Feedback Question P320 General Consensus on Issue?

[Petethebuilder]

I love my m18 and am considering buying an m17. I really like the platform and have no reservations about it. As long as I use and train with the safety, I don't expect any problems from an accidental trigger pull. I can understand how it might be easy to do with the p320.

In terms of discharging without a tigger pull, the best I can understand is that there is a design vulnerability that is only be a problem if the wrong takedown lever is installed. For example, an armorer might have a bunch of 45 and 9mm takedown levers and not see a difference. If he put the 45 one on a 9, then the gun is vulnerable to a particular problem. Suppose you assemble the gun by releasing the takedown lever without having engaged the slide lock. If you have the wrong takedown lever installed, a magazine can be inserted. The gun would then be usable and visibly OK, but sear engagement would be inadequate.

I only have my single, correct takedown lever. I cannot insert a magazine when it's engaged. Also, I cannot insert a magazine if I disengage the takedown lever without having the slide lock engaged.

The design vulnerability is that the 45 takedown level looks almost the same as a 9mm one and a 9mm gun can be assembled with it.

The FBI report was pretty clear on the history of the gun that had the UD. It had a dead trigger problem like a bunch of others shipped to the department. Some of those were fixed by Sig and some by the department's armorer. The Sig with the problem was worked on by the department's armorer. I've not seen any report that documented his discipline in maintaining parts.

If you like the M18 you will love the m17. I personally have the Xfive Legion, m17, M18, compact carry, Sub compact, and the p320 in .40 cal/.357 and never had any issues.

 

[RDPICS]

Interesting thread. No personal experience with p320 but used a friends p365 at the range and enjoyed it. With all the p320 UD talk lately, I did some research into the subject and saw some of the informative videos mentioned above, but also found sig’s voluntary upgrade program on their site. I found it odd considering sig’s formal statement screams CYA, as echoed by another comment in this thread.

P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program | SIG SAUER

The P320® Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost.

www.sigsauer.com

 

[presscheckpino]

I like that I can pick up a P320 for a great deal.

Second hand market or in store?

 

[loganhunter0815]

I own three p320, all axg versions. None have gone off on their own, in holster or any other way. I havent heard any of the steel frame (axg) going off. Seems like its all the polymer models.

 

[NationMostWanted]

Interesting thread. No personal experience with p320 but used a friends p365 at the range and enjoyed it. With all the p320 UD talk lately, I did some research into the subject and saw some of the informative videos mentioned above, but also found sig’s voluntary upgrade program on their site. I found it odd considering sig’s formal statement screams CYA, as echoed by another comment in this thread.

P320 Voluntary Upgrade Program | SIG SAUER

The P320® Voluntary Upgrade Program is a SIG SAUER initiative to upgrade P320 pistols at no additional cost.

www.sigsauer.com

Ones that has been said to gone off, I wonder if this upgrade was done on it

 

[bigboyshooter]

I have one 320 and I’m not afraid of it going off. However, it’s not my favorite Sig. I prefer my P229 and 365 over the 320

 

[RDPICS]

Ones that has been said to gone off, I wonder if this upgrade was done on it

My thoughts exactly. My curiosity was piqued after seeing that page. I was trying to decipher the serial on the photos taken by LE and released online, but there was a bit of camera shake during image exposure that made the numbers hard to verify. I’m pretty good with photo editing but was unable to get a clear reading of the serial to input into the website.

 

[21SF 2.0]

Hear me out guys we know it’s garbage…but why exactly is it garbage. Lol

Honestly probably just a combination of things, mostly several design flaws. Doubt anyone will ever narrow it down to 1 thing

 

[bazooka]

Ones that has been said to gone off, I wonder if this upgrade was done on it

The FBI report for the Michigan State Police does mention the upgrade program. The upgrade program was started in 2017 to improve drop safety. A footnote in the FBI report:

The voluntary upgrade program began August 8, 2017. The voluntary upgrade program was in response to the risk of “potential
discharge of the firearm” when dropped. Other changes were made to the striker and trigger, as well as a mechanical disconnect
being incorporated. All firearms manufactured after this date contained the updated parts.

The report also says the department first started equipping M18's in April 2024. The UD happened in July 2024. My assumption is that the weapons were manufactured after 2017, so had the improved drop safety. This is also implied by another statement in the report:

A pre-upgrade Sig Sauer P320 striker safety lock was reviewed for comparison,

The FBI report is a very good read. User error is far from ruled out. The report shows the picture of a scratch on the inside of the trigger guard (right below the tip of the trigger) and a picture of the keys the officer was holding. Some quotes from the report:

BRF was successful in using keys, both flat and serrated profiles, to press the trigger while the M18 was holstered. The keys were approximately 1.7” and 1.0” respectively. The trigger could be fully pressed to the rear with sufficient pressure against the side of the trigger only, or by using the holster as a fulcrum. During this test it was observed that the keys caused an abrasion on the trigger guard near the area of the abrasion seen on the weapon when it arrived

several minutes prior to the uncommanded firing, the MSP motor officer conducted approximately three presentation drills from the holster to practice acquiring the red dot.

The MSP motor officer had objects in his hands at the time of the event, including keys.

There is no evidence of user error, but it's hard to rule it out. Also, the report did not talk at all about the possibility of the gun being assembled incorrectly. I have a feeling this vulnerability was unknown at the time. I have no idea if the testers made this mistake during their testing, even though they were still unable to reproduce the problem the officer had. Finally, the weapon that had the UD had no safety.

 

[presscheckpino]

Hear me out guys we know it’s garbage…but why exactly is it garbage. Lol

Honestly probably just a combination of things, mostly several design flaws. Doubt anyone will ever narrow it down to 1 thing

I’m still waiting to find p320 for 200-300 if they were really garbage

 

[Mongo]

No issues with mine 2000+ rounds so far…..people who have them that are real shooters love them and others are just others….

 

[bazooka]

No issues with mine 2000+ rounds so far…..people who have them that are real shooters love them and others are just others….

My shooting log shows 3800 rounds on my M18. It's been flawless. It's on my carry permit so I've done a lot of training with it. It's super easy to clean, inspect, and maintain. The FCU pops right out and so does the striker. I've not met anyone in person who has an issue with the platform. My range and shooting club accept it without any reservation.

But, even given all that, I would not carry one without a safety. I don't trust my own discipline enough. My regular teacher is always whacking me upside the head whenever I reholster too quickly. Considering I've had 15 hours of 1 on 1 with him and he's still not satisfied, I think a safety is best for me.

 

[DJD100]

My shooting log shows 3800 rounds on my M18. It's been flawless. It's on my carry permit so I've done a lot of training with it. It's super easy to clean, inspect, and maintain. The FCU pops right out and so does the striker. I've not met anyone in person who has an issue with the platform. My range and shooting club accept it without any reservation.

But, even given all that, I would not carry one without a safety. I don't trust my own discipline enough. My regular teacher is always whacking me upside the head whenever I reholster too quickly. Considering I've had 15 hours of 1 on 1 with him and he's still not satisfied, I think a safety is best for me.

Noting that the 320's trigger bar manual safety will not mitigate the UD problem as it does not block the sear, but it can of course block a operator problem.

 

[bazooka]

Noting that the 320's trigger bar manual safety will not mitigate the UD problem as it does not block the sear, but it can of course block a operator problem.

Right. I guess you want the safety to apply as close to the final primer strike as possible. So I guess it would be best to have the safety prevent the striker from moving. If there really is an issue with the slide being able to move upwards some to disengage the striker from the sear (as I've read some influencers suggest), locking the sear wouldn't even be enough.

For me, the safety is to cater for my handling errors. I do train a lot and actually get some pleasure from exercising careful discipline. But all it takes is for some distraction to throw me off my game and my life could be changed forever.

I'm in the camp of there being no UD problem for a properly assembled gun with the correct parts, but I'm always looking for evidence to the contrary (from people who don't get paid to influence). If the P320 is ever discovered to have a problem, I would probably switch out the P320 for my P229 on my carry permit. I shoot my P229 almost as well as I do my P320 (except for the initial DA shot). Surprisingly, the P220 is not much heavier than the P320 even though it's all metal. With 10 rounds of 147 grain ammo:

P320 32.02 oz
P229 34.57 oz

Not too much of a penalty.

 

[Kneethaniel]

My X5 Legion is such a great and flat shooting pistol. I haven’t had any issues with it at all. Not gonna lie though, with all the options out there and with what I have, it’s def not on my CCW. Call it being a sheep and giving in, but in my opinion why even chance it?

 

[bazooka]

Here is the video link if anyone cares to watch

Thanks for the video. I watched it and did some further experiments with my m18. In the video:

- The person demonstrated how they typically assemble the gun at 11:35. This puts the gun into a dangerous state.
- The person demonstrated that a magazine can't be inserted when the gun is in a dangerous state at 7:44.
- The person then demonstrated how a magazine can then be inserted by just locking the slide back at 8:00.

He then sort of suggested at 8:20 that he might have a loaded gun in a bad state. I've not been able to reproduce that and suspect he hasn't either. Using the slide catch to lock the slide always finishes the process of putting the gun into a good state. You can really hear the click when the parts move into correct position. No matter what I've tried, I've never been able to have a magazine inserted if the gun is in a dangerous state. The only thing I've seen on the internet about this is that it is possible to do that if you've accidentally used the wrong slide catch (from a different caliber gun).

The actual mechanics of the parts are quite simple. This particular safety feature is not complex engineering that might be prone to failure. If the sear is being held down, then the part that's doing it is in a position that blocks the magazine from entering the gun. And if a magazine is already in the gun, the part cannot move into a position to hold the sear down.

He did mention one thing that could be an issue if you have a problem with the gun (poor maintenance or damaged parts). When the part that releases the sear does that, the sear might not move up into correct position. But he didn't say there is any evidence this has ever happened. This same failure could happen to a P365. In fact, any gun could suffer some failure with the sear not moving completely upwards to sufficiently retain the striker if there's some jostling.

With my Glock a trigger pull moves the sear down allowing me to remove the slide. With P320 and P365, the safety lever causes the sear to move down allowing me to remove the slide. It seems it's a trade-off. A little extra engineering to move the sear down using the safety lever versus requiring a trigger pull to move it down. I have a feeling my confidence in my P320 is bolstered by the fact that I've pulled the thing apart to such an extent that it doesn't seem to be such a complex mystery.

 

[bazooka]

If you like the M18 you will love the m17. I personally have the Xfive Legion, m17, M18, compact carry, Sub compact, and the p320 in .40 cal/.357 and never had any issues.

https://www.sigsauer.com/p320-xfive-legion-california-compliant.html has me drooling.

 

[GunZKK]

I purchased a CA320 a while back on clearance and put a wilson frame on it with a comp slide, and it literally is one of the most reliable guns I've ever owned. Never had an issue with it. I did test the squeeze slide with trigger partially back and couldn't replicate it.
I think the way SIG handled themselves is why they are treated they way they are. If they just said we will test it and work on it and we apologize if some have issues we are making sure to fix it whatever, the public wouldn't be so harsh. But instead they said our gun is perfect and people are full of crap.
That being said, having a safety and probably if it had trigger shoe safety would eliminate the user problem, most law enforcement agencies are using the non safety version.

The one military incident was found to be user error, and he accidentally shot his fellow airmen.

It's really sad because SIG especially the German classic P series pistols are fantastic and they tarnished their reputation.

 

[richdollas]

People are always chiming in about SIG's reputation being at the bottom of the barrel now, but I cannot (even to save my life) find a reasonable deal on used or new P320s locally. If any of you anons have leads on P320 fire sales, specifically in SoCal/Central Valley, it would be much appreciated. The used market seems terrible, people are slapping on mediocre red dots on their P320 and suddenly that makes it worth $1,000? Please. I might spread fake news about the P320 cause I would love me a deal.

 

[presscheckpino]

People are always chiming in about SIG's reputation being at the bottom of the barrel now, but I cannot (even to save my life) find a reasonable deal on used or new P320s locally. If any of you anons have leads on P320 fire sales, specifically in SoCal/Central Valley, it would be much appreciated. The used market seems terrible, people are slapping on mediocre red dots on their P320 and suddenly that makes it worth $1,000? Please. I might spread fake news about the P320 cause I would love me a deal.

I’m still looking for a $300 p320