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New Shooters: Start with red dot or irons?

Should new shooters start with irons or optics?

  • Optic ([color] dot)

    Votes: 44 41.5%

  • Irons

    Votes: 62 58.5%
  • Total voters
    106
weaverftw said:
I don’t think I would ever take a gun to a gunsmith to mount or zero a red dot, or I would turn in my man card.
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💯%. There are some firearms related tasks that I think it is absolutely necessary to be able to do for yourself. Adjusting sights, be they optics or irons, is one of them.
 
Makoman said:
💯%. There are some firearms related tasks that I think it is absolutely necessary to be able to do for yourself. Adjusting sights, be they optics or irons, is one of them.
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The only time I've used a gunsmith for anything is when I didn't have those specific tools. How could you ever trust a gunsmith does something right if you don't know how to do it?
 
rodralig said:
Going back to red dots and irons - how many people here are actually proficient with BOTH to the point where they can meaningfully speak to the differences?
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Bought my first pistol and started training, late Feb of 2025. Before that maybe ~500rds (certainly less than 1000) lifetime.

IDPA (5x5) Classification
- SSP: Sharp Shooter (0.4s over expert from concealed)
- CO: Expert (from OWB)

USPSA (9 matches total)
- Production: C class (just on the edge of B)
- CO: not classified - in practice runs average between 75 and 80%

Static 25yd training
- Irons: 4-5" groups depending on fiber or tritium
- Dot: ~3-4" groups from

Bill Drill
- Cold shot average from concealed (the only one that counts)
  • Irons: 2.9s
  • Dot: 2.4s
 
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weaverftw said:
I recommend Twist of the Wrist to everyone I know who decides they want to ride a motorcycle
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The safety course is also a good one to take, and it used to give you a discount on insurance rates. Dont know if it still does 🤠
 
State of the tech: optics
Each gun: irons for a while, then optics.

Be sure to zero those dots!

It's worth finding out if one prefers red or green optics. For me it's green all the way. Try this out at a local gun shop that will let you see both before buying. Green usually costs a bit more.

For carry, an optic may not be needed. Encounters will usually be quite close-range.
 
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weaverftw said:
Countersteering is the #1 thing I’ll tell people about if they don’t want to read the whole thing. It’s not intuitive but really revolutionizes your understanding about how the bike reacts to your inputs
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Yes, and Code debunks "body steering" without countersteering pretty effectively.
 
Call me an old fud, but I think irons should be first priority. Imo if you start with red dot on pistols, one may develop training scars when going to train irons after. I have all my red dot pistols co-witnessed with irons (suppressor height sights), but most of my handguns are IS only.
 
GrumpyCitizen said:
Call me an old fud, but I think irons should be first priority. Imo if you start with red dot on pistols, one may develop training scars when going to train irons after. I have all my red dot pistols co-witnessed with irons (suppressor height sights), but most of my handguns are IS only.
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Agree, but in the flip side you also develop training scars with irons. One of them is sight focus vs target focus. Training on irons ingrains front sight focus, which then translates to swapping focus between target and irons to verify alignment. Whereas starting with dots gets you started on target focus from the start. There are pros and cons to each
 
New shooters - red dot on a .22 rifle with reactive targets.

Handgun - iron sights with .22 upper on Glock 17.

Rifle - scope with the rifle on the bench and splatter targets.
 
@NATEWA
That's funny you mention a 22 slide + barrel on a G17; years ago I attended a CCW handgun training course in which a 70+ year old grandmother was given a Glock 17 for her first time in CCW handgun training despite NEVER having fired a gun in her entire life up until that point in 2017. She practiced firing the G17 vs. a Beretta 92 and a 1911 (There were no .22 LR handguns available in that course with that instructor at that time, it was only 9mm and 45 acp handguns). The Grandmother shot the best with the G17 7/10 hits on target, vs. 5/10 with a 1911, and 3/10 hits with a Beretta 92FS. Make of that what you will lol.
 
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weaverftw said:
Agree, but in the flip side you also develop training scars with irons. One of them is sight focus vs target focus. Training on irons ingrains front sight focus, which then translates to swapping focus between target and irons to verify alignment. Whereas starting with dots gets you started on target focus from the start. There are pros and cons to each
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Not quite! While starting off, it's good to be primarily front post focused, if you train correctly there's actually additional benefit to training with irons with regard to vision.

You [should] learn to adjust your vision based on various parameters, particularly, distance and type of sight picture working - confirmation, flash... Also, you should always start target focused and bring your sights into the picture - just as with a dot.

As you improve you'll start to understand what an acceptable sight picture looks for those parameters seeing enough of the target and sights to get the hits you want.

That process can help with engaging targets at various distances - arrays like accelerators, in particular - where you do have to quickly adjust focus as you transition.

For myself, I do find there's a bit of an adjustment if I start my session with irons and then switch to a dot (or vice-versa) but I'm usually dialed in within 5-10rds.
 
Try both and do what works for you. Same with both eyes vs one eye closed.
 
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