated laws.

I’m guessing that CA would not like me having an ar build with no serial number on it so I guess it’s kind of good I lost it in a tragic boating accident!! I’ll still look into seeing if maybe she can send our guns to him through an FFL. Thanks for all of your help man

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Hey thanks, that makes me feel a lot better! My dad, who has Alzheimer’s, lives in the same NorCal town as me. In his confusion, he gave our guns to his sister in Arizona for safekeeping before moving here. I’ve been fine with that, but there were two handguns and an 80% lower AR build in .556 with nice optics that are in my collection that I would like to get back.

I assume familiar transfers are only between immediate family, but I’m just starting to learn how to navigate California’s complicated laws.

I’m guessing that CA would not like me having an ar build with no serial number on it so I guess it’s kind of good I lost it in a tragic boating accident!! I’ll still look into seeing if maybe she can send our guns to him through an FFL. Thanks for all of your help man

the rules are a little weird but the intrafamilial transfers can only happen with "vertical" family so your sister to your father and your father to you but not your sister to you I believe. https://www.calgunlawyers.com/guide-to-intrafamilial-firearm-transfers-in-california/ . There actually is a process for serializing self-made firearms when you are moving into the state but I don't believe you can transfer them now, but you could if it were serialized out of state which wouldn't actually be hard, most FFLs should be able to do it. That plus a comp mag and it would be legal to transfer. As far as being denied based on your criminal history, it's possible that your offense would have resulted in a ban but most of the "violent" misdemeanors only result in a 10 year ban which should have already passed. There are a handful like domestic violence that would be a lifetime ban. But the other commenter here is more knowledgeable on the nuances of that whole thing. You will just have to see what happens, hopefully it is just a delay and not a deny

 

[GoatInTheMachine]

the rules are a little weird but the intrafamilial transfers can only happen with "vertical" family so your sister to your father and your father to you but not your sister to you I believe. https://www.calgunlawyers.com/guide-to-intrafamilial-firearm-transfers-in-california/ . There actually is a process for serializing self-made firearms when you are moving into the state but I don't believe you can transfer them now, but you could if it were serialized out of state which wouldn't actually be hard, most FFLs should be able to do it. That plus a comp mag and it would be legal to transfer. As far as being denied based on your criminal history, it's possible that your offense would have resulted in a ban but most of the "violent" misdemeanors only result in a 10 year ban which should have already passed. There are a handful like domestic violence that would be a lifetime ban. But the other commenter here is more knowledgeable on the nuances of that whole thing. You will just have to see what happens, hopefully it is just a delay and not a deny

You know I was prepared that an extended hold was a possibility but I thought it a really small one since it’s been so long, and I can imagine how ty a process is it for them to confirm details of a 17 year old case in a different state. I wish I would have come here before starting the process
I will read what that website has to say and familiarize myself with as much as I can so that if, hopefully, they approve or release to me I’ll have a better handle on the time frames in the future.
ld think it might help matters if I provide a copy of my expungement on record but idk if that stuff can only go through proper channels..
here’s hoping it resolves though!! Thanks again man for all of your help and for the website link

 

[Deleted member 16735]

You know I was prepared that an extended hold was a possibility but I thought it a really small one since it’s been so long, and I can imagine how ty a process is it for them to confirm details of a 17 year old case in a different state. I wish I would have come here before starting the process
I will read what that website has to say and familiarize myself with as much as I can so that if, hopefully, they approve or release to me I’ll have a better handle on the time frames in the future.
ld think it might help matters if I provide a copy of my expungement on record but idk if that stuff can only go through proper channels..
here’s hoping it resolves though!! Thanks again man for all of your help and for the website link

I don't think the doj will ever contact you they will either submit a rejection or just do nothing and hopefully the FFL will release it to you, the default is just the "30 days" so you just gotta wait I guess. There is some kind of process in case if you do get rejected but I don't know about any of that. Either way I wouldn't worry tooooo much but it could have been better to buy locally as if it does get rejected you will probably have to pay to reship and then try will probably charge a restock fee but it's too late to worry about that