Legal Question about buying off roster gun from private party transfer

[renodoko]

saw your WTB listing. we no longer have a 1 in 30 so you dont have to wait until March to do a PPT

What? Since when did they change the law?!

 

[vin123]

What? Since when did they change the law?!

about 5-6 months ago I believe

 

[renodoko]

about 5-6 months ago I believe

Awesome yeah looks like since Aug 2024. Thank you for the info!

 

[boltstop]

One more piece of advice since you are new to all this; be very discreet where and how you do any inspection - don't go waving a gun around in a parking lot. A passer by or someone looking out from an adjacent building might think a robbery or a murder is about to take place and call the police.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

One more piece of advice since you are new to all this; be very discreet where and how you do any inspection - don't go waving a gun around in a parking lot. A passer by or someone looking out from an adjacent building might think a robbery or a murder is about to take place and call the police.

As long as they keep it within the trunk; they have not violated any California Open Carry Laws.

 

[DJD100]

If it’s owned legally, then it doesn’t matter. You’d be buying on off roster 365 without grip and slide. This is my understanding

So asides from a Type 1 LEO, can anyone else who moves here for example, or something else etc, legally possess an off-roster Sig FCU in CA (no Sig FCU's are on the roster), and thusly legally be able to PPT it to a civilian like me?

Since only a Type 1 LEO can legally PPT a off-roster FCU/Gun to a civilian, while other LEO types cannot, it would seem that nobody else could legally PPT it to me, no?

 

[GeeQ87]

So asides from a Type 1 LEO, can anyone else who moves here for example, or something else etc, legally possess an off-roster Sig FCU in CA (no Sig FCU's are on the roster), and thusly legally be able to PPT it to a civilian like me?

Since only a Type 1 LEO can legally PPT a off-roster FCU/Gun to a civilian, while other LEO types cannot, it would seem that nobody else could legally PPT it to me, no?

If someone moves into California with off roster firearms, I believe they need to register them with the DOJ so they are on file and can be sold within the state (iirc).

Once an off roster/fcu transfers from LEO to civilian, that civilian can one day resell it via PPT.

 

[DJD100]

If someone moves into California with off roster firearms, I believe they need to register them with the DOJ so they are on file and can be sold within the state (iirc).

Once an off roster/fcu transfers from LEO to civilian, that civilian can one day resell it via PPT.

Can anyone confirm this?

 

[westsidearms]

If someone moves into California with off roster firearms, I believe they need to register them with the DOJ so they are on file and can be sold within the state (iirc).

Once an off roster/fcu transfers from LEO to civilian, that civilian can one day resell it via PPT.

They do not have to register them first. If they have a CA ID/DL, they can start PPTing them right away without registering them.

The only problem with the FCU transfer might be your PPT dealer has to do a Safe Handling Demonstration with you unless you have an exemption. That is impossible to do without a complete handgun. They might substitute one of their shop guns for the safety demonstration. You are 100% best off going to a non-chain, knowledgeable dealer for all of this. Buy some ammo and accessories while you are there to show them you appreciate their smooth and non hassle handling of your PPT. However, definitely ask them now if they deliver on undetermined and if they would PPT a FCU to a non-exempt FSC holder. Then you would be good to go.

 

[joefrank64k]

saw your WTB listing. we no longer have a 1 in 30 so you dont have to wait until March to do a PPT

What? Since when did they change the law?!

about 5-6 months ago I believe

Minor point: The 1-in-30 law didn't change; it's still on the books. There's an injunction against enforcement of it while the lawsuit works its way through the system.

Hopefully, it stays that way, because the law was updated on 01/01/2025 to include ALL applications to purchase, including PPTs. There are the usual exemptions (LEO, 03/COE, etc) but no longer exemptions for receivers, precursor parts, or PPT.

BIG WIN! Injunction Back In Place On "1 in 30" Law - CRPA

We are thrilled that a Ninth Circuit panel has lifted the stay on the district court’s...

crpa.org

 

[renodoko]

Minor point: The 1-in-30 law didn't change; it's still on the books. There's an injunction against enforcement of it while the lawsuit works its way through the system.

Hopefully, it stays that way, because the law was updated on 01/01/2025 to include ALL applications to purchase, including PPTs. There are the usual exemptions (LEO, 03/COE, etc) but no longer exemptions for receivers, precursor parts, or PPT.

BIG WIN! Injunction Back In Place On "1 in 30" Law - CRPA

We are thrilled that a Ninth Circuit panel has lifted the stay on the district court’s...

crpa.org

So until Jan 1st 2025, 1 in 30 law was exempt for PPT but since it's already 2025 we still have to wait 30 days for next gun purchase even with PPT?
This is what I found on DOJ website

Effective January 1, 2025:

• Eliminates an existing private party transaction exemption from the prohibition on more than one firearm purchase within a 30-day period.
• Creates an exemption to the 30-day period for any private party transfers where the seller is, at the time of the transaction, required under state law or by court order to relinquish all firearms.
• Creates an exemption to the 30-day period for private party transfers where the seller is transferring firearms as a result of death of the owner of the firearms.

I also asked on r/CAGuns

https://www.reddit.com/r/CAguns/comments/1inwcm4/need_to_confirm_on_2025_1_in_30_guns_purchase_law

And people told me I should be fine since there are no more 1 in 30 days laws for both PPT and purchasing at a store now.

 

[treelogger]

The shops, that I have ppt at in the past were all fine with meeting, inspecting firearm, and also handing over cash inside the store.

Some are, some are not. It can't hurt to ask. That's one of the reasons to do the PPT at a small FFL that specializes in transfers only, instead of a gun store: They tend to be much more experienced and clear on how to do it. With gun stores, in particular the large chain stores, they are more focused on selling new guns out of their stock, and may have less experience and less training (and often less of a will) to do PPTs.

So asides from a Type 1 LEO, can anyone else who moves here for example, or something else etc, legally possess an off-roster Sig FCU in CA (no Sig FCU's are on the roster), and thusly legally be able to PPT it to a civilian like me?

Since only a Type 1 LEO can legally PPT a off-roster FCU/Gun to a civilian, while other LEO types cannot, it would seem that nobody else could legally PPT it to me, no?

Anyone who is not prohibited from having firearms can own and possess that Sig FCU. Anyone who owns one can PPT it to a buyer (again, assuming the buyer is not prohibited, and they follow the legal PPT procedure). As westsidearms explained, it requires a knowledgeable FFL to do the transaction, but it can be done.

The reason your questions are so confused is that you are mixing up two things, namely (a) who can own, possess, and sell one, and (b) how can that person have originally acquired it. The answers to (a) and (b) are completely independent. And the answer to (b) is: Since it is not on the roster, the owner of the Sig FCU can not have bought it in a normal gun store purchase transaction in California. They either bought it because they are exempt from the roster (as for example many LEOs are), or they already owned it when they moved into the state, or they got it through a parent/child or in general intrafamily or inheritance transfer from out of state.

 

[treelogger]

So until Jan 1st 2025, 1 in 30 law was exempt for PPT

Right now, due to a lawsuit called Nguyen v. Bonta, there is no 1-in-30 limitation in California. None, zip, zilch. Not for PPT, not for new purchases. This is not due to it being Jan 1st or any new law, but due to a federal district judge's order in that lawsuit. That happened in August 2024, when the 9th circuit lifted the stay on the judge's injunction.

The stuff the DoJ has on their website is not a lie and it is not false. There are indeed new laws coming into effect about PPTs, but they are currently irrelevant as far as the 1-in-30 limitation is concerned.

Note that this situation may change; I don't remember whether the state is appealing the full case to the 9th circuit, or what the next step in this case will be.

 

[joefrank64k]

So until Jan 1st 2025, 1 in 30 law was exempt for PPT but since it's already 2025 we still have to wait 30 days for next gun purchase even with PPT?
This is what I found on DOJ website

Effective January 1, 2025:

• Eliminates an existing private party transaction exemption from the prohibition on more than one firearm purchase within a 30-day period.
• Creates an exemption to the 30-day period for any private party transfers where the seller is, at the time of the transaction, required under state law or by court order to relinquish all firearms.
• Creates an exemption to the 30-day period for private party transfers where the seller is transferring firearms as a result of death of the owner of the firearms.

I also asked on r/CAGuns

https://www.reddit.com/r/CAguns/comments/1inwcm4/need_to_confirm_on_2025_1_in_30_guns_purchase_law

And people told me I should be fine since there are no more 1 in 30 days laws for both PPT and purchasing at a store now.

The law is on the books, but it can't be enforced right now, due to the injunction (see link from CRPA).

You are 100% GtG for unlimited purchases and PPT's.

BIG WIN! Injunction Back In Place On "1 in 30" Law - CRPA

We are thrilled that a Ninth Circuit panel has lifted the stay on the district court’s...

crpa.org

 

[pikachu]

1) NEVER pay a deposit. Pay cash at time/place of transaction.
2) Inspect the firearm before purchase- your biggest risk is purchasing a broken gun.
3) You can mitigate 30+ day DROS delay risks by using an FFL who releases on “Undetermined”.

The linked FFL list above is not comprehensive (ie: Glendale Gun Depot releases on Undetermined but isn’t on this list). Call your local FFLs in advance and ask if they release on Undetermined, and their policy on how they want you to exchange PPT cash (in or out of store). If your FFL does not release on Undetermined they may deny transfer to you and return the off-roster pistol to the seller; getting a cash refund from the seller will be an annoyance for you, especially if travel is involved.

Hope this helps.

 

[DJD100]

Some are, some are not. It can't hurt to ask. That's one of the reasons to do the PPT at a small FFL that specializes in transfers only, instead of a gun store: They tend to be much more experienced and clear on how to do it. With gun stores, in particular the large chain stores, they are more focused on selling new guns out of their stock, and may have less experience and less training (and often less of a will) to do PPTs.


Anyone who is not prohibited from having firearms can own and possess that Sig FCU. Anyone who owns one can PPT it to a buyer (again, assuming the buyer is not prohibited, and they follow the legal PPT procedure). As westsidearms explained, it requires a knowledgeable FFL to do the transaction, but it can be done.

The reason your questions are so confused is that you are mixing up two things, namely (a) who can own, possess, and sell one, and (b) how can that person have originally acquired it. The answers to (a) and (b) are completely independent. And the answer to (b) is: Since it is not on the roster, the owner of the Sig FCU can not have bought it in a normal gun store purchase transaction in California. They either bought it because they are exempt from the roster (as for example many LEOs are), or they already owned it when they moved into the state, or they got it through a parent/child or in general intrafamily or inheritance transfer from out of state.

Thanks, very much appreciated, it's making sense now, so does anyone have a Sig P365 FCU for sale near the SF Bay Area LOL?

 

[Librarian]

Can anyone confirm this?

Sure.

The law requiring registration of guns imported by New Residents does not reference the Roster.

That's because the Roster is enforced by CA FFLs at point of sale - if one buys from an FFL and is not otherwise exempt (typically LEO) or the gun exempt (typically C&R) or the transaction exempt (typically interstate intrafamilial) the FFL tries to select the hand gun from a 'pick list' in the DROS software.

All of the transfers that are exempt from the use of an FFL are also exempt from the Roster.

A PPT is also exempt from the Roster, via this chapter, https://leginfo.legislature.ca.gov/...ision=6.&title=4.&part=6.&chapter=5.&article= beginning with PC 28050.

In a PPT, the purchase is not from a dealer, it uses a dealer because 28050 says you must. Also, following 28050 is explicitly exempt from the roster:

32110.​

Article 4 (commencing with Section 31900) and Article 5 (commencing with Section 32000) shall not apply to any of the following:

(a) The sale, loan, or transfer of any firearm pursuant to Chapter 5 (commencing with Section 28050) of Division 6 in order to comply with Section 27545.​

 

[treelogger]

Thanks, very much appreciated, it's making sense now, so does anyone have a Sig P365 FCU for sale near the SF Bay Area LOL?

The correct way to ask that question is to use the WTB (wanted to buy) section of this fine discussion forum. But I fear the answer is going to be: They are rare and expensive in this state, because so few come in from other states. So patience and lots of cash may be the correct answer.

 

[ikeo1]

Thanks, very much appreciated, it's making sense now, so does anyone have a Sig P365 FCU for sale near the SF Bay Area LOL?

Please don't solicit sales in the forums... That's against the rules

 

[SSSLICKSSS]

Hello, I'm trying to purchase an off roster handgun from a private party seller and I just want to know some basic steps I should know in order not to get scammed.
I know that transfer needs to go through the FFL so does that mean I, as a buyer and the seller both need to meet up at FFL dealer shop and process the transfer/payment there?
How is seller going to get paid and when do I need to pay the seller or the FFL dealer?
I've never done a deal like this before and wanted to figure out some basic steps before I decide to do it in the future.

People won’t tell you this cause they don’t know but if it’s an off roster gun make sure it’s registered in CA first.

I promise you later on down the line you could run into some issues. Since it wasn’t properly imported from FFL to FFL out of state. Seen it happen couple times since I worked at gun store.

Anyone want to argue with me please feel free to message me so I can explain it.