Question New and trying to understand AR pistol laws

[ShootFirstFirster]

I understand, and agree he should build his pistol instead of a 13.7 inch Pin-weld carbine.

He asked what the point of a 13.7 PW was. I said not much.

The reality is that 11 piston or 12.5 gas is really the only good length for SBR. Let not sugar coat things. People build pistols because they want sbrs and dont want to or cant deal with the bull.

I am a rifle guy through and through. BUT if you want something that Slings and swings like an sbr/pistol 13 7 p&w with a light weight barrel comes close to a 11 piston 12.5 gas with suppressor.

For what it's worth I advised against all of it(ar pistol things). Get yourself an hk mr556a4 or adm uic mod 2 and be done with all of it.

 

[jhsd20]

The reality is that 11 piston or 12.5 gas is really the only good length for SBR. Let not sugar coat things. People build pistols because they want sbrs and dont want to or cant deal with the bull.

I am a rifle guy through and through. BUT if you want something that Slings and swings like an sbr/pistol 13 7 p&w with a light weight barrel comes close to a 11 piston 12.5 gas with suppressor.

For what it's worth I advised against all of it(ar pistol things). Get yourself an hk mr556a4 and be done with all of it.

Funny enough, despite saying what I did I also fully agree with you!

AR pistols are for looking cool, and there's nothing wrong with that. They are functionally more compromised than featureless guns (brace stock and maglock), and in too much of a legal quagmire to use for anything critical (like defense). You might as well just get an ultra-cool shorty short length at that rate.

I fully agree that a PW 13.7 is the closest you can get to a functional (both legally and tactically) SBR, but I also feel that a 16 is still better in every way that matters to it.

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

Funny enough, despite saying what I did I also fully agree with you!

AR pistols are for looking cool, and there's nothing wrong with that. They are functionally more compromised than featureless guns (brace stock and maglock), and in too much of a legal quagmire to use for anything critical (like defense). You might as well just get an ultra-cool shorty short length at that rate.

I fully agree that a PW 13.7 is the closest you can get to a functional (both legally and tactically) SBR, but I also feel that a 16 is still better in every way that matters to it.

Yes these days I only run 16 on rifle.

 

[AR15barrels]

Hello.

Firstly, I'm new, so if this is an inappropriate place to post this, please just let me know. I'm trying to understand how the AR pistol laws in California work. Some people say you can and some say it's crazy illegal. But from what I understood, if I were to buy a franklin armory CA7 or CA11, I can just swap the entire upper for a semi auto that's under 16"? I'm really just not sure how any of this works and am looking for some guidance.

PC30515 has the legal wording that you need to comply with to not create an illegal assault weapon:

(a) Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:
(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:
(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.
(B) A second handgrip.
(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.
(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.
(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

 

[AR15barrels]

So I was playing with the thought of a 13.7 P&W but with the fact that its P&W, if something goes wrong with the gun, wouldn't you have to replace the whole upper??

I remove perm attached muzzle devices all the time and then install different ones when people change their mind and want to re-configure the upper.

 

[cali_jazz]

AR pistols are for looking cool, and there's nothing wrong with that. They are functionally more compromised than featureless guns (brace stock and maglock), and in too much of a legal quagmire to use for anything critical (like defense). You might as well just get an ultra-cool shorty short length at that rate.

I disagree, it has zero to do with looking cool at least for me. I have a bad shoulder. I have AR9 Pistols and 5.56 ARP's. They are much lighter and easier to handle while my 16"ers can be a challenge.

What exactly is a "shorty short length"?

 

[cali_jazz]

You could just not comply and run it the way it was intended like most of us.

This is REALLY BAD advise.

Getting caught with an "Assault Rifle" in California will really F- up your day, unless you're into State subsidized gated communities. You can be charged with multiple crimes under the statutes including "Manufacturing". It appears with the passage of AB1263 and SB704 the state is becoming more aggressive by adding an additional Penal Code you can be charged under. If you want an ARP make sure it's as legal as possible. As @2muchsoysauce4allthisrice stated, a registered AR Pistol lower build is the safest. SSE, Bolt-action semi-auto conversions are a bit more risky as the DOJ previously stated this "MAY" be considered manufacturing an unsafe handgun although nobody has been charged in California to date.
In 2026 SSE's may have become more of an issue with the new Penal Code Section and reference to "aiding and abetting". IIRC 2A Zone made some remarks on Reddit about conferring with their attorneys and a new process to build SSE's to ensure they don't violate PC 29186. Lurch Manufacturing makes a SS Sled you can use while transporting your semi-auto Franklin CA7 to and from the range.

New Penal Code Section 29186

AB 1263 adds Section 29186 to the California Penal Code, which defines and criminalizes the "unlawful manufacture of firearms". Under this new code, manufacturing is considered unlawful if it involves:

• Creating "Unsafe Handguns": Manufacturing a handgun that is not on the DOJ’s roster of certified safe handguns, in violation of Penal Code Section 32000.
• Converting to Assault Weapons: Manufacturing any firearm that meets the definition of an "assault weapon" under Section 30600.
• Aiding or Facilitating: It is now a misdemeanor to knowingly aid, abet, or facilitate the unlawful manufacture of a firearm. This expands liability to individuals or businesses providing parts or instructions intended for illegal conversions.

 

[W.H.O.]

You can do this one of two ways.

Purchase an exempt semi-auto pistol lower from somebody via PPT, build it out and then run mag locked(kingpin, etc) with 10 round magazines legally. You can have an adjustable brace, pistol grip, forward handstop & whichever muzzle device you want as you cannot make an ar-pistol featureless.

The other option is to go thru a shop that has an ffl07 and can "make" a single shot exempt bolt action repeater pistol. This is essentially what amounts to an ar-pistol as described above, but it does not have a gas port, gas block or gas tube. The laws regarding changing this upper receiver to another upper receiver is a grey area that people choose to interpret how they see fit. This is not to say that interpretation is law....most people will go this route, build/buy a separate upper and keep the other upper as proof that they have not in fact modified the gun into an unsafe handgun since the upper receiver that was compliant is still intact and present. You need to understand how plausible deniability plays into the picture with this method, but to each their own.

 

[fiatlux]

Help me understand how this all works on a practical level when you dros either as a semi-auto pistol lower or a sse. Are there any markings or distinctions to show if someone asks? Can LEO even ask for and verify this information?

 

[AR15barrels]

Help me understand how this all works on a practical level when you dros either as a semi-auto pistol lower or a sse. Are there any markings or distinctions to show if someone asks? Can LEO even ask for and verify this information?

DROSing as a complete semi-auto is the FAR superior way to go.
That clears you of any possible "manufacturing an unsafe handgun" charges in the future if you were to DROS as SSE and then convert it to semi-auto.

 

[fiatlux]

DROSing as a complete semi-auto is the FAR superior way to go.
That clears you of any possible "manufacturing an unsafe handgun" charges in the future if you were to DROS as SSE and then convert it to semi-auto.

That makes sense. Is there any way for a civilian to get a semi-auto ar pistol outside of PPT? Or only it's for exempt individuals like LEO

Practically, let's say I'm on the range and I get harassed by an LEO with my legal semi-auto pistol, would they run the serial # in some kind of database or does those kind of situations don't really happen?

 

[Khanquest]

You can do this one of two ways.

Purchase an exempt semi-auto pistol lower from somebody via PPT, build it out and then run mag locked(kingpin, etc) with 10 round magazines legally. You can have an adjustable brace, pistol grip, forward handstop & whichever muzzle device you want as you cannot make an ar-pistol featureless.

The other option is to go thru a shop that has an ffl07 and can "make" a single shot exempt bolt action repeater pistol. This is essentially what amounts to an ar-pistol as described above, but it does not have a gas port, gas block or gas tube. The laws regarding changing this upper receiver to another upper receiver is a grey area that people choose to interpret how they see fit. This is not to say that interpretation is law....most people will go this route, build/buy a separate upper and keep the other upper as proof that they have not in fact modified the gun into an unsafe handgun since the upper receiver that was compliant is still intact and present. You need to understand how plausible deniability plays into the picture with this method, but to each their own.

Ok so I'm looking to go down the DROSing a semi auto pistol STRIPPED LOWER. Now once I have that in my name ( which honestly like the guy above I have no idea how to prove is legal) I can build without being "manufacturing unsafe handgun"? And people keep specifying "fixed mag". Does that mean compmag (can't drop mag AT ALL) specifically or maglock + kingpin?

 

[Jimi Jah]

I love AR Pistols and SBR's... I have had them before and wish I still could.

But several years ago after they really tightened down the rules, I decided to give it up altogether.

Now I'm quite happy with my 14.5's.

The rewards of a rifle that's 3 inches shorter isn't really worth the stress, anxiety and functional limitations.

Exactly what I did. My 7" pistol lower is now a rifle upper. To me it was a loud, obnoxious range toy only good for clearing adjacent lanes.

The 14.5" pinned Daniel Defense barrel AR is accurate and fully legal. Mine is pinned with a linear compensator for less noise. It sits at the ready with a 30 round mag loaded with Winchester 45 grain frangable ammo to avoid outside wall penetration.

The BCG has an adjustable gas key fitted, no issues with fitting an adjustable gas block on the barrel.

 

[MOPAR-man]

No. The mag is detachable. You would first have to comp mag then maybe your changes.

In case you missed it the Franklin armory pistols are bolt action repeaters.

A semi auto center fire pistol in California cannot have a removable magazine outside of the pistol grip(outside olympic exemption), a threaded barrel, or a flash hider.
Once you comp mag the lower your upper is essentially free game but I would steer clear of a threaded barrel, FH, suppressor mount.

Personally I think you are btter off with a 13.7 comp mag rifle.

So did the laws change again and I missed it or something... Since when do you have to have a p&w muzzle brake on an AR/ak pistol.. or You can't even have threads for that matter??

 

[ShootFirstFirster]

So did the laws change again and I missed it or something... Since when do you have to have a p&w muzzle brake on an AR/ak pistol.. or You can't even have threads for that matter??

No just the safest way possible explanation via the internet. I edited my original post but he quoted prior.

 

[W.H.O.]

Ok so I'm looking to go down the DROSing a semi auto pistol STRIPPED LOWER. Now once I have that in my name ( which honestly like the guy above I have no idea how to prove is legal) I can build without being "manufacturing unsafe handgun"? And people keep specifying "fixed mag". Does that mean compmag (can't drop mag AT ALL) specifically or maglock + kingpin?

getting the Semi-auto lower receiver is legal via Private party transfer. People who are moving into the state or allowed to bring their non rostered handguns (including AR pistols and semi-auto pistol registered lower receivers) with them when they move. Additionally, family members of direct lineage (father, son, grandfather/mother, daughter,grandmother in any combination of those EXCLUDING siblings) are allowed to gift handguns non on the safe handgun roster to their respective relatives within the state from out of state. There is no current law that prevents these from being transfered via FFL from the person who brought it in or legally received it to another person within the state once they have it in the state legally.
Additionally, law enforcement officers in many cases (not all, but most) are exempt from The handgun safety roster to varying degrees. In the case that they have legally acquired a handgun that is not on the roster, they are not legally restricted from selling or transferring these to somebody else.

This is often why you will see the quote "rules for the, but not for me" referenced in relation to gun laws in this state.

**For legal reasons, IANAL and I would encourage you to do your own research on the topic and come to your own conclusions, or speak with a legal expert on the matter.**

 

[W.H.O.]

getting the Semi-auto lower receiver is legal via Private party transfer. People who are moving into the state or allowed to bring their non rostered handguns (including AR pistols and semi-auto pistol registered lower receivers) with them when they move. Additionally, family members of direct lineage (father, son, grandfather/mother, daughter,grandmother in any combination of those EXCLUDING siblings) are allowed to gift handguns non on the safe handgun roster to their respective relatives within the state from out of state. There is no current law that prevents these from being transfered via FFL from the person who brought it in or legally received it to another person within the state once they have it in the state legally.
Additionally, law enforcement officers in many cases (not all, but most) are exempt from The handgun safety roster to varying degrees. In the case that they have legally acquired a handgun that is not on the roster, they are not legally restricted from selling or transferring these to somebody else.

This is often why you will see the quote "rules for the, but not for me" referenced in relation to gun laws in this state.

**For legal reasons, IANAL and I would encourage you to do your own research on the topic and come to your own conclusions, or speak with a legal expert on the matter.**

Oh, and yes AR pistols must be maglocked in the state of California since they Do not meet the requirements needed to satisfy The featureless requirement( barrel is less than 16 inches). If they are not maglocked, they are considered an assault weapon. How you choose to do this It's up to you, as technically speaking there is no defined literature from The DOJ regarding specific methods for having a fixed magazine in regard to specific products. Personally, I have installed hogue Freedom fighter detent for mine and use a kingpin.

 

[AR15barrels]

That makes sense. Is there any way for a civilian to get a semi-auto ar pistol outside of PPT? Or only it's for exempt individuals like LEO

Practically, let's say I'm on the range and I get harassed by an LEO with my legal semi-auto pistol, would they run the serial # in some kind of database or does those kind of situations don't really happen?

Your son/father/daughter/mother who resides outside of California can send one to your local FFL for intra-family transfer
or you could be willed one by a friend or family member who died and specifically named you in their will to receive the firearm.
These are "act of law" transfers that are roster exempt.

Otherwise PPT is it.'

Most departments can check the ownership status of a firearm but this is for checking to see if the gun is stolen or not.
If the gun comes back as being registered to you or not listed as stolen and there's nothing else obviously illegal going on, such a check is usually not going anywhere.
I don't believe that many departments could see full AFS details on an in-car terminal or a phone app.

 

[AR15barrels]

Ok so I'm looking to go down the DROSing a semi auto pistol STRIPPED LOWER. Now once I have that in my name ( which honestly like the guy above I have no idea how to prove is legal) I can build without being "manufacturing unsafe handgun"? And people keep specifying "fixed mag". Does that mean compmag (can't drop mag AT ALL) specifically or maglock + kingpin?

Some shops won't transfer a stripped lower as semi-auto because a stripped lower is NOT actually semi-auto without the rest of the parts to make it work as a semi-auto.
These shops will follow the strict reading of the DES system that you transfer "stripped" receivers as "stripped receivers" and not as assembled firearms.
Having the gun completely assembled in a legal semi-auto configuration makes it easier to find an FFL to do the transfer as well.

Maglock and kingpin seems to be meeting the requirements of a fixed magazine,