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P320’s allowed (on R/P only) again at Richmond Rod

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What you just stated shows that the design itself is flawed because it doesn't have a safety mechanism to prevent it like the majority of firearms do. The novelty of the design within the FCU without the safety leads to unintended consequences. There's a reason the P320 with the manual safety does not have this issue. How do you reconcile that?
Nope, that’s just my opinion. I’m not a gunsmith nor an expert on its engineering. 4 million have been sold and approximately 100 or so people don’t know how to keep their finger off the trigge.

Do you know for a fact the so called UD’s involved pistols without the safety? I’ll wait again! The safety is manual, so unless you use it, it’s worthless. I like the idea of the tabbed trigger, but that’s just me.

I believe the reason why the manual safety came out is because the military contract specifically required the pistol to have a manual safety.
 
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Nope, that’s just my opinion. I’m not a gunsmith nor an expert on its engineering. 4 million have been sold and approximately 100 or so people don’t know how to keep their finger off the trigge.

Do you know for a fact the so called UD’s involved pistols without the safety? I’ll wait again! The safety is manual, so unless you use it, it’s worthless. I like the idea of the tabbed trigger, but that’s just me.

No evidence of a UD, more evidence of ND.

YouTube Sig P320 uncommented discharge where multiple vids show someone pressing on the top front of the slide and you hear the sear disengage. Don't tell me this is all to discredit you beloved P320. Just like people who "Vote Blue No Matter Who" you're drinking the same KoolAide except yours is P320 flavored
I’ve seen that video, the one where
the screw was inserted. Make it happen without the screw, and without having the trigger being manipulated and now you have evidence the gun can fire on its own. Other than that, is BS

I didn’t make it politital, I said sound just like a liberal by blaming the gun, not the user. There has been no proof the gun goes off on its own. Please show me the gun going off on it’s own without the trigger being being manipulated. The youtube videos of the gun going off in the holster is not proof the trigger wasn’t manipulated. Independent test could not confirm the gun went off without the trigger being manipulated.

Again, I’ll wait!
 
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I’ve seen that video, the one where
the screw was inserted. Make it happen without the screw, and without having the trigger being manipulated and now you have evidence the gun can fire on its own. Other than that, is BS

I didn’t make it politital, I said sound just like a liberal by blaming the gun, not the user. There has been no proof the gun goes off on its own. Please show me the gun going off on it’s own without the trigger being being manipulated. The youtube videos of the gun going off in the holster is not proof the trigger wasn’t manipulated. Independent test could not confirm the gun went off without the trigger being manipulated.

Again, I’ll wait!
You sound like a broken record and seem to miss the point on purpose. No one needs to convince you, but Sig would love to have you on their jury. Multiple juries already awarded plaintiffs so it has in fact been proven and adjudicated. The fact that Gray Guns has a product to solve a problem that doesn't exist should tell you something. Especially if its "adding" a safety feature vs extending an existing feature, but just to clear the issue. The issue is that the trigger wasn't manipulated, the issue is that Sig removed a safety feature that prevents accidental discharge where it normally would prevent a discharge from happening. If you don't see that as the issue, you won't ever see the problem.

If you don't believe it, that's fine. The post is about the firearm being added back to a range in California with some limits.
 
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You sound like a broken record and seem to miss the point on purpose. No one needs to convince you, but Sig would love to have you on their jury. Multiple juries already awarded plaintiffs so it has in fact been proven and adjudicated. The fact that Gray Guns has a product to solve a problem that doesn't exist should tell you something. Especially if its "adding" a safety feature vs extending an existing feature, but just to clear the issue. The issue is that the trigger wasn't manipulated, the issue is that Sig removed a safety feature that prevents accidental discharge where it normally would prevent a discharge from happening. If you don't see that as the issue, you won't ever see the problem.

If you don't believe it, that's fine. The post is about the firearm being added back to a range in California with some limits.
Talk about a broken record. Prove the Sig goes off on its own with out the trigger being pulled. You can’t. I have no problem being proven wrong. Yet no one has and solid proof

I only own 2 P320’s and various glocks and HK’s. So i’m not vested in the pistol. One of the P320’s I couldn’t pass up because of all the negative press. So thanks for saving me money.

I’m just not stupid enough to make a judgement on youtube videos.
 
You sound like a broken record and seem to miss the point on purpose. No one needs to convince you, but Sig would love to have you on their jury. Multiple juries already awarded plaintiffs so it has in fact been proven and adjudicated. The fact that Gray Guns has a product to solve a problem that doesn't exist should tell you something. Especially if its "adding" a safety feature vs extending an existing feature, but just to clear the issue. The issue is that the trigger wasn't manipulated, the issue is that Sig removed a safety feature that prevents accidental discharge where it normally would prevent a discharge from happening. If you don't see that as the issue, you won't ever see the problem.

If you don't believe it, that's fine. The post is about the firearm being added back to a range in California with some limits.
By the way, Agency Arms had a tabbed trigger years before Gray Guns, yet the youtubers said it was crap. Hmmmm!
 
By the way, Agency Arms had a tabbed trigger years before Gray Guns, yet the youtubers said it was crap. Hmmmm!
Right. Gray guns came out with it AFTER the debacle, not before.
I’m just not stupid enough to make a judgement on youtube videos.
There’s also court cases, active lawsuits, and decisions already bro
 
Right. Gray guns came out with it AFTER the debacle, not before.

There’s also court cases, active lawsuits, and decisions already bro
Really, of course they did. They're in the business to make money. Its amazing the lack of common sense.

Ive seen the court cases, did they prove the gun went off on its own?? I'm going to say no. Using your term, you sound like a broken record. Post a link where it has been prove the P320 can discharge without a trigger pull. I've been waiting, and no one can provide that information. With all the youtube experts, there has to be at least one?

Please post your findings from your expertise! Im guessing I will be waiting for a while.
 
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Really, of course they did. They're in the business to make money. Its amazing the lack of common sense.

Ive seen the court cases, did they prove the gun went off on its own?? I'm going to say no. Using your term, you sound like a broken record. Post a link where it has been prove the P320 can discharge without a trigger pull. I've been waiting, and no one can provide that information. With all the youtube experts, there has to be at least one?

Please post your findings from your expertise! Im guessing I will be waiting for a while.
It was proven in court… it’s not just YouTube, it was in the courtroom too.

No one can show you if you close your eyes to everything. That’s fine. It’s also amazing you don’t see coming out with the safety tab as a remedy to the problem that’s in the actual court cases. Please read more then you’ll see it but if you don’t believe the court then keep using your p320.

Judge Judy No GIF by Agent M Loves Gifs
 
It was proven in court… it’s not just YouTube, it was in the courtroom too.

No one can show you if you close your eyes to everything. That’s fine. It’s also amazing you don’t see coming out with the safety tab as a remedy to the problem that’s in the actual court cases. Please read more then you’ll see it but if you don’t believe the court then keep a
Most were reversed on appeal. These were civil cases if I recall. They never proved the gun went off without the trigger being pulled.

If they did prove it discharged on its own, there would be 100 new lawsuits. Yet there are more cases that have been dismissed than won.

I remember a guy who was accused of rape in a criminal case and it was dismissed. Sued in a civil case which has less proof of guilt, and lost. Also lost on appeal. That guy is now our President. Keep trying, you’re full of 💩
 
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Most were reversed on appeal. These were civil cases if I recall. They never proved the gun went off without the trigger being pulled.

If they did prove it discharged on its own, there would be 100 new lawsuits. Yet there are more cases that have been dismissed than won.

I remember a guy who was accused of rape in a criminal case and it was dismissed. Sued in a civil case which has less proof of guilt, and lost. Also lost on appeal. That guy is now our President. Keep trying, you’re full of 💩
Obviously you’re losing since you’re devolving because there are 100+ lawsuits. The most recent lawsuits have held since there’s new evidence.

I think you’re proving why nothing will update your belief. Theres a lot of evidence that you’ve made up your mind so much so you’re resulting towards being childish.
 
With no evidence of the actual gun discharging without the trigger being pulled, your arguments are similar to liberals. Blame the gun, not the user.

With your logic, gun violence is true. Guns are the root cause, not the person pulling the trigger.
I’m going to go out on a limb here and says if there were no guns then we would have no gun violence 🤣
 
… yeah by that logic then it’s an old wives tale for the P320 as well. Can you show me any incident or P320 where it’s proven the handgun fired without the trigger pulled? Actually verified, investigated and proven?

Glocks were going off so much they got the infamous term “Glock leg” and many lawsuits. You may be new to firearms but this isn’t anything new.

You must be using some ultra trash AI because if you ask ChatGPT about Glock leg and lawsuits you’ll find so much from the last 40 years
Links to the Glock Leg lawsuits
Here’s a large list of Glock-related lawsuits/cases/issues.


1. Wasylow v. Glock, Inc. — Massachusetts federal court, 1996.
A plaintiff brought claims against Glock involving alleged defective/negligent design, including lack of a manual safety and magazine disconnect. Glock won summary judgment on the defective/inherently dangerous design claims. This is an early example of courts treating the Glock’s design as not automatically defective merely because it lacked traditional manual-safety features.


2. Rodriguez v. Glock, Inc. — Northern District of Illinois, 1998.
A third party was injured when a Glock discharged during a fight over control of the weapon. The court held liability could not reasonably be placed on Glock under those circumstances. This is another example where the gun’s discharge occurred during human struggle/contact, not a clean “gun fired itself” fact pattern.


3. D.C. Metropolitan Police Glock accidental-discharge litigation — late 1980s through 1990s.
The Washington Post reported that, in the decade after D.C. police adopted the Glock 9mm, there were more than 120 accidental discharges, including at least one unintended citizen death, at least nine unintended citizen woundings, and nineteen officers accidentally shooting themselves or other officers. The Post also reported that at least eight victims or surviving relatives sued the District over injuries from accidental discharges.


4. Firearms Litigation Clearinghouse monitoring roughly 60 pending Glock suits — early 1990s context.
A Washington Post/Pulitzer archive says that by the early 1990s, alleged Glock unintentional-discharge problems were “the talk of the gun world,” and that an advocacy clearinghouse was monitoring about 60 pending lawsuits against Glock around the country. That does not mean Glock lost those cases, but it shows the “Glock leg” controversy is old, not new.


5. Spence v. Glock — 5th Circuit, 2000.
This was a class-action-style economic-loss case by purchasers of certain Glock models manufactured between 1986 and 1997. Plaintiffs alleged design defects causing the guns to jam and/or discharge accidentally, along with failure to warn, fraud, negligence, warranty claims, and negligent misrepresentation. The key point: this was broad consumer/product litigation about alleged defects, not one proven clean “Glock fired with no trigger input” incident.


6. Chavez v. Glock, Inc. — California Court of Appeal, 2012.
Former LAPD officer Enrique Chavez was paralyzed after his 3-year-old son found his loaded Glock 21 under the seat of his truck and fired it. Chavez sued Glock, alleging the Glock 21 was defectively designed because it had a 5.5-pound trigger and lacked a safety mechanism to prevent accidental, unknowing, or inadvertent discharge. The Court of Appeal reinstated the case after the trial court had dismissed it.


7. Chavez trial coverage — 2016.
Courtroom View Network summarized Glock’s defense as arguing the pistol was not defective and that Chavez was responsible because he failed to properly secure the firearm. That framing matters: Glock cases often become fights over design/warnings versus user storage/handling responsibility.


8. Oglesbee v. Glock — 10th Circuit, 2024.
Oglesbee sued Glock alleging products liability, failure to warn, and negligence. This is another modern Glock product-liability case, though not necessarily a “Glock leg” case in the narrow internet sense.


9. Parents v. Glock / Glock 26 toddler shooting lawsuit — 2024.
Parents sued Glock over a Glock 26 after a child unintentionally shot another child. The lawsuit alleges the Glock was designed without safety features that could have prevented the shooting, including lack of manual safety or grip safety and a light trigger pull. This is a modern version of the same old argument: not “the gun fired by itself,” but “the design allows too-easy trigger activation by an untrained or unauthorized person.”


10. Johnson v. Glock — California class action, active by 2026.
This California class action alleges consumer-protection, unfair-business-practices, failure-to-disclose, and false-advertising claims. It is not a personal-injury “Glock leg” case; it appears tied to California consumer claims about Glock pistol design/marketing.


11. Holmes v. Glock — federal class-action complaint, 2026.
A 2026 complaint alleges Glock has faulty and dangerous gun designs. I would treat this as allegation-stage material unless/until there are rulings or findings, but it belongs on the list of modern Glock litigation.


12. Minnesota and New Jersey v. Glock — switch-conversion lawsuits, 2024.
Minnesota and New Jersey sued Glock over the allegation that Glock pistols are too easily converted into illegal machine guns using “Glock switches.” These suits are not about “Glock leg” or accidental discharge, but they are major current lawsuits against Glock. AP and Reuters both reported that the states allege Glock knew its pistols could be converted and failed to redesign them; the gun industry/NSSF side argues Glock is not responsible for illegal third-party switches.


13. Broader municipal/political lawsuits involving Glock or handgun makers.
There have also been public-nuisance and product-liability-style lawsuits against gun manufacturers generally, including Glock in some contexts. New Jersey’s litigation against handgun manufacturers, for example, included defective/negligent design theories against multiple manufacturers. These are more “gun industry liability” cases than classic Glock-leg cases.


Now the history.


Glock appears in the early 1980s as a new kind of duty pistol: polymer frame, striker-fired, no traditional thumb safety, and its “Safe Action” system. Glock itself says the pistol was born in the early 1980s for the Austrian military and that its polymer frame and Safe Action system changed the pistol market.


The controversy really develops when police agencies start moving from revolvers and traditional DA/SA pistols to striker-fired semiautos. A revolver or DA/SA first shot usually had a heavier/longer trigger pull. A Glock’s trigger was shorter and lighter than many officers were used to, and it had no external manual safety to “save” sloppy trigger discipline. Police Magazine describes the broader transition beginning in the mid-1980s, when American agencies moved en masse from revolvers to semiautomatic pistols.


That is the soil “Glock leg” grew out of. Officers and civilians carried a pistol with a consistent trigger pull and no thumb safety. If a finger, jacket toggle, drawstring, shirt tail, holster edge, retention strap, or foreign object entered the trigger guard during holstering, the gun could fire. The bullet often went into the shooter’s leg, hip, butt, foot, or nearby bystander. Hence “Glock leg.”


The D.C. police experience became one of the famous examples. The Washington Post reported in 1998 that D.C. police had more than 120 accidental Glock discharges in the decade after adoption, with citizens and officers injured or killed and lawsuits following. The Post’s framing was heavily about training and transition problems: sophisticated new semiautos placed into the hands of undertrained officers.
Ahhh yeah so no uncommanded discharges like I said. It was all related to lack of a safety, training like I stated in my other post. Great story though. Also if the "Glock Leg" fallacy was true and continuing beyond the 80/early 90s (where we now have internet) as your findings state you'd think PDs, mil, ranges, etc would have ban them just like the P320 right???
 
Nope, that’s just my opinion. I’m not a gunsmith nor an expert on its engineering. 4 million have been sold and approximately 100 or so people don’t know how to keep their finger off the trigge.

Do you know for a fact the so called UD’s involved pistols without the safety? I’ll wait again! The safety is manual, so unless you use it, it’s worthless. I like the idea of the tabbed trigger, but that’s just me.

I believe the reason why the manual safety came out is because the military contract specifically required the pistol to have a manual safety.
Ruh Rho Shaggy, no finger on the trigger when this P320 went off:
 
Most were reversed on appeal. These were civil cases if I recall. They never proved the gun went off without the trigger being pulled.

If they did prove it discharged on its own, there would be 100 new lawsuits. Yet there are more cases that have been dismissed than won.

I remember a guy who was accused of rape in a criminal case and it was dismissed. Sued in a civil case which has less proof of guilt, and lost. Also lost on appeal. That guy is now our President. Keep trying, you’re full of 💩
Most were settled out of court monetarily and the plaintiffs signed a non discloser's.
 
Can you explain this???
Looks like the serpa strikes again. Can you explain it? What was the result of the laboratory testing and investigation? As an investigator, I can't make any determination from an unsourced blurry video. Also why does it look like his index finger is on the trigger with his middle finger extended?
Links to the Glock Leg lawsuits

Ahhh yeah so no uncommanded discharges like I said. It was all related to lack of a safety, training like I stated in my other post. Great story though. Also if the "Glock Leg" fallacy was true and continuing beyond the 80/early 90s (where we now have internet) as your findings state you'd think PDs, mil, ranges, etc would have ban them just like the P320 right???
I get you are new to shooting man, yes NYPD banned the standard Glock and they came out with a new 12 lb trigger model lol. Not sure why the Glock history and Glock leg is upsetting you so much - it happened. Yeah I'm not aware of any lawsuit proving an "uncommanded discharged" for either manufacturer, if you have proof of that please show it.

What do you mean banned? The Sig P320 outsells Glock for MIL/LE use and is used by the military and a huge amount of LE agencies worldwide. Sig Sauer is also dominating the civilian market with the P320/P365 lineup in sales. Definitely keep your finger off the trigger and use a proper holster, like Ikeo said without a tabbed trigger or external safety, the margin for error is quite low. Currently the M17/M18 continue to do very well with my fellow servicemembers. I haven't heard of any uptick in ND's compared to what happened with the M9/Glock/M11/MK25 etc. Kinda seems like you want to derail the topic... your video was posted a long time ago and debunked. Start a new thread
 
Ruh Rho Shaggy, no finger on the trigger when this P320 went off:
Unless he only has 3 fingers and a thumb, looks like his index finger is inside the trigger guard while re-holstering, and we see it re-appear as he brings his hand away

This also reminds me how we haven't really seen any ND from a P320 used for EDC. Only police/comp style users with different types of holsters and mainly during re-holstering. hmmmm
 
Just not allowed from the holster which is where the majority of problems looks like it comes from.
Do you think it would make a difference if the aftermarket trigger shoe with a safety is installed? Agency arms sig p320 trigger shoe is an example?
 
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