Thoughts on 1911s vs. 2011s in California

[jesse]

2011s definitely just use your freedom week mags that you bought back then. There’s alot of options for 2011s via sse

 

[JackRydden224]

I’m thinking about getting an accurized, full size 1911 in 9mm. Obviously, 45 ACP is God’s caliber…two world wars…Boomers gonna boom, etc. But, 45 ACP is so dang expensive, and I really just want an SAO autoloader to practice OG one-hand bullseye shooting.

When I went to a few LGS to browse, multiple Gen Z sales guys told me, “if you’re into 9mm 1911s, you should consider a 2011 instead.” GunTube tells me a double stack +1 in 2011s versus 7 to 8+1 in 1911s (or 8 to 9+1 with 9mm) is the main advantage. But I don’t really see the point when I’m limited to 10+1 anyway.

What’re everyone’s thoughts on the pros and cons 2011s versus 1911s, specifically in California given roster and capacity limitations?

For fun at the range or even just doing drills I think 9mm 1911 with 10 round mags would be just fine. They are a pleasure to shoot.

 

[bcj68]

Between B&H and Cylinder and Slide for springs/trigger components, a match barrel, and some Novak/Heinie you can have 90-95% of a well tuned 1911. At that point, both guns shoot better than nearly every person shooting them.

I bought an FEG with a terrible trigger off of here, like 8-9lbs and gritty. I replaced the main spring and recoil spring with some B&H springs, and installed a C&S hammer and sear. It's down to about a 2.5lb glass break trigger, but the OG sights are bent so whatever I point it at is pretty safe at 20 yards. If I get it cut for some better sights, I'll add some more goodies to it. B&H also sells a two stage recoil spring setup, an improved trigger mechanism closer to JMB's original design, and match barrels. I've seen a few of the SA-35s pop up on here for about twice MSRP, but they're still a decent deal vs doing all that work on one of the other clones or an FN. The only thing the SA-35s are really missing are the match barrel, and the B&H improved trigger is still a little nicer. If you've really got some money to throw at it, C&S does some nice custom work, but they did recently change hands.

I've thought about getting an EMP, next time I see a 4" EMP pop up for less than a grand, I'll get it. XL gloves fit snug, so honestly a Commander feels as small as I would want a gun to be. If I don't like it, my wife or kids will at least be able to shoot it. I don't have a CCW, but if I do eventually get one, it would just be to have one in the car when sensible, or in the kit out in the woods/desert, and most of the time that'll be a Gov. in God's caliber.

As far as the 2011s, for that price I'd rather a Wilson, an on the cheaper end with the upcoming Kimber, I'd still rather a Dan Wesson or Baer 1911. Fudd or not, I think making a better pistol has been a fools errand for roughly 115 years.

Would this be a viable option for the Girsan Hi Power clone?

 

[nartnailuj]

if you’re limited to 10 rounds , then a 1911 works fine. On that note, I can’t wait for my first 2011 to get out of gun jail

 

[ar15robert]

I like 1911 in 45 had the urge to get a 2011 but looked at them locally just didn’t like the feel in my hand. Looked at the single stack 1911 in 9mm felt great for me.

 

[KrizB]

Luv me 1911 and .45 but understand the cost thing.
If you ever see a cheap/used Rock Island 1911 GI in .38 super, consider getting it and converting it to 9mm.
I did that and for me it was really easy, just take out the ramped .38 barrel and install a RIA ramped 9mm barrel.
It looks and feels every bit like my 1911's in .45 but is cheaper to feed and softer shooting.
A big downside are the small milspec sights, they can be hard for some eyeballs to see, adding bright paint to the front does help a little though.

 

[peahi2]

Was looking to replenish the 45 ACP inventory...yikes.. I love shooting 45 ACP the economics are no bueno.
The CA roster 1911s are loaded target and Kimber. Meh.
You'll have to spend some money for a 2011 but it's well worth it (to me). You can go single shot exemption for some $$$, or go for the like of the platypus or staccatos.

I know Stacatto is on the hot seat right now, but I really like their guns.

 

[dvoncock]

With Wilson Combat 9mm 1911 magazines you have the max 10rd capacity as every other gun in California, but if you’re thinking of spending up to 3k on a 1911, wait for a good used one. The used market has a lot of good deals right now if you’re patient.

That’s more or less what I’m doing. A couple good ones popped up on the classifieds, but I have a few more pressing things to spend my money on than a new range toy at the moment.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Was looking to replenish the 45 ACP inventory...yikes.. I love shooting 45 ACP the economics are no bueno.
The CA roster 1911s are loaded target and Kimber. Meh.
You'll have to spend some money for a 2011 but it's well worth it (to me). You can go single shot exemption for some $$$, or go for the like of the platypus or staccatos.

I know Stacatto is on the hot seat right now, but I really like their guns.

Yeah, i’m breaking in my p220 and it’s painful in the pocket book.

 

[WWJMBD]

Yeah, i’m breaking in my p220 and it’s painful in the pocket book.

I'm of two minds on that. One says primarily shoot the 9mm Commander, and only pull out the 45 on occasion. The other says get a reloading press and a 24lb spring and Shok Buff for the 45 Gov.

 

[Darqhelmet]

I'm of two minds on that. One says primarily shoot the 9mm Commander, and only pull out the 45 on occasion. The other says get a reloading press and a 24lb spring and Shok Buff for the 45 Gov.

I get it, reloading and I do not get along though. And god it would take such a long time to break even with the cost of everything right now.

 

[FCRII]

Depends on the use for me, have a lot of love for both. 2011s are just...different, they give me a tingling feeling inside. The cost of .45 pushes me away from shooting my 1911s as much as my 2011s.

 

[dvoncock]

I hit up four spots this weekend to check out 1911s and 2011. Several semi-custom(?) 2011s definitely impressed me. In particular, I was floored by one setup for smaller hands. I think it was built for one the employees, and I thought it was super-cool of them then to me handle it. I’m pretty sure that setup comes in around $5k, based on options they showed me from the catalog. In terms of price, there really doesn’t seem to be as many mid-tier offerings, compared to 1911. I guess that’s why there’s so much demand for the GT4/5?

 

[RustVendor]

I hit up four spots this weekend to check out 1911s and 2011. Several semi-custom(?) 2011s definitely impressed me. In particular, I was floored by one setup for smaller hands. I think it was built for one the employees, and I thought it was super-cool of them then to me handle it. I’m pretty sure that setup comes in around $5k, based on options they showed me from the catalog. In terms of price, there really doesn’t seem to be as many mid-tier offerings, compared to 1911. I guess that’s why there’s so much demand for the GT4/5?

There's essentially zero mid and under tier offerings in CA for 2011s so the Kimber and P211 are definitely filling a void. I actually want the prodigy more than any of them on the roster because they are a much cheaper gun to do a project with than the others.

 

[Hindsight]

There's essentially zero mid and under tier offerings in CA for 2011s so the Kimber and P211 are definitely filling a void. I actually want the prodigy more than any of them on the roster because they are a much cheaper gun to do a project with than the others.

That kind of depends on where you define the top end to be and where the mid tier starts/ends. While true that there aren’t many on roster options, there are quite a few, what I’d consider mid tier, options via SSE. One of which is RCD which provides some pretty massive value per dollar compared to other higher end 2011s.

For reference, I’m defining the top of the high end would be high end semi customs like infinity, Rafferty, and venom, and full custom world class builders like EMG, Charyn, Mercier, Chambers, and a few others. I guess the starting point of high end would be around the Atlas level but that’s debatable and flexible.

 

[RustVendor]

That kind of depends on where you define the top end to be and where the mid tier starts/ends. While true that there aren’t many on roster options, there are quite a few, what I’d consider mid tier, options via SSE. One of which is RCD which provides some pretty massive value per dollar compared to other higher end 2011s.

For reference, I’m defining the top of the high end would be high end semi customs like infinity, Rafferty, and venom, and full custom world class builders like EMG, Charyn, Mercier, Chambers, and a few others. I guess the starting point of high end would be around the Atlas level but that’s debatable and flexible.

the RCD is really the only one though, I don't really count the fusions . I would also say that the functional mid tier outside of CA is more like 1500-2000, we will be getting a few of those but somehow a gun like the 2k11 target which sells for 1900 outside of CA is instead a 2800 dollar one plus 20% tax of course.

 

[Hindsight]

the RCD is really the only one though, I don't really count the fusions . I would also say that the functional mid tier outside of CA is more like 1500-2000, we will be getting a few of those but somehow a gun like the 2k11 target which sells for 1900 outside of CA is instead a 2800 dollar one plus 20% tax of course.

That’s a pretty low range, in my opinion, for the mid tier. As, presumably, anything above that point is high tier no? What does the “functional” qualifier mean?

In a world where the high tier goes for $7k+ and tops out around $15k+, I think that has a trickle down effect on where the rest of the tiers fall.

 

[RustVendor]

That’s a pretty low range, in my opinion, for the mid tier. As, presumably, anything above that point is high tier no? What does the “functional” qualifier mean?

In a world where the high tier goes for $7k+ and tops out around $15k+, I think that has a trickle down effect on where the rest of the tiers fall.

I don't think the fact that there are 15k guns makes any difference to what's "mid tier" because those guns are just for clowns that want to overspend on luxury items. There's budget 2011s for 500 dollars up to prodigies for like 1200 and then guns that are functionally more put together and reliable for 1500-2000 which includes the 2k11s and p211. The RCD core is kind of in it's own class because it has the same parts as a 5k gun but with less time and care in finishing but there's nothing else like it at that price. The tiers to me has more to do with what's actually in the pistol and how it functions vs the price comparison to luxury items. The mid teir is a production gun with minor fitting that functions within 5-10% of a full custom, it's where the cliff of diminishing returns falls off very quickly and you will see very little performance gain to spend more.

 

[dvoncock]

In terms of tiers, I guess I was thinking more about price, which may or may not equate to quality, but definitely reflects obtainability for the average guy.

With 1911s, we’re spoiled with choice at all price points, even in California. Tisas and Rock Island provide great value by making perfectly serviceable, entry level products in the $500 to $1k range. Then, Springfield, Kimber, Sig, and others make excellent mid-range 1911s in the $1k to $2k range. There’re even premium “semi-custom” options, like Dan Wesson, in the under $3k range. (All prices reflect ~20% tax, unfortunately.)

But when it comes to 2011s, it seems hard (impossible?) to find anything with a starting MSRP under $2k to $3k. That, frankly, surprised me.

 

[Hindsight]

I don't think the fact that there are 15k guns makes any difference to what's "mid tier" because those guns are just for clowns that want to overspend on luxury items. There's budget 2011s for 500 dollars up to prodigies for like 1200 and then guns that are functionally more put together and reliable for 1500-2000 which includes the 2k11s and p211. The RCD core is kind of in it's own class because it has the same parts as a 5k gun but with less time and care in finishing but there's nothing else like it at that price. The tiers to me has more to do with what's actually in the pistol and how it functions vs the price comparison to luxury items. The mid teir is a production gun with minor fitting that functions within 5-10% of a full custom, it's where the cliff of diminishing returns falls off very quickly and you will see very little performance gain to spend more.

Fair. I think the wider 2011 space has established/has a broad agreement and understanding that the mid tier is pretty large and somewhat undefined, but is generally understood to be around the below Atlas level in terms of quality, fitment, and price.

So, stuff like cosaint, Akai, Alpha American, accuracy X, CNC, etc. and the list goes on and on. Many of those which are available in CA new.

And the $15k is a weird one because that’s not just random TTI stuff or something, it’s titanium infinities (I think they’re the only company making 2011s out of titanium and they also make pretty much every single part down to the springs from barstock themselves in house), Rafferty’s/Venom’s new starting price, what you can get up to with full customs from the top builders that are hand fitting quality sourced parts for your custom build. That covers a pretty wide range of stuff that’s all top tier performance wise, but obviously an infinity isn’t going to be fit as well, have as tight tolerances, be as accurate, or have as long of a round count as stuff that’s built to marvel spec.