P320 Tabbed Trigger from Grayguns

[john_marsten_1873]

Yeah, the whole "gun just went off sitting on the table" thing didn't add up. No one takes their holster off, turns it around so the gun is facing them, and then plops it on the table and sits right in front of the muzzle. Turns out that's because the gun went off in someone else's hand, from them pulling the trigger.

This is exactly what I said the moment that story came out. I said immediately that it was foul play and didn’t make any sense.

 

[LateBraking]

this most recent one might interest you. I just wish sig would acknowledge that there's an issue so there can be an actual solution implemented. Like I own 2 320s and I just want to know what I can do to make them safe.

View attachment 187309

Problem with this story like so many other ones is that there is no video showing what he was doing, it’s just a facebook post. Such as having his hand on the firearm and potentially fidgeting with it when he wasn’t supposed to. The user will never admit to it, and there’s a lot of things humans do unconsciously.

My friend once got DQ’d at a USPSA match for doing something very innocuous without thinking, sometimes we just act without really processing.

But again, this is why I think this Grayguns tabbed trigger is such a good idea. It has the physical tab and the trigger block in the way for inadvertent fidget clickers, especially when they don’t like or won’t otherwise use physical safety tabs.

 

[weaverftw]

This is what i don't understand. I have yet to see a video of someone just shaking the firearm and it going off.

There isn’t one. It’s all people fiddling with their gun in the holster with god knows what in the trigger guard. With 5 million of the things out there, I haven’t seen any data showing the incidents are occurring above the norm.

 

[ReaperCustom45]

this most recent one might interest you. I just wish sig would acknowledge that there's an issue so there can be an actual solution implemented. Like I own 2 320s and I just want to know what I can do to make them safe.

View attachment 187309

Their description of the holster doesn't really make sense. On most holsters, the muzzle of the gun comes to the very end of the holster. This is implying there was carbon inside the holster, which would imply the gun went off before it was completely holstered. Also, how does a bullet graze an open ended holster? This sounds more like the dude's finger was on the trigger and he pulled it while holstering.

There is also the concern of if the gun was modified. I remember last year, there was a training group that had a similar incident and banned 320s over it, however it turned out the owner had modified the internals including sear spring weight. Can't really blame a gun that was modified in an unsafe way just to get a lighter trigger.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

this most recent one might interest you. I just wish sig would acknowledge that there's an issue so there can be an actual solution implemented. Like I own 2 320s and I just want to know what I can do to make them safe.

View attachment 187309

There’s a couple of other things since the USAF incident. Still no one has been able to definitively prove these weren’t caused by a trigger press - on a stock config 320.

Sig came out with a video on how to check if if your pistol is in good working order but that was primarily around spring tension that could just be normal wear.

Sig will not formally acknowledge that there is any issue. Nor will they release any upgrades or “fixes” as it could implicitly acknowledge an issue and hurt all the cases currently files against them.

They’ll likely just try and move on from the P320 and for on new and current platforms.

 

[chino1966]

Problem with this story like so many other ones is that there is no video showing what he was doing, it’s just a facebook post. Such as having his hand on the firearm and potentially fidgeting with it when he wasn’t supposed to. The user will never admit to it, and there’s a lot of things humans do unconsciously.

My friend once got DQ’d at a USPSA match for doing something very innocuous without thinking, sometimes we just act without really processing.

well there's lots of video evidence of 320s going off while holstered and nobody touching them. post heavily implies with evidence that the gun went off while being fully holstered. the guy posting is the organizer btw.

 

[ReaperCustom45]

There’s a couple of other things since the USAF incident. Still no one has been able to definitively prove these weren’t caused by a trigger press - on a stock config 320.

Sig came out with a video on how to check if if your pistol is in good working order but that was primarily around spring tension that could just be normal wear.

Sig will not formally acknowledge that there is any issue. Nor will they release and upgrades or “fixes” as it could implicitly acknowledge an issue and hurt all the cases currently files against them.

They’ll likely just try and move on from the P320 and for on new and current platforms.

Realistically that's the smart move. Issues or not, they really kinda outdid themselves with the 365 platform. You can have one gun be everything from a small pocket gun, to a full size duty or competition pistol, all while being thinner and lighter than the 320 with the same capacity. They really should just focus on the 365 from now on, it's arguably one of the best guns on the market.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

Realistically that's the smart move. Issues or not, they really kinda outdid themselves with the 365 platform. You can have one gun be everything from a small pocket gun, to a full size duty or competition pistol, all while being thinner and lighter than the 320 with the same capacity. They really should just focus on the 365 from now on, it's arguably one of the best guns on the market.

The other one is the P211 since the popularity of 2011’s (and competition) is growing.

 

[weaverftw]

well there's lots of video evidence of 320s going off while holstered and nobody touching them. post heavily implies with evidence that the gun went off while being fully holstered. the guy posting is the organizer btw.

I haven’t really seen them. Most every one I’ve seen shows the person fiddling with the gun or holster. I saw ONE of a cop squatting down and it went off - that one is questionable, but again why not submit the gun for testing and settle this once and for all. If you have a legit malfunctioning gun and it’s reproducible, that is a MONEY TICKET and that person wouldn’t be accepting an out of court pittance settlement…

 

[ReaperCustom45]

The other one is the P211 since the popularity of 2011’s (and competition) is growing.

It does look nice, but they missed it on pricing for me. While it looks like a decent gun, it's not like it's hand fit. Considering that, it's hard to justify dropping an extra $1000 on that over something like a Prodigy

 

[chino1966]

There isn’t one. It’s all people fiddling with their gun in the holster with god knows what in the trigger guard. With 5 million of the things out there, I haven’t seen any data showing the incidents are occurring above the norm.

doesn't matter if it's 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000. A gun shouldn't go off uncommanded especially a duty pistol that spends most of its life in a holster. It doesnt matter if your hand is touching the gun while it's holstered or if there's some dirt in the trigger guard. without a trigger press, the gun shouldn't go off.

 

[LateBraking]

I think everyone will ultimately have their perspective on this one. I can’t recall having seen “lots” of videos with them simply going off with absolutely nothing happening in an appropriate holster, and I think *everyone* would love to see a clear and unequivocal video showing that to put it to bed.

To your question as to what can be done to help, Sig Armorer has released their “C.O.P.” Kit, which includes their disconnector. That thing is very sensitive to it being out of battery, and it most definitely causes a dead trigger unless very locked up. Everything else in the kit just helps, such as the +20% sear springs and the safety lever support spring. If you’d rather do something than nothing. I’ve got them in all of my P320s since why not.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SigSauer/comments/18t0t9t/the_sig_armorer_sport_disconnector_review

The Sig Armorer P320 C.O.P. Kit | The Sig Armorer

www.thesigarmorer.com

And the Gray Guns trigger can only help more. Along with running a manual safety model, or installing one.

Historically, Glock probably has more uncommanded incidents over time than Sig does (or even exploding models) but has the benefit of having been around so long that the internet wasn’t such a hotbed back then. But that’s a whole different can of worms that I don’t intend to open, lol. Trying to keep this one on topic with my last above sentence.

Maybe this one needs its own thread, and is definitely off topic, but pretty sure this one won’t ever go off unintentionally. Arguably even intentionally, har har har.

 

[ReaperCustom45]

Realistically running the manual safety should be just fine. It blocks the trigger from being pulled, which is what is causing the discharges. Luckily the 320 has a decent safety design, similar in function to a 1911. I do wish someone would release an extended safety for them, but no luck yet. Just train with it until disengaging the safety becomes muscle memory and it wont slow you down at all.

 

[chino1966]

I think everyone will ultimately have their perspective on this one. I can’t recall having seen “lots” of videos with them simply going off with absolutely nothing happening in an appropriate holster, and I think *everyone* would love to see a clear and unequivocal video showing that to put it to bed.

To your question as to what can be done to help, Sig Armorer has released their “C.O.P.” Kit, which includes their disconnector. That thing is very sensitive to it being out of battery, and it most definitely causes a dead trigger unless very locked up. Everything else in the kit just helps, such as the +20% sear springs and the safety lever support spring. If you’d rather do something than nothing. I’ve got them in all of my P320s since why not.

https://www.reddit.com/r/SigSauer/comments/18t0t9t/the_sig_armorer_sport_disconnector_review

The Sig Armorer P320 C.O.P. Kit | The Sig Armorer

www.thesigarmorer.com

And the Gray Guns trigger can only help more. Along with running a manual safety model, or installing one.

Historically, Glock probably has more uncommanded incidents over time than Sig does (or even exploding models) but has the benefit of having been around so long that the internet wasn’t such a hotbed back then. But that’s a whole different can of worms that I don’t intend to open, lol. Trying to keep this one on topic with my last above sentence.

Maybe this one needs its own thread, and is definitely off topic, but pretty sure this one won’t ever go off unintentionally. Arguably even intentionally, har har har.

I got 2 agency ones and theyre pretty nice trigger. Honestly like em better than stock

 

[john_marsten_1873]

It does look nice, but they missed it on pricing for me. While it looks like a decent gun, it's not like it's hand fit. Considering that, it's hard to justify dropping an extra $1000 on that over something like a Prodigy

For sure! However it is a “good enough” in the sense that it’s more accessible (in price) than Staccato and more premium options, the reviews from some of the top competitors are positive, it takes P320 mags AND they’re releasing a California version soon.

Springfield could’ve made a KILLING if they released the Prodigy in California. Also, Staccato should’ve released the P4.5.

Now Sig is going grab that opportunity.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

doesn't matter if it's 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000. A gun shouldn't go off uncommanded especially a duty pistol that spends most of its life in a holster. It doesnt matter if your hand is touching the gun while it's holstered or if there's some dirt in the trigger guard. without a trigger press, the gun shouldn't go off.

The issue here is that there’s still no definitive proof there wasn’t a trigger press. Sig claims there could’ve been something in the holster that caused a trigger and maintains the gun can’t fire without it. No one has been able to prove otherwise.

 

[ReaperCustom45]

For sure! However it is a “good enough” in the sense that it’s more accessible (in price) than Staccato and more premium options, the reviews from some of the top competitors are positive, it takes P320 mags AND they’re releasing a California version soon.

Springfield could’ve made a KILLING if they released the Prodigy in California. Also, Staccato should’ve released the P4.5.

Now Sig is going grab that opportunity.

I will agree, certainly a better value than Stacatto. I really don't see the obsession people have with Stacattos. Don't get me wrong, they are nice guns, but way overpriced in my opinion. There's no reason they should cost over $2k. I'm still hoping Springfield brings the Prodigy. They've been bringing new guns to the roster, so they are interested in the market here. And the big advantage of the prodigy is they can just make a modified grip with a mag disconnect in it, instead of having to redesign the frame itself. Also a win for us, because swapping grips would delete the disco safety, unlike the new rostered Kimbers where they had to make irreversible mods to the frame for it.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

Realistically running the manual safety should be just fine. It blocks the trigger from being pulled, which is what is causing the discharges. Luckily the 320 has a decent safety design, similar in function to a 1911. I do wish someone would release an extended safety for them, but no luck yet. Just train with it until disengaging the safety becomes muscle memory and it wont slow you down at all.

This is exactly what I want: a better safety that I can ride.

But if you look at the FCU design the current safety placement is too close to the slide stop to increase the length. Increased width and raising the blade might be helpful but there’s not a lot of room for improvement.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I will agree, certainly a better value than Stacatto. I really don't see the obsession people have with Stacattos. Don't get me wrong, they are nice guns, but way overpriced in my opinion. There's no reason they should cost over $2k. I'm still hoping Springfield brings the Prodigy. They've been bringing new guns to the roster, so they are interested in the market here. And the big advantage of the prodigy is they can just make a modified grip with a mag disconnect in it, instead of having to redesign the frame itself. Also a win for us, because swapping grips would delete the disco safety, unlike the new rostered Kimbers where they had to make irreversible mods to the frame for it.

Yeah. It would be a pretty big win since Prodigy has both the most accessible price entry (by MSRP) AND the biggest drop-in aftermarket, already.

 

[weaverftw]

doesn't matter if it's 1 in 100 or 1 in 1000. A gun shouldn't go off uncommanded especially a duty pistol that spends most of its life in a holster. It doesnt matter if your hand is touching the gun while it's holstered or if there's some dirt in the trigger guard. without a trigger press, the gun shouldn't go off.

Dude it’s not 1:100 vs 1:1000 it’s like 1:100,000+ and there is no evidence it’s “uncommanded”… almost every video I’ve seen shows user error with one POSSIBLE exception. Every SINGLE product, whether gun, car, etc has an error/defect rate. There are documented instances and videos of lots of other guns having ADs and NDs. A Shadow 2 killed an RO at a USPSA match. The difference is there aren’t 5 mil of those out there and the hype train hasn’t caught on for clicks.

Show me one of two things:

1. A SINGLE instance of a p320 that’s been submitted for testing where this “uncommanded discharge” can be reproduced under controlled conditions.
2. Data analysis showing p320s have more issues than any other model out there, PER CAPITA.

It’d be EXCEEDINGLY EASY to produce the first thing if it existed. If my p320 shot me, I would have independent testing done immediately and after a massive nuclear verdict I would release it to the public. That hasn’t happened, because all these idiots who shot themselves because they modded their gun too much, used the wrong holster, or got their shirt stuck in the trigger guard all accepted $50k “go away” money from Sig because they knew they didn’t have a legit civil case. People always decry Sig for paying “hush money” but those people have no understanding of the litigation landscape and how EASY it would be to get a giant judgement from a firearms manufacturer if you actually had a malfunctioning factory gun.

I have never seen either of the two above, and anyone looking at this logically would want to see one of them.