PSA: Purchasing without Real ID

[Gawernator]

Sacramento gun range has the vp9 A1k

Good to know but too late now. Price?

 

[Boomhauer]

Finally gave in and got REAL ID. The whole process including my time at DMV and online was maybe an hour.

So, I’ve been using my passport and DL combo to buy guns since I turned 18 and I’ve never had an issue, until now.

I’ve been trying to buy the HK VP9A1 K before the rebate expires and it seems like Turners is the only store in the Sacramento area that stocks them or even knows what they are. However two different managers told me they can’t sell me a gun because my passport has my full middle name and my DL has an initial. He stated that DOJ cracked down on them for doing sales that way and now they can’t do it.

I don’t know how accurate that is since for over a decade I’ve been buying that way and it’s never come up as an issue, I have bought 3 guns this year even.

TLDR if anyone like me never got REAL ID because you have your passport, I guess you might as well just get it to avoid problems at Turners or other stores.

It takes about two weeks to get your card in the mail so I’m basically going to be buying the gun within a couple days of the rebate ending hopefully. DMV worker told me 10 days probably but it can take up to 4 weeks.

Also Turner’s manager offered me a 5% military discount on the gun, that’s nice.

Been putting this off for just about 5 years lol I guess it’s time.

 

[No_glonks]

I have real ID longer than my first firearm. That tells the story, doesn’t it?

 

[socalgunowner909]

Sounds like another case of turners being turners.

 

[Jimi Jah]

Keeping my illegal alien DL. Never have a problem with backup ID. If Turners wants to be d*cks, that's on them.

In California the illegal alien DL comes with benefits. Since our state government set it up that way I'll play along.

Another benefit is the federal government honors it with a back up. I like that. If everyone gets that DL the feds will assume everyone in California is illegal.

 

[AaronV54]

If you have your CCW, it makes thing alot easier as well.

 

[Gawernator]

If you have your CCW, it makes thing alot easier as well.

The ccw didn't help

 

[No_glonks]

Keeping my illegal alien DL. Never have a problem with backup ID. If Turners wants to be d*cks, that's on them.

In California the illegal alien DL comes with benefits. Since our state government set it up that way I'll play along.

Another benefit is the federal government honors it with a back up. I like that. If everyone gets that DL the feds will assume everyone in California is illegal.

Need one of these too. Maybe will get free healthcare and UC tuition paid for my kid.

 

[iloveredmeat]

Never have a problem with backup ID. If Turners wants to be d*cks, that's on them.

Turners isn't being a "d*ck".

They don't make the rules. They're just following the rules that the DOJ sets and that every FFL is required to follow. (not all do)

The DOJ rule is that if you don't have a Real ID, and have a Federal Limits Apply (FLA) license or identification card, you need to provide a birth cert, a passport, or permanent resident card. The DOJ is VERY clear that the names on the FLA and the additional document have to match EXACTLY. Exactly exactly.

I believe Turner's gets audited every couple of years, and if it's found that they let some stuff slide, even little stuff, they are subject to fines and potential suspension of FFL. With 30+ stores, not worth it to fudge around the rules.

At my local Turner's they price match local brick-and-mortar stores if it's the same exact model and in stock.

For military and law enforcement they have a 5% automatic discount on all non-sale items, and if it is on sale, you get whichever price is lower.

Ill have to ask the Turners here about the discount ...even when I showed my dd214 for the firstline program, they didn't offer me one

The Firstline Program is already a waaay deeper discount than 5%, and they can't double-up on discounts.

I hope that helps explain.

 

[Gawernator]

Turners isn't being a "d*ck".

They don't make the rules. They're just following the rules that the DOJ sets and that every FFL is required to follow. (not all do)

The DOJ rule is that if you don't have a Real ID, and have a Federal Limits Apply (FLA) license or identification card, you need to provide a birth cert, a passport, or permanent resident card. The DOJ is VERY clear that the names on the FLA and the additional document have to match EXACTLY. Exactly exactly.

I believe Turner's gets audited every couple of years, and if it's found that they let some stuff slide, even little stuff, they are subject to fines and potential suspension of FFL. With 30+ stores, not worth it to fudge around the rules.

At my local Turner's they price match local brick-and-mortar stores if it's the same exact model and in stock.

For military and law enforcement they have a 5% automatic discount on all non-sale items, and if it is on sale, you get whichever price is lower.


The Firstline Program is already a waaay deeper discount than 5%, and they can't double-up on discounts.

I hope that helps explain.

Where does DOJ say ‘match EXACTLY’? 11 CCR §4045.1(c) says ‘differs from,’ and DOJ's own Initial Statement of Reasons says subsection (c) addresses discrepancies caused by a ‘name-changing event.’ There has been no name-changing event here; the DL abbreviates Andrew as A. If DOJ has issued dealer guidance specifically stating that a middle initial versus the corresponding full middle name constitutes a §4045.1(c) mismatch, I'd genuinely like to see it.

I'm not sure this is the correct interpretation otherwise how have I bought 20 guns this way with zero problems from DOJ

 

[Jimi Jah]

Need one of these too. Maybe will get free healthcare and UC tuition paid for my kid.

You are also less likely to get a traffic ticket. Cops know illegals don't pay tickets.

 

[Gawernator]

Sounds like another case of turners being turners.

This turned out to be false. I just left The Gun Range on Watt and they couldn't sell me the gun. They got dinged on my last PPT there by DOJ because my middle name isn't on my DL, but it is on my passport. Luckily my REAL ID should be here in 2 weeks or less... but it's not just Turner's, seems to be a crackdown.

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

There is no amount of discount that would have me buying a firearm at Turners.

As a side note . . . I had my full middle name on Driver's license and just middle initial on Voter registration. I was getting summoned all the time. Change the Voter Registration to full middle name to match DL and problem went away.

 

[mountain_yokai]

Turners isn't being a "d*ck".

They don't make the rules. They're just following the rules that the DOJ sets and that every FFL is required to follow. (not all do)

The DOJ rule is that if you don't have a Real ID, and have a Federal Limits Apply (FLA) license or identification card, you need to provide a birth cert, a passport, or permanent resident card. The DOJ is VERY clear that the names on the FLA and the additional document have to match EXACTLY. Exactly exactly.

I believe Turner's gets audited every couple of years, and if it's found that they let some stuff slide, even little stuff, they are subject to fines and potential suspension of FFL. With 30+ stores, not worth it to fudge around the rules.

At my local Turner's they price match local brick-and-mortar stores if it's the same exact model and in stock.

For military and law enforcement they have a 5% automatic discount on all non-sale items, and if it is on sale, you get whichever price is lower.


The Firstline Program is already a waaay deeper discount than 5%, and they can't double-up on discounts.

I hope that helps explain.

I know that but they didn't offer it up on other guns Ive bought there

 

[Shellbackitup]

But is that true that you can't buy a gun if your DL has a middle initial and passport has full middle name? Seems dumb

Turners is the worst for this. But I started having issues at other FFL's due to the same issue (DL had initial, passport had full middle name). So it's not just Turners, it appears it really is something that is being called out on audits.

I finally caved and got a real ID and that's the end of that frustration.

 

[BONECUTR]

As a FFL I will vent about everyone who seems to not know their name when getting documents.
I see it every day with people that have wrong and incomplete names on the documents.
If I ever got something with an abbreviated name/Incomplete/ect I would immediate contact that agency and get it fixed.

Sample : Jonathan Michael Smith

Passport Jonathan M Smith
DL John Michael Smith
FSC Jonathan Smith
Utility Bill J Smith

This happens every week.... Like Put your full name on every document or don't complain to me about having to get more documents.

 

[Shellbackitup]

As a FFL I will vent about everyone who seems to not know their name when getting documents.
I see it every day with people that have wrong and incomplete names on the documents.
If I ever got something with an abbreviated name/Incomplete/ect I would immediate contact that agency and get it fixed.

Sample : Jonathan Michael Smith

Passport Jonathan M Smith
DL John Michael Smith
FSC Jonathan Smith
Utility Bill J Smith

This happens every week.... Like Put your full name on every document or don't complain to me about having to get more documents.

I understand your perspective, that's gotta be annoying. Being an FFL is already heavily regulated and you really have to pay attention to detail. So having inconsistent info has got to be frustrating.

However from the other side, it's not exactly easy to change your name on your passport or Driver's License to match.

I ended up having to wait until my DL expired since they wouldn't let me change my name on my Driver's License since my name hadn't changed.

And the whole reason middle initial was used instead of my middle name is that is how my military ID was issued (why the F the military didn't put my full name on my ID is mystery to me too)

So for 5 long years I had to deal with being turned away by some FFL's and accepted by others.

None of it was due to my decision to put my middle initial on my ID, that was done by the DMV and MEPS and it took me nearly 20 years to finally have ID documents that fully match and include my full name.

Long winded way of saying "boy do I feel your frustration, it's frustrating on the other side too"

 

[Gawernator]

As a FFL I will vent about everyone who seems to not know their name when getting documents.
I see it every day with people that have wrong and incomplete names on the documents.
If I ever got something with an abbreviated name/Incomplete/ect I would immediate contact that agency and get it fixed.

Sample : Jonathan Michael Smith

Passport Jonathan M Smith
DL John Michael Smith
FSC Jonathan Smith
Utility Bill J Smith

This happens every week.... Like Put your full name on every document or don't complain to me about having to get more documents.

Seems like you just need to get REAL ID. I didn't choose middle initial for my DL when I was 16 that's for sure lol, they just did it. Guess it's an issue now

 

[Shellbackitup]

Seems like you just need to get REAL ID. I didn't choose middle initial for my DL when I was 16 that's for sure lol, they just did it. Guess it's an issue now

To really make it complex, my parents changed the spelling of my name when I was 6 months old.

So my birth certificate and social security card ( and all subsequent IDs) have different names on them.

So I was never able to use my birth certificate as a form of ID.

Man I jumped thru some hoops to buy my guns.

Glad I have a real ID now

 

[BONECUTR]

Man I jumped thru some hoops to buy my guns.

I had a lady that was in her 60's and was struggling to get proper documents squared away for months because she had gone by a nickname for so long (over 40 year) that almost everything she had was under a made up name.