Question about dros regarding new dealer inventory receivers; “rifle” vs. “other”

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

Other can be a slew of things that do not meet the Shoulder Fired Rifle category like a crew serve type build ....

Crew serve type build sound interesting; we talking about belt fed?

What about AOW? Pistol with a brace is not shoulder fired either?

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

Other can be a slew of things that do not meet the Shoulder Fired Rifle category like a crew serve type build ....

Can an 07 turn the other receiver into a pistol?

 

[BONECUTR]

Crew serve type build sound interesting; we talking about belt fed?

What about AOW? Pistol with a brace is not shoulder fired either?

Crew serve like something with say a spade grip.
AOW depends on the type and will require a $200 tax stamp to make one.

 

[BONECUTR]

Can an 07 turn the other receiver into a pistol?

An 07 can turn a "never DROS'd receiver" into a SSE pistol for transfer. Not something that was DROS'd as a longgun.....even as an other

 

[RickD427]

Crew serve type build sound interesting; we talking about belt fed?

What about AOW? Pistol with a brace is not shoulder fired either?

You gotta be careful with a crew served/belt fed type of build.

Prior to 2020, such builds did not fall under California's "Assault Weapon" statute because they did not fall under the definitions of "Rifle, Pistol, or Shotgun" as those terms were used in the statute. But in 2020, as a result of SB118, a new class of "Assault Weapons" was created which includes centerfire weapons that are not rifles, pistols, or shotguns and which include prohibited features. Here's the new class:

"A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that does not have a fixed magazine, but that has any one of the following:

(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.

(B) A thumbhole stock.

(C) A folding or telescoping stock.

(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.

(E) A flash suppressor.

(F) A forward pistol grip.

(G) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.

(H) A second handgrip.

(I) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.

(J) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

(10) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

(11) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has an overall length of less than 30 inches."

I can't think of a potentially feasible crew served weapon build that would not incorporate at least one of the above evil features.

Belt fed designs are highly problematic under both California's "Large Capacity Magazine" statute and the "Assault Weapon" statute. It's clear that the authors of the statute failed to consider belt-feeds when writing the statutes, but here's the result of what they wrote:

1) A "Large Capacity Magazine" is defined as one that requires disassembly of the action in order to REMOVE the magazine (the use of the word remove is quite notable in its distinction from the INSERTION of the magazine). The law also clearly defines the word "Magazine" in a way that includes ammunition belts (refer to Penal Code section 16740). A lot of folks have suggest that the law could be satisfied by altering the weapon such that the action had to be disassembled in order to load a belt, but that doesn't work. So long as the belt can be removed without disassembly, the law is violated. With a common "disintegrating belt" system, the belt is removed from the weapon by firing all of the rounds.

2) A "Large Capacity Magazine" is not one that holds more than 10 rounds. A "Large Capacity Magazine" is one that with the capacity to hold more than ten rounds. Those extra three words make a big difference. One could comply with the statute by using a fabric belt holding only ten rounds, but such belts have pretty much gone by the wayside in favor of disintegrating link belts. But if one were to make a 10 round disintegrating link belt, it would still have "the capacity" to hold more than 10 rounds simply by adding more links to the belt.

Note - As with my prior posting, I'm writing from my enforcement experience with California State statutes. I'm not well-versed in the NFA and will leave commentary regarding the NFA to folks with more experience in its content.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

You gotta be careful with a crew served/belt fed type of build.

Prior to 2020, such builds did not fall under California's "Assault Weapon" statute because they did not fall under the definitions of "Rifle, Pistol, or Shotgun" as those terms were used in the statute. But in 2020, as a result of SB118, a new class of "Assault Weapons" was created which includes centerfire weapons that are not rifles, pistols, or shotguns and which include prohibited features. Here's the new class:

"A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that does not have a fixed magazine, but that has any one of the following:

(A) A pistol grip that protrudes conspicuously beneath the action of the weapon.

(B) A thumbhole stock.

(C) A folding or telescoping stock.

(D) A grenade launcher or flare launcher.

(E) A flash suppressor.

(F) A forward pistol grip.

(G) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.

(H) A second handgrip.

(I) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.

(J) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

(10) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has a fixed magazine with the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

(11) A semiautomatic centerfire firearm that is not a rifle, pistol, or shotgun, that has an overall length of less than 30 inches."

I can't think of a potentially feasible crew served weapon build that would not incorporate at least one of the above evil features.

Belt fed designs are highly problematic under both California's "Large Capacity Magazine" statute and the "Assault Weapon" statute. It's clear that the authors of the statute failed to consider belt-feeds when writing the statutes, but here's the result of what they wrote:

1) A "Large Capacity Magazine" is defined as one that requires disassembly of the action in order to REMOVE the magazine (the use of the word remove is quite notable in its distinction from the INSERTION of the magazine). The law also clearly defines the word "Magazine" in a way that includes ammunition belts (refer to Penal Code section 16740). A lot of folks have suggest that the law could be satisfied by altering the weapon such that the action had to be disassembled in order to load a belt, but that doesn't work. So long as the belt can be removed without disassembly, the law is violated. With a common "disintegrating belt" system, the belt is removed from the weapon by firing all of the rounds.

2) A "Large Capacity Magazine" is not one that holds more than 10 rounds. A "Large Capacity Magazine" is one that with the capacity to hold more than ten rounds. Those extra three words make a big difference. One could comply with the statute by using a fabric belt holding only ten rounds, but such belts have pretty much gone by the wayside in favor of disintegrating link belts. But if one were to make a 10 round disintegrating link belt, it would still have "the capacity" to hold more than 10 rounds simply by adding more links to the belt.

Note - As with my prior posting, I'm writing from my enforcement experience with California State statutes. I'm not well-versed in the NFA and will leave commentary regarding the NFA to folks with more experience in its content.

man, you’re like old timer from calguns . Nice to see you over here.

Didn’t these new rules pop up around the same time the Franklin armory title 1 began to exist?

 

[RickD427]

man, you’re like old timer from calguns . Nice to see you over here.

Didn’t these new rules pop up around the same time the Franklin armory title 1 began to exist?

I'm trying to stay up on both sites, but Calguns hasn't been too well lately. I wish Kes the best, but I'm not sure about the prognosis.

The California legislature has always been trying to outsmart the smart folks that have been successful in finding creative "work-arounds" to their statutes. Franklin Armory is one of those folks and I have to think that they're partly the reason for SB118. But I also think the popularity of the semi-auto M2 and M1919 played a part. There was a bit of embarrassment in Sacramento when it became commonly understood that the semi-auto M2 was not an "Assault Weapon."

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

I'm trying to stay up on both sites, but Calguns hasn't been too well lately. I wish Kes the best, but I'm not sure about the prognosis.

The California legislature has always been trying to outsmart the smart folks that have been successful in finding creative "work-arounds" to their statutes. Franklin Armory is one of those folks and I have to think that they're partly the reason for SB118. But I also think the popularity of the semi-auto M2 and M1919 played a part. There was a bit of embarrassment in Sacramento when it became commonly understood that the semi-auto M2 was not an "Assault Weapon."

I’ve been on there once in awhile. It seems like it’s working again. Don’t need to wait until midnight to work or certain hours during the weekday.

So, besides crew serve build……can a lower dros as other for type of firearm but long gun for type of dealer transaction, be built as a AOW that is under 26 inches with a vertical grip; after paying for the tax stamp? Or is it only lowers originally dros as pistol that can go that route after paying for tax stamp?

 

[RickD427]

I’ve been on there once in awhile. It seems like it’s working again. Don’t need to wait until midnight to work or certain hours during the weekday.

So, besides crew serve build……can a lower dros as other for type of firearm but long gun for type of dealer transaction, be built as a AOW that is under 26 inches with a vertical grip; after paying for the tax stamp? Or is it only lowers originally dros as pistol that can go that route after paying for tax stamp?

I don't have a good answer. I've never closely studied the NFA. I only have a minimal working knowledge of it. I've done a bunch of California State cases, but never one under the NFA. I'll have to defer to one of our NFA experts.

 

[e6n5j8o8i]

IANAL or FFL and hopefully not muddying the waters. But my understanding like others have mentioned is any new, stripped receiver purchased here will be entered as a rifle in most places. Some places offer SSE and will DROS it that way.

When I've seen "other" is in the case of a PPT, and the seller is from out of state and brought it in, and hasn't yet updated the DROS. They can do the paperwork then to either change to a rifle or semi-automatic pistol. Once it's DROS'd as a rifle, there's no going back.

So, only options I've seen for purchase here for an AR pistol lower are either through an FFL as a SSE, or PPT from someone who registered it as a semi auto pistol once they moved into CA, or you were able to catch them before they've registered, it's still listed as "other", and they will change it to semi auto when you transfer (or they've already changed it to semi auto pistol).

I also believe that an AR pistol can only be built as a fixed mag system, and not featureless.

I'm going through this at the moment too and the laws are a little tricky to understand, but this is my current understanding/interpretation.

Additional $0.02 - if you purchase an upper/barrel less than 16" and don't yet have an AR pistol lower, but happen to also have possession of an AR otherwise, you open yourself up to some language that says you technically have the parts needed to create an SBR (short upper assembly + your existing AR parts), so tread lightly.

 

[cali_jazz]

I’ve been on there once in awhile. It seems like it’s working again. Don’t need to wait until midnight to work or certain hours during the weekday.

So, besides crew serve build……can a lower dros as other for type of firearm but long gun for type of dealer transaction, be built as a AOW that is under 26 inches with a vertical grip; after paying for the tax stamp? Or is it only lowers originally dros as pistol that can go that route after paying for tax stamp?

Only firearms DROS'd as pistol (handgun) under 26" can be AOW's.

Otherwise it's an SBR if it has a stock, under 30" OAL or barrel under 16", or "Other" for everything else.

Federal Tax stamp is free after Wednesday. If you have any draft eForm drafts not submitted and certified they will be deleted by the ATF and must be started from scratch starting January 1st.