Pros and Cons of Optics vs Irons on Handguns

[BaronMaupertuis]

Without question?

Tell that to someone with tremors, anxiety, MS, or some sort of medical condition or physical disability. Do you think they can find the dot as easily as finding a front sight? You can teach that on the first day of class and have them finding the dot by the end of the day, but can they do that next week while someone is barging into the room, and they are busy trying to find the dot because you taught them that is the thing to do.

 

[sjb323]

How long did it take you to arrive as a Limited Division Master Class Shooter, Sir? Surely a bit more than a couple of days of class.

Being "threat focused" is probably easy for you, because of the time and effort you put in to get to where you're at.

Now I'm not a Master Class shooter. So don't take my word for it that what you're saying is a lot easier said than done.

Let's see this what the 8-time USPC Champion and 3 time IDPA Champ says about this matter

"It's a very very difficult thing to get yourself not to focus on that dot and instead look where you want the bullets to go."

It takes a lot more time to master a red dot than you guys are letting on. Most people aren't Master shooters.

This is not a question of "Which one is better (Optic or Iron)" -- this is a question which one takes longer to learn.

Didn't watch the video, but I've taken and hosted classes with Ben. I was also a member of PTSG for a while as well. Him, Joel, and Hwansik definitely upped my shooting game and helped me to get to where I am now (although I'm a long way from where I want to be). In fact, I was able to implement many of their drills at the agency that I used to instruct at. All good stuff. Being target focused is something that I still struggle with, and it's something that I'm always working on, as are most others that I shoot with. Being target focused is easy. Being target focused with a sight picture is not.

I've been training new shooters for a few minutes now, mostly on iron sights. When my agency brought optics on board, I was fortunate enough to be one of the instructors to implement pistol red dots into the curriculum. Myself and other instructors all found that red dots are a much easier concept for new shooters to grasp. Not only this, but the newer shooters progress at a much faster rate when using a dot. Please let us know of how your experience teaching others on both sighting systems has influenced you to come to your conclusion.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

If you keep watching Ben and Joel's videos you will hear them say that red dots are easier to teach beginners. It's ok to just admit you don't have that much experience instead of arguing with a bunch of long term shooters and teachers.

 

[sicks]

not at all the point of this post - but, I leverage two slides for my p365 carry. one with a dot for aiwb and an irons slide for pocket carry.

 

[rfgCA]

Didn't watch the video, but I've taken and hosted classes with Ben. I was also a member of PTSG for a while as well. Him, Joel, and Hwansik definitely upped my shooting game and helped me to get to where I am now (although I'm a long way from where I want to be). In fact, I was able to implement many of their drills at the agency that I used to instruct at. All good stuff. Being target focused is something that I still struggle with, and it's something that I'm always working on, as are most others that I shoot with. Being target focused is easy. Being target focused with a sight picture is not.

I've been training new shooters for a few minutes now, mostly on iron sights. When my agency brought optics on board, I was fortunate enough to be one of the instructors to implement pistol red dots into the curriculum. Myself and other instructors all found that red dots are a much easier concept for new shooters to grasp. Not only this, but the newer shooters progress at a much faster rate when using a dot. Please let us know of how your experience teaching others on both sighting systems has influenced you to come to your conclusion.

To answer your last question, I'm not a teacher of firearms, I have a different employment, a part of which instructs the instructors. So learning and learning systems isn't unfamiliar.

You asked how I arrived at my conclusions. I don't have any conclusions, except for the ones I stated at the beginning of this thread. That each person has their way.

In class, there is only one way -- the instructor's way. This is the usual problem with Instructors.

So, if you are pounding the table about Optics being the only way, which is the tenor of your posts, this is flawed.

If you keep watching Ben and Joel's videos you will hear them say that red dots are easier to teach beginners. It's ok to just admit you don't have that much experience instead of arguing with a bunch of long term shooters and teachers.

I took Stoeger's words as they were in plain English. He referenced the doing, not the teaching.

I would admit that I don't have much experience to argue with long term shooters and teachers, but I can't do that. I have 40 years in one, and 30 years in the other.

And as for arguing with teachers, do you think that teachers are the only ones entitled to opinions? This is the usual problem with teachers. Too many of them think they know everything. In the world of teaching guns, it's particularly worse.

Lastly, I'm fully aware that if an instructor offered a "learn to shoot with irons" class, he would have no job. Do you know where I'm going with that?

 

[9mmContagion]

If you have a red dot on one gun, it should be on all of your guns. This whole, “I’ll carry a dot, or irons, depending on my mood.” Is a horrible justification. Learn the dot and use it on every pistol so every pistol is consistent. You’re going to train to use the dot, then pull out a CCW to find you’re not carrying a dot today… doesn’t sound smart IMHO. I’ve been all in on dots for about 10 years now. Never looked back. Is it good to practice with irons still (in case of failure), absolutely! But every pistol has a dot, and primarily the same dot. All of mine are Trijicon RMR, RMRcc for CCW, SRO for range only pistols.
Same goes for lights. Keep the same manual of arms across the board so it takes all thinking out off the board. All pistols have same setup, so I don’t have to think, oh what pistol am I carrying and does it have irons or red dot, or light or no light.