Pistol recommendations for Limited optics / Carry optics

[Deleted member 16735]

I picked up a bone stock Shadow 2 (blue) in the last few months.

I’ll be honest, I didn’t think a pistol could improve my shooting that much but holy it’s such a nice gun!

Especially at distance, 20+ yards…being able group more tightly speed at that range (with irons) feels pretty awesome.

Just too heavy to carry and I also wouldn’t carry a hammer fired gun. But maybe one of these days I’ll pickup a compact.

But that DA to SA still trips me up a bit

I've had the same experience switching from a plastic gun to a CZ, I find it much easier to be accurate both at distance and even up close when I'm trying to move fast, I can just be more aggressive. I'm still mediocre it didn't turn me into a GM by any means, but it is a noticeable difference.

Definitely try to get your hands on the CGW pro kit, it will bring down that DA pull substantially from stock

 

[doggman61]

Well, because it is. They're just a few grand. One weekend racing at MotoAmerica could easily cost 5-10k and it's gone in 3 days, where your gun lasts for 50 years. If I had a really bad crash and completely totaled my ZX6R, that's 30-40k gone in a few moments. One set of slicks is over $500 now I think and they last about 20ish laps.

It's crazy seeing what some people's budgets are. I was pitted next to some car racers at Laguna Seca once and they were spending 30-40k in one race weekend.

I spent the majority of my 20's doing just this in the 2010's
So yeah, I personally think buying a $3k staccato p is cheap compared to the couple hundred grand I spent in road racing for 7 years.
I would have way more money in my retirement now if I didn't but it was worth every penny!

We all talk about the gun because its fun to pick them, but we all know as long as it runs well and it fits you it doesn't really matter.
Everyone at Richmond this weekend including myself and a world champ got smoked by a guy in his early 20's with a glock 17.

 

[Blade]

If anyone has a platypus for sale or interested in a AR pistol check out my ad. Thanks!

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I've had the same experience switching from a plastic gun to a CZ, I find it much easier to be accurate both at distance and even up close when I'm trying to move fast, I can just be more aggressive. I'm still mediocre it didn't turn me into a GM by any means, but it is a noticeable difference.

Definitely try to get your hands on the CGW pro kit, it will bring down that DA pull substantially from stock

Yeah. I’m sure much of it has to do with the heavier gun. Didn’t raise my classification or anything but certainly requires less effort to get good shots. Now that I know what’s possible I’m going to train harder with my M&P.

I actually have the CGW kit but I’ll probably spend a few more thousand rounds as that long DA trigger pull is some good training.

 

[paintballdad]

I'm just an average shooter and by no means can extract all the performance from my pistols but can honestly say that i have slightly better times and down less points overall shooting the Athena vs the Platypus. So i think the right equipment does matter some a bit. I started IDPA with a 92 Brigadier in SSP then added the LTT RDO slide when i moved to CO. I do remember also shooting slightly better with the 92 than with the Platypus.

The Platypus is a great pistol but I think it needs a bit more weight to it. A steel framed Platypus would be ( . Y . ).

 

[FriedChickies]

I'm considering acquisition of a pistol that may be better suited to USPSA competition than my current Glock 34.3. No knock against the Glock, it is efficiently customized, very reliable, and I enjoy shooting it. That said, I would like to explore other horizons to see what might suit me best.

I'm specifically considering the Stealth Arms Platypus. Five inch bull barrel with the standard "prickle" grip texture. I'm using the most granular Talon grip on my Glock and appreciate the control qualities that confers. I would like to at least equal that control with the Platypus.

So in addition to your recommendations for pistols in general, what are your thoughts for the Platypus grip textures? Should I go "extra aggressive" with the prickle texture?

Remember I'm in California and do not enjoy any roster exemptions beyond SSE.

Thanks in advance.

I just made M in CO this weekend so these are my thoughts. I currently run a CGW pro package Shadow 2 with 507 Comp, and actively compete in Majors from AIWB and also OWB.

If you’re a serious competitor and money is no issue, get a custom 2011 for LO. Get it tuned to your specs and customization. For CO, the Shadow 2 is king.

If you’re just casually competing at this time and aren’t actively planning on sinking time and money into Major matches/getting involved heavily with the sport, shoot whatever you have now. Throw on a magwell to whatever you have for LO.

Gun platforms are only important to a certain subjective extent. Most of the performance gains will be on the shooter’s technique and training.

 

[Experimentalist]

I just made M in CO this weekend so these are my thoughts. I currently run a CGW pro package Shadow 2 with 507 Comp, and actively compete in Majors from AIWB and also OWB.

If you’re a serious competitor and money is no issue, get a custom 2011 for LO. Get it tuned to your specs and customization. For CO, the Shadow 2 is king.

If you’re just casually competing at this time and aren’t actively planning on sinking time and money into Major matches/getting involved heavily with the sport, shoot whatever you have now. Throw on a magwell to whatever you have for LO.

Gun platforms are only important to a certain subjective extent. Most of the performance gains will be on the shooter’s technique and training.

Congratulations on making M, an admirable achievement.

Right now I'm in that formative stage where I'm not really sure where I want to go with it, hence my interest in other pistols. I like to try things, get a feel for different options.

I'm also set to take the USPSA RO course in July, so I can help with a nascent club at my local range. I enjoy not just the competition but the social interaction as well; the sport has good potential.

But mostly I'm very grateful for the insights and advice from yourself and everyone else in this thread. Not every day one gets to chat with such knowledgeable people. Thank you for your time and counsel.

 

[FriedChickies]

Congratulations on making M, an admirable achievement.

Right now I'm in that formative stage where I'm not really sure where I want to go with it, hence my interest in other pistols. I like to try things, get a feel for different options.

I'm also set to take the USPSA RO course in July, so I can help with a nascent club at my local range. I enjoy not just the competition but the social interaction as well; the sport has good potential.

But mostly I'm very grateful for the insights and advice from yourself and everyone else in this thread. Not every day one gets to chat with such knowledgeable people. Thank you for your time and counsel.

Thank you. It’s great you’re taking the RO class. You’ll learn tons and be better able to “game” stages by diving into the rules. And it’s always good to have more NROI certified ROs on a squad to balance duties.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

Congratulations on making M, an admirable achievement.

Right now I'm in that formative stage where I'm not really sure where I want to go with it, hence my interest in other pistols. I like to try things, get a feel for different options.

I'm also set to take the USPSA RO course in July, so I can help with a nascent club at my local range. I enjoy not just the competition but the social interaction as well; the sport has good potential.

But mostly I'm very grateful for the insights and advice from yourself and everyone else in this thread. Not every day one gets to chat with such knowledgeable people. Thank you for your time and counsel.

I’ll just throw out there that if you use your firearms for defense make sure to not only compete with them regularly but also take defense specific training and practice.

If you’re just a sportsman (or hobbyist) that’s perfectly fine. There’s a lot of defensive benefits to competing but there’s also some habits that can be formed which can be detrimental to defensive purposes and scenarios so it’s a good idea to train for and understand those circumstances.

Also, keep those guns close to OEM avoiding lightened triggers and springs. Stick with OEM slides and barrels tested for duty/defense tolerances. High tolerance and reliability is what you’re going for. Also, keep them super clean. If you can afford to buy a duplicate for training you should do so.

 

[weaverftw]

I’ll just throw out there that if you use your firearms for defense make sure to not only compete with them regularly but also take defense specific training and practice.

If you’re just a sportsman (or hobbyist) that’s perfectly fine. There’s a lot of defensive benefits to competing but there’s also some habits that can be formed which can be detrimental to defensive purposes and scenarios so it’s a good idea to train for and understand those circumstances.

Also, keep those guns close to OEM avoiding lightened triggers and springs. Stick with OEM slides and barrels tested for duty/defense tolerances. High tolerance and reliability is what you’re going for. Also, keep them super clean. If you can afford to buy a duplicate for training you should do so.

I’ve gone back and forth on this. What habits are you building in comp that are detrimental for HD/CCW, especially considering the skill gained from comp/training that is applicable to both? Does it matter if your glock has a 4lb GPT (or 3lb Timney) or a 5.5lb OEM trigger if someone breaks into your house and charges you with a knife? I’m not convinced there’s as much of a disconnect as some people think. Getting familiar with your gun and proficient at shooting it quickly and accurately is surely better than 99% of people who do nothing or do one “HD/CCW” class a year.

 

[1911-CV]

"What habits are you building in comp that are detrimental for HD/CCW" - Double-taps are an obvious one. USPHA and IDPA have you double-tap without thinking. But after a self-defense use of a firearm you need to be able to articulate why EVERY shot was fired...

 

[weaverftw]

"What habits are you building in comp that are detrimental for HD/CCW" - Double-taps are an obvious one. USPHA and IDPA have you double-tap without thinking. But after a self-defense use of a firearm you need to be able to articulate why EVERY shot was fired...

I’m not sure that’s really practically relevant… “I came upon a stranger who had broken into my house and he lunged at me with a knife so I fired at him until he stopped”… not that you would even provide that much of a statement without an attorney. If someone is presenting a threat to you or your family member’s life I really doubt whether you shoot once or twice will be relevant in the investigation/court proceedings. What if you just shot once and then waited to see if the dude was going to keep charging at you and he put a knife into your throat? I don’t disagree with your overall sentiment/hesitancy, and we should all think about these things, but in this case I think it’s unlikely to be an issue.

Competing/practicing for practical shooting is probably a 101% benefit to any potential real life scenario. Now, I wouldn’t keep a 1.5lb trigger 2011 as my HD/carry gun just in case (adrenaline could cause involuntary muscle contraction and I’d rather have a 4+ lb trigger to be safe) but I don’t think competing in itself could be detrimental. Obviously if you only shoot USPSA you should also practice drawing from concealment etc but I don’t think the things are contradictory

 

[FriedChickies]

Hey guys, just wanted to mention that this is getting off topic..

 

[PlasticMan]

Hey guys, just wanted to mention that this is getting off topic..

Yes.

SO... If youre gaming, get a gamer gun. If you're just trying to be a proficient user of your defensive equipment, use what you've got. I do both, but I have way more fun with my defensive gun than my gamer gun for no other reason than it just keeps me honest with my fundamentals. For me it's CO/striker or PCC for USPSA and defensive training and 2011 in outlaw and everything else where I just wanna go fast.

 

[weaverftw]

Sorry for fueling the off topic rabbit hole. On topic:

I feel like I’m in a similar position as OP, as I’m not really sure what I want to shoot mid/long term in USPSA. I’ve only done 3 matches, the first with a DA/SA CZ 75BD and the other two with the DA/SA SP-01 that replaced it (with CGW pro package), and it’s been great, but I also just got a G34 and threw an optic on it and kind of want to shoot it in CO. Trying to decide what gun to buy (or upgrade) is difficult.

I have also shot some really high end 2011s and I will just echo what many top shooters/instructors have said, that a fancy gun for a beginner might make you a little faster but it’s handicapping your growth/development as the more factory guns will bring out inconsistencies you need to iron out. You might find switching from a nice 2011 to most other guns is difficult and drops you a class, whereas dudes regularly learn and dominate on fairly stock guns. Skill is most important and a really good gun might hamper your development.

That’s my excuse for being a poor.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

I’ve gone back and forth on this. What habits are you building in comp that are detrimental for HD/CCW, especially considering the skill gained from comp/training that is applicable to both? Does it matter if your glock has a 4lb GPT (or 3lb Timney) or a 5.5lb OEM trigger if someone breaks into your house and charges you with a knife? I’m not convinced there’s as much of a disconnect as some people think.

Some of this stuff should be done differently in defense scenarios than how you compete and some of it is where you've never trained any differently but might think competition is adequate:

• Engaging open targets
• getting off the X
• properly using cover
• understanding what counts as adequate cover
• assessing when to prioritize getting to cover vs. when to draw and shoot
• recognizing attack pre-cursors
• when to run and avoid conflict altogether
• you can’t “aim through” actual walls so understanding muzzle control when you don’t know what’s on the other side
• clearing rooms - in your house, with your partner, getting kids to safety
• dropping partial mags vs. tactical reloading and when to do so
• regularly firing more than 2 rounds with high speed and an accuracy
• constantly fighting for a better [tactical] position
• what if you get hit
• countering vehicle ambushes
• knowing how to use a vehicle for cover - when better cover isn't available
• what's your routine for getting in/out of the car

In competition, there’s few instances where there’s an unknown variable thrown at in the middle of a stage. You get to walk it, plan it and even when things go wrong there's a common understanding of how to fix or mitigate the vast majority of issues. Bottom line, you know what you're going into and you're able prepare for.

"What habits are you building in comp that are detrimental for HD/CCW" - Double-taps are an obvious one. USPHA and IDPA have you double-tap without thinking. But after a self-defense use of a firearm you need to be able to articulate why EVERY shot was fired...

This right here! How often do you actually train defensive shooting drills (besides Son of the Bill Drill classifier)?
Also, light trigger and nerves. When you're in your house with your family, you have neighbors, there's innocent bystanders around, reholstering...

And on reholstering, during scenario-based trainings you'd be surprised how many people either forgot or didn't realize they should not be holding a gun when cops show up. Then if they're lucky enough not to be put down they still freakout and fire off a round once they're getting commands barked at them.

Getting familiar with your gun and proficient at shooting it quickly and accurately is surely better than 99% of people who do nothing or do one “HD/CCW” class a year.

Had I never pursued more defensive training I might agree with this but I'll opine that "better" is marginal if at all. Context and situation matters significantly. I don't have any confidence that only competing would make someone any better at keeping innocent bystanders safe.

Even for myself I'm still learning and there's never any guaranteed that the totality of circumstances will favor me. But I'll continuously seek out different ways to train, to push my nerves and help me better react to situations that I can't plan. The most important skill that I get out of it all is really just improved ability to recognize potential threats and avoid them. When I'm not able to do that finding cover or a better position to respond when there's no other option.

 

[PlasticMan]

Weaver, I think you're at a point where it's just time to jump in and start playing the game. Nothing will tell you what you really need gun or equipment-wise better than just using what you have under the pressure of a timer and the judgy stares of those who have shot a few more matches than you. Before you know it, everyone will be calling you by name and trying to involve you in all the high-school drama around the range. It's awesome.

 

[john_marsten_1873]

If someone is presenting a threat to you or your family member’s life I really doubt whether you shoot once or twice will be relevant in the investigation/court proceedings. What if you just shot once and then waited to see if the dude was going to keep charging at you and he put a knife into your throat?

I read that response as more so, if all you're ever doing is training to fire 2rds and you have to use a Bill Drill for defense, can you still maintain control at the faster firing rate and keep all rounds on target.