Shipping Rifles from California to Out-of-State Buyers

[DuckDawg22]

Do you want to know the law or what the CA DOJ seems to care about?

I sold a so-called a-salt weapon and I shipped it through a dealer with all the required permits due to the CA law regarding limits of shipping such EVIL(tm) weapons. In talking to the CA DOJ later it seemed that they really didn't care if the firearm was being shipped out of CA, even though the law says otherwise.

My personal suggestion is to try to see if you can make arrangements to ship all the firearms at the same time and make a drive to NV to do so. It isn't worth the cost or risk to ship from CA. This applies only to the so-called a-salt weapons.

Common carriers, such as UPS and FedEx have made changes in regards to shipping firearms, basically making it harder to impossible to use them, even for dealers. Long guns can be shipped USPS. Handguns can only be shipped USPS by a dealer, although there are very limited exceptions, most would never apply to the average person.

This is total fudlore. I've shipped three handguns to CA FFLs via Shipmygun UPS 2nd day air in the past few months. Dropped off at my local UPS Store, no questions asked. Of course, I didn't tell them what it was but since there was already a label I didn't have to.

One long gun went out of state, shipped in a Plano case via UPS ground, again no questions asked.

 

[DuckDawg22]

Thanks for the helpful discussion and input. I’ve learned a lot here.

My question comes down to this: If I use a shipping label provided by ShipMyGuns.com, can I drop off the package at a regular UPS Store or USPS location? Will they accept it?

If anyone has had a similar experience recently, I would appreciate hearing about it.

the SMG label will be UPS, so there's your answer.

 

[kemasa]

California's Assault Weapon's statute does not include a "Constructive Possession" clause, even though the Orange County D.A. did secure a conviction, later upheld in a published decision for "Attempted Possession of an AW" in People v Nguyen.

Penal Code sections 30600 and 30605 only apply to "Assault Weapons" They have no application to a Registered Assault Weapon that is not currently configured as an Assault Weapon. Read the elements of both statutes. They make absolutely no provision for "Registered" Assault Weapons.

Why are you referencing PC 30945? It's not a chargeable violation.

You made continual references to a weapon being registered as an Assault Weapon, but have consistently failed to cite any statutes giving relevance to the issue. How long are you going to dodge the challenge to provide any statutory, or published case law, references to support your positions?

You can look up the case law yourself. I don't have to spoon feed you. You are giving legal advice as a non-attorney, which is an issue.

Quite funny, which shows that you don't understand, you say that the statute doesn't include a constructive possession clause and then ADMIT that a conviction was secured. That should tell you something, namely that you don't understand since under your claim such a conviction could not occur.

I don't think that you understand what it can mean that the firearm is REGISTERED as an assault weapon. You seem to think that it is meaningless and that taking it apart can just void it. So where is the case law which backs your view? You demand that I provide you things, well, instead you should do as you demand.

 

[kemasa]

This is total fudlore. I've shipped three handguns to CA FFLs via Shipmygun UPS 2nd day air in the past few months. Dropped off at my local UPS Store, no questions asked. Of course, I didn't tell them what it was but since there was already a label I didn't have to.

How funny, because you didn't get caught, you think that there is no issue. I guess one could say that speeding is legal because just look out on the roads and see how many people are speeding and not getting pulled over.

While you want to make a foolish attack, it isn't fudlore. I mentioned the issues, which it seems that you want to ignore and everything I said was true. I have heard of cases in which a firearm was discovered and UPS said that they intended to destroy it.

The simple fact is that the UPS Store isn't UPS, that is a FACT, it would be exactly the same as if you use any other such shipping store, other than FedEx Office as that is actually FedEx. I mentioned an issue that I had to deal with which I learned that if UPS never received the package that the insurance wouldn't cover it, that was directly from UPS Corp. I had a pre-printed label as well. UPS policy states that firearms can not be shipped through a UPS Store. The store isn't a common carrier, which could make a difference.

Yes, you got away with it and you didn't have any problems, but that is meaningless and doesn't mean in the least that the same will occur in the future. It would be the same as if you shipped illegal to ship items. It only matters if you get caught.

Due to my knowledge regarding the UPS Store and UPS, I would only ship through the UPS Store if I paid them directly for the shipping so as to basically create a contract with them, rather than just their doing a favor by taking a UPS package in which they get nothing for doing so.

 

[DuckDawg22]

Again, more fudlore. My contract is with Shipmygun, I pay them for an FFL verification, insurance of my choice, and shipping label. They have the contract with UPS. While you're right that it is best practice to drop off at a UPS corporate location, those aren't everywhere and the reality of UPS Stores is that, as long as the box is packaged properly and a label is attached, they put it on the pile with everything else. Once the truck picks it up, it's no different than had you dropped it at a UPS corp counter. So congrats on your keyboard lawyerism but I will continue to shoot you down with real-world firearm shipping info.

 

[smoothy8500]

I don't understand the drama. With a UPS prepaid label, wouldn't scheduling a UPS driver pickup be the smartest, safest method to ensure direct hand-off and avoiding the UPS Store dilemma?

 

[kemasa]

Again, more fudlore. My contract is with Shipmygun, I pay them for an FFL verification, insurance of my choice, and shipping label. They have the contract with UPS. While you're right that it is best practice to drop off at a UPS corporate location, those aren't everywhere and the reality of UPS Stores is that, as long as the box is packaged properly and a label is attached, they put it on the pile with everything else. Once the truck picks it up, it's no different than had you dropped it at a UPS corp counter. So congrats on your keyboard lawyerism but I will continue to shoot you down with real-world firearm shipping info.

Nope, no fudlore, that is just a false claim by you. Pathetic.

What does paying SMG have to do with the UPS Store and UPS?

What is the UPS agreement with respect to SMG? Do they actually allow anyone, anywhere to ship a firearm due to that which violates their stated policy? I don't know the answer to that, but neither to you.

How does that change the fact that if the UPS Store doesn't manage to get the package to UPS that you are SOL?

How does that change that doing that violates UPS shipping policy?

What can UPS do when their shipping policy is violated?

One key statement you make, which you gloss over, is "Once the truck picks it up". That is a very important aspect since you falsely ASSUME that will occur and give absolutely NO consideration to what it means if it doesn't.

Also, you are ignoring the aspect as to what happens if/when UPS discovers that the shipment contains a firearm in violation of their shipping policies.

You are not providing ANY real world shipping information, you are instead providing garbage and think that it actually means something, as well as ignoring reality. The problem is that you are taking a risk and you don't even know what it is. As they say, you can lead a horse to water, but you can't make it drink. I have provided the fact that the UPS Store isn't UPS and what that means, which you just either deny or ignore, which is your choice, but others reading this should understand what the situation is AND what the risks are. Often you MIGHT get away with it and that is great, but how about the time that you don't? A person reported that UPS discovered that they had shipped a firearm the way you described and is refusing to deliver it and further stating they intend to have it destroyed. What you are missing is that the person who "shipped" it has no contract or agreement with UPS as they paid a third party, who perhaps sold the person UPS insurance, so what if UPS refuses to pay? It is the third party who paid for the shipping and that is who would need to fight it. Do you think that they will? Quite the risk, quite the keyboard lawyer yourself.

 

[kemasa]

I don't understand the drama. With a UPS prepaid label, wouldn't scheduling a UPS driver pickup be the smartest, safest method to ensure direct hand-off and avoiding the UPS Store dilemma?

Yes, quite so, but if you notice "smart" isn't always a word that is associated with many people. Based on my experience I avoid the UPS Store unless I am paying them directly for shipping.

The other aspect to consider is shipping in violation of the company's shipping policy, that is a big unknown as to what that can mean.

 

[DuckDawg22]

my evidence is 4 completed deliveries while you've "heard" about instances where guns have been intercepted. I've "heard" that if my aunt had a she'd be my uncle. The only thing these companies care about is that you pay for accurate dimensions and weight. They don't give a rats ass what's in it. Funny thing is, the first gun I sold and shipped via SMG, I dropped off at my FFL to have his UPS guy take. It sat there for a week as I guess they don't get as frequent service as they used to. Owner himself dropped it off at the UPS store for me, so all ensuing shipments have gone there directly.

I would never ship anything firearm related via USPS as your earlier post suggested. I don't care if it's a charging handle. But I get it, you did the work to get your FFL and that's great, play it on the safe side. I think it's disingenuous to act out in such a manner against legal options available to us commoners

 

[kemasa]

my evidence is 4 completed deliveries while you've "heard" about instances where guns have been intercepted. I've "heard" that if my aunt had a she'd be my uncle. The only thing these companies care about is that you pay for accurate dimensions and weight. They don't give a rats ass what's in it.

I would never ship anything firearm related via USPS as your earlier post suggested. I don't care if it's a charging handle

That is oh so funny. Your evidence? 4 examples of your shipping? Out of how many total packages that have been shipped? That is rich, just because you have not had any shipping problems you are trying to claim that NO ONE has ever had a shipping problem. So if I say that I sped 10 times on the road I can claim that there is never a problem with speeding, right? The problem is that you are actually serious when you are attempting to make such claims and that is just pure insanity.

You actively choose to ignore people who have had problems and respond with a stupid comment about your aunt being your uncle, really?

Nice bogus claim. Please provide proof that they don't care what is in the package. That is just a flat out lie. They might not always notice, but when they do, they care.

Next, do a search regarding UPS shipping issues with respect to firearms.

You can choose to violate shipping policy and take the risk, but others needs to understand the risk that they are taking.

 

[DuckDawg22]

That is oh so funny. Your evidence? 4 examples of your shipping? Out of how many total packages that have been shipped? That is rich, just because you have not had any shipping problems you are trying to claim that NO ONE has ever had a shipping problem. So if I say that I sped 10 times on the road I can claim that there is never a problem with speeding, right? The problem is that you are actually serious when you are attempting to make such claims and that is just pure insanity.

You actively choose to ignore people who have had problems and respond with a stupid comment about your aunt being your uncle, really?

Nice bogus claim. Please provide proof that they don't care what is in the package. That is just a flat out lie. They might not always notice, but when they do, they care.

Next, do a search regarding UPS shipping issues with respect to firearms.

You can choose to violate shipping policy and take the risk, but others needs to understand the risk that they are taking.

I will die on the hill that as long as a package has accurate dimensions and weight, doesn't smell like drugs or contain radioactive material, the odds of that package being pulled out of circulation are about the same as Californians getting suppressors

 

[kemasa]

This might seem off-topic, but it really isn't as it is to prove a point. That point is that it seems that many people here think that the laws are far more simple than it really is. You can talk to an attorney and get an OPINION, which is just that, but the only opinions that really matters is that of the judges from the first court to the SC and even if you win, you can lose as it costs a lot of money. It is pretty easy to say what is illegal, but sadly it is harder to say what is legal, that is just reality.

This question is far more simple than the main discussion, so let's see if you can actually get such a simple answer correct. The answer should be obvious, but my guess is that most people will get it wrong.

There is a video about a guy getting pulled over for having yellow headlamps on his vehicle. He is rather upset and says that he previously received a ticket and got it dismissed. The second officer says it is illegal and vaguely references some federal violation saying that it isn't illegal. That officer ends up just warning him as it appeared that he really just didn't want to deal with it. It appears that the first ticket was for CVC 25950.

So the simple question is it illegal to have yellow headlamps in CA? Officer Bob should be able to quickly answer this question.

Was the first officer correct in that it is illegal? Perhaps that officer wrote the citation for the wrong offense?

Does the fact that the driver had the previous ticket prove that yellow headlamps are legal in CA?

Was the second officer correct that yellow headlamps are illegal in CA due to some federal violation?

If the law is as simple as you think it is, this should be an easy question to answer. I will wait to give you the actual answer so as to not ruin the fun.

If you can't properly answer this simple legal question, what makes you think that you can actually answer far more complicated questions?

For the lazy, CA 25950 states, in part, "(a) The emitted light from all lamps and the reflected light from all reflectors, visible from in front of a vehicle, shall be white or yellow, except as follows:" and none of the following has any limits or restrictions in regards to headlamps.

 

[kemasa]

I will die on the hill that as long as a package has accurate dimensions and weight, doesn't smell like drugs or contain radioactive material, the odds of that package being pulled out of circulation are about the same as Californians getting suppressors

Yet there are people who have had problems, so they odds are not what you claim

You have refused to answer my questions, why? Because you can't without admitting that you are wrong.

It is a stupid hill to die on, but that is your choice, just don't promote others dying on that hill along with you.

 

[DuckDawg22]

People having problems is irrelevant without knowing how many shipments were successful. Were they accurately packed or did they try to save a few bucks and cheat the weight? UPS handles ~20 million packages a day in the US alone. We'll never know but I'd bet the percentage is well less than .5% and those are odds I'll take any day of the week. If you have evidence that the number is higher, I'd love to see it.

 

[kemasa]

People having problems is irrelevant without knowing how many shipments were successful. I'd bet the percentage is well less than .5% and those are odds I'll take any day of the week.

Who cares if it is one in a million if you are the one?

Yes, you are free to take a chance, but it is best to know that you are in fact taking a chance, that it isn't 100%, as well you shouldn't attempt to try to convince others that they are not taking a chance.

Still didn't answer my questions.

 

[kemasa]

Guess what? What I read was actually posted on here. The problem that never occurs, yet did and is discussed is easy to read.

Only ship FFL to FFL! Shipping a gun through pirateship or just making a label at your own risk