ohh sig.....

[-D.M.-]

When some guntubers went out to Q (Kevin Brittingham's company) to look at the Boombox and it's development, they spoke to some of the engineers there, most of the former Sig engineers. Sig knew during development that the 320 had major problems. They pushed it out anyway and then aggressively pursued the government service pistol contract. Which we all know they won under questionable circumstances.

Lately they've taken the tactic of attacking the messengers rather than issuing a recall because there's so many 320's in circulation it would be devastating financially to recall them all and re-engineer the entire line. Realistically they need to end the line and stop selling those damn things, they're dangerous and someone is going to die. It's dragging down their brand, and taking their reputation in the 2A community with it.

But hey! Got that fat gov contract, so I guess it was all worth it in the end, right?

 

[Dohboy]

When some guntubers went out to Q (Kevin Brittingham's company) to look at the Boombox and it's development, they spoke to some of the engineers there, most of the former Sig engineers. Sig knew during development that the 320 had major problems. They pushed it out anyway and then aggressively pursued the government service pistol contract. Which we all know they won under questionable

Is this fact? Or just supposition/water cooler talk? I know there have been multiple lawsuits against Sig, so maybe this is from a deposition or something? Guntubers aren't exactly a reliable source.

 

[DuckDawg22]

This is a test I'll be doing with my Legion later

 

[Dohboy]

At first I thought - who is this knucklehead in the video wearing a blazer while fiddling with his P320s - but have to say, I'm going to doing the same test too.

Here is from an article on the P320 discharging. Call it anti 2a literature or whatever, but it's interesting. Just trying to find a technical explanation for how this is happening, in light of the safeties in the gun.

One of America's Favorite Handguns Is Allegedly Firing On Its Owners

SIG Sauer’s P320 pistol has wounded more than 80 people who say they didn’t pull the trigger — and no U.S. agency has the power to intervene.

www.thetrace.org

In the report, commissioned by a legal team bringing a case against SIG Sauer in Philadelphia, Tertin opined that the P320’s primary internal safety was too easily disabled. He found that pulling the trigger 0.075 inches — about the width of a nickel — would disengage it, leaving the pistol vulnerable to accidental discharge.

“Given the very minimal trigger movement… required to disengage the internal safeties, a foreign object or pressure against the holster can leave the gun unacceptably vulnerable to a discharge without an intentional trigger pull,” Tertin wrote in his report.

SIG Sauer noted that in deposition testimony, Tertin has said the P320 cannot fire without its trigger being fully depressed. But Tertin has wavered on this point across multiple depositions and has maintained in his expert reports that the gun is vulnerable to firing when the trigger is only partially pulled, as it might be in a warped holster or when a finger or object inadvertently brushes the trigger from its side.

 

[-D.M.-]

Is this fact? Or just supposition/water cooler talk? I know there have been multiple lawsuits against Sig, so maybe this is from a deposition or something? Guntubers aren't exactly a reliable source.

Brittingham wouldn't say anything on camera, so I'm guessing there's probably some NDA's attached to his and his (former Sig) engineers exit from Sig. But he was not unclear (if somewhat cagey) that the 320 had problems from early in development and Sig knew.

 

[EsotericEpsilon]

So in doing some more digging around, turns out if you start messing with aftermarket triggers with reach reduction, over/pre travel, reduced power sear springs, forward set trigger bar, and/or reduced power trigger return springs, you can cause a P320 trigger to engage and lift the safety lifter, thus disabling the striker safety lifter. With the trigger and spring combinations combined with a disengaged strike safety lifter, it can discharge on its own.
Some triggers won't even reset properly, meaning the trigger is essentially "pulled" past the point of discharging. So if you chamber a round, it won't fire because the trigger is still "pulled," unless a force causes the trigger to move forward, like a slight jolt or bump. At this point, the gun will discharge.

In summary, attempting to modify trigger travel and trigger weight is akin to Icarus attempting flight: at what point are you too close to the sun?

 

[MosinKalash]

This guy's content on YT is great, from a technical perspective of the P320. It makes me wonder how the hell these NDs happen, but I'm also going down the rabbit hole and am seeing those videos of holstered guns randomly going off when they are taking some "normal" action (there was one where a LEO was checking an in-custody person or something like that and he bent forward and the gun went off in holster).

Is it possible that while bending over he somehow flexed the frame and the fcu which caused something in the mechanism to slip? I wonder if this could be replicated with a more rigid frame, like the Icarus ones.

 

[Jon F]

Couldn’t resist.

View this content on Instagram

View this content on Instagram

 

[angryasian]

When some guntubers went out to Q (Kevin Brittingham's company) to look at the Boombox and it's development, they spoke to some of the engineers there, most of the former Sig engineers. Sig knew during development that the 320 had major problems. They pushed it out anyway and then aggressively pursued the government service pistol contract. Which we all know they won under questionable circumstances.

Lately they've taken the tactic of attacking the messengers rather than issuing a recall because there's so many 320's in circulation it would be devastating financially to recall them all and re-engineer the entire line. Realistically they need to end the line and stop selling those damn things, they're dangerous and someone is going to die. It's dragging down their brand, and taking their reputation in the 2A community with it.

But hey! Got that fat gov contract, so I guess it was all worth it in the end, right?

I think people who keep pushing this idea that there is a problem still are dragging down the brand. What keeps anyone from suggesting any firearm is safe or unsafe based on the vague evidence in these videos.

 

[sjb323]

I think people who keep pushing this idea that there is a problem still are dragging down the brand. What keeps anyone from suggesting any firearm is safe or unsafe based on the vague evidence in these videos.

Or maybe... guns going off in the holster are the reason for the brand getting dragged down. If you really want to be brave, throw that 320 in a Serpa holster. Now there's a good time!

 

[angryasian]

Or maybe... guns going off in the holster are the reason for the brand getting dragged down. If you really want to be brave, throw that 320 in a Serpa holster. Now there's a good time!

So you’ve done that yourself. Do you own a p320?

 

[sjb323]

I sold my P320 before all the reports of blowing up and going off in the holsters. I also do not own a Serpa. Because of this, there is a 100% chance that I will not shoot myself due to the possibility of either of these pieces of potentially faulty equipment. I don't think it's necessary for me to shoot myself in order to come to the conclusion that there are safer pieces of gear out there.

I will add this. I pretty much shoot a steel frame PDP these days. It's a great gun, fun to shoot, and very reliable. That said, if there were a bunch of reports of PDPs doing Sig stuff -- and with videos to back it up -- I wouldn't hesitate to dump that gun for something else. I'm not paid by Walther, and I have no emotional attachment to the tools I use. This doesn't seem to be something that people need to get offended about.

 

[-D.M.-]

I think people who keep pushing this idea that there is a problem still are dragging down the brand. What keeps anyone from suggesting any firearm is safe or unsafe based on the vague evidence in these videos.

IMO, that's a very bad take. If I read what you wrote correctly, you're saying to not call out a company for a (let's even say "potentially" for the sake of argument) shoddy/dangerous product because it "drags down the brand"?!

Nah, man. It's more than "an idea" there's a problem, there's plenty of evidence, anecdotal and otherwise that there is a problem with the 320. Sig and the Sig fanboys pretending there isn't? That's a bigger problem. No one should ever be immune to criticism, no one should be expected to "shut up and toe the line", especially when it comes to safety.

The bigger issue is, with Sig doing what they're doing, are they dragging down the entire industry by being deliberately dishonest or obtuse when it comes to this issue. THAT is what should be the issue of paramount importance.

 

[21SF 2.0]

Doesn’t matter if it was stock, doesn’t matter if it was manual safety. Plenty of reports of the m18/17 doing the same. Do some research it’s a flawed design. Period

 

[sal12]

Honestly, I thought all of the Sig P320 issues could be attributed to the good ol' Glock leg phenomenon back in the day. And, part of me still feels like that's true. When I look at all of the videos of P320s going off, I can't help but think that there's still no conclusive evidence that 100% proves that the P320 is a flawed design.

...But with that said, the fact that there are so many incidents raises enough doubt in my mind that the possibility *does* exist that the P320 is a flawed design. And, even if it's not 100% in my mind, that's still far too much doubt for me to even consider ever using my P320 for carry or duty.

 

[21SF 2.0]

Honestly, I thought all of the Sig P320 issues could be attributed to the good ol' Glock leg phenomenon back in the day. And, part of me still feels like that's true. When I look at all of the videos of P320s going off, I can't help but think that there's still no conclusive evidence that 100% proves that the P320 is a flawed design.

...But with that said, the fact that there are so many incidents raises enough doubt in my mind that the possibility *does* exist that the P320 is a flawed design. And, even if it's not 100% in my mind, that's still far too much doubt for me to even consider ever using my P320 for carry or duty.

All you have to do is watch a few videos on the function of the p320, if you get familiar enough with the mechanics of the p320 the flaws are obvious.

 

[TayR_1911]

Anyone know if most of these instances were with the non manual safety versions ? I haven’t seen anything stating it’s an issue with the manual safety versions or not

 

[21SF 2.0]

Anyone know if most of these instances were with the non manual safety versions ? I haven’t seen anything stating it’s an issue with the manual safety versions or not

Both, manual safety is useless.
Can’t wait to look back and laugh at the shills and fanbois.

 

[socalgunowner909]

I love my SIGS..... I wouldnt cc my 320 but i enjoy taking it to the range. I have a hk usp compact for my cc.

 

[Deadcoyote]

i mean i still own some sigs....and carry one of them. just not the 320. also the 226 is a classic

I owned a sp2022 in 9mm for a long time . Loved that pistol. It’s a poor man’s 229. I saw a 229 the other day for sale at sportsman’s warehouse and I was swooning until I saw the price tag. I’m just too darn cheap.

But hey, 320’s are for sale for real cheap all over the place!