Weird Experience at Gun Counter today or not...?

[Deleted member 2036]

So many wrong answers here. You can buy a bona fide gift. That is completely legal and is addressed on the 4473, and you would still mark YES in the first question. CA acknowledges legitimate gifts especially between family members. CA used to be communal property (still technically is) but with SB2 requiring firearms registered to yourself especially if she will carry later then it should be under her name.

Next time, ask before you disassemble. If it is important for you to disassemble and they refuse, explain to them why you want to. If they still refuse, go elsewhere.
As for the staffer freaking out, that is bad training and typical of gun counter staff. "Straw purchases" refers to buying with intent to give to a prohibited person, as in someone very likely listed in California Armed and Prohibited Persons System (APPS). You cannot expect near min wage employees to be SMEs in this field. Even their bosses aren't SMEs unless they're the personalities to care about what they're doing.

Once you own the firearm, you do not "need" to PPT it to your wife. Sign up for a California Firearms Application Reporting System (CFARS) account and transfer it to her via the "Report of Operation of Law" and select "Transmutation of Property BTWN Spouses" in the "How Obtained" field.

She will need an FSC or exemption such as CCW to enter, and will need to upload a photo of her DL. If it's not a REAL ID or contains name variations, she'll need to submit proof.

The fee is $19 vs the $47.19 normally charged at the dealer for background and service fee per firearm. Give it about 2-3 weeks and DOJ BOF will snail mail you a letter confirming entry into AFS. The gun is registered to your wife at this point.

California Firearms Application Reporting System (CFARS)

California Firearms Application Reporting System (CFARS)

cfars.doj.ca.gov

Both you and your wife should have individual accounts for future needs but this transaction would be performed under her account as the transferee.

Also, side bar: In my experience it is not correct for one to buy a spouse a firearm if they do not know if the firearm fits the spouse. It is better to bring the spouse in for the spouse to be part of the selection process and validate ergos, fit, function ability, etc. I'm just glad you didn't get her a pink lady smith like all the other square gentlemen do for their wives. Yes, lets put the tiniest and lightest revolver with heaviest DA pull on the market meant for CCW as the primary defense pistol for the newbie gun owner. LOL

Feel free to reach out if you have any questions. I really really hate dealers that make things more difficult for consumers. I hope that this helps.

 

[Deleted member 2036]

If it was a new gun yes that was wrong. They're all test fired, any problem or defect would be handled by the manufacturer, field stripping reveals little
more than with the slide locked back and they don't want to be left with the bill if you damage or lose something as until you pay, the firearm is still theirs.
Other customers see this and then think that's acceptable behavior, while others might not want to be buying from a store that lets random people take
apart the firearms. If it was a used gun still wrong cause you didn't ask if it was allowed for you to do so beforehand. Lastly the formatting of the original
post is super weird and needs a lot of work which is why i copied the style so it will be super annoying for you to read and make your hair turn grey and fall out.

Naw, I have personally seen a LOT of bad guns (bad everything) get to the counter. Things like bad RSAs, excessive marring, or stuck plungers cannot be seen unless disassembled. Many Sigs came in with bad MDCs jamming up the guns during the first chamber clearing. It's perfectly acceptable inspect something you're buying.

 

[Deleted member 2036]

Ok you're throwing up a lot of red flags ....

If you buy a car the last thing the sales associate wants you to do is to start wrenching on it. Cause you may damage or break it. The same applies to firearms. Furthermore you did not ask permission before doing so. Also what are you checking for? If you can articulate a specific reason to check the internals the store clerk may work with you but "its a display gun" makes you look weird. Especially since you're detail stripping it.

For the second thing you can no longer buy a firearm as a gift or with the intent to transfer to another person. Your wife will need to get her FSC and go to the store to fill out paperwork. It used to be common for husbands and wives to do this but now with new regulations and new questions on the 4473 this has become illegal.

Odd. ATF 4473 instructions disagree:

Question 21.a. Actual Transferee/Buyer:
For purposes of this form, a person is the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is purchasing the firearm for him/herself or otherwise acquiring the firearm for him/herself. (e.g., redeeming the firearm from pawn, retrieving it from consignment, firearm raffle winner). A person is also the actual transferee/buyer if he/she is legitimately purchasing the firearm as a bona fide gift for a third party. A gift is not bona fide if another person offered or gave the person completing this form money, service(s), or item(s) of value to acquire the firearm for him/her, or if the other person is prohibited by law from receiving or possessing the firearm.

EXAMPLES: Mr. Smith asks Mr. Jones to purchase a firearm for Mr. Smith (who may or may not be prohibited). Mr. Smith gives Mr. Jones the money for the firearm. Mr. Jones is NOT THE ACTUAL TRANSFEREE/BUYER of the firearm and must answer “no” to question 21.a. The licensee may not transfer the firearm to Mr. Jones. However, if Mr. Brown buys the firearm with his own money to give to Mr. Black as a gift (with no service or tangible thing of value provided by Mr. Black), ATF Form 4473 (5300.9) Revised August 2023 Mr. Brown is the actual transferee/buyer of the firearm and should answer “yes” to question 21.a. However, the transferor/seller may not transfer a firearm to any person he/she knows or has reasonable cause to believe is prohibited under 18 U.S.C. § 922(g), (h), , or (x).

 

[Deleted member 2036]

Yes you were unfortunately in the wrong for that. California law states that you cannot purchase a firearm WITH the intent to sell whether its your wife or not. That would be an automatic cancel of sale. Next time you go in to a shop just dont say anything at all. The less you say the better you'll be. Also ask the salesman if you can take the firearm down before you do so

Where was the intent to sell? It was a gift for his wife.

 

[Deleted member 2036]

I would say everything happened as it should

Every FFL is on the lookout for straw purchases as the ATF loves to go after those doing it and the heavy penalties involved. Sounds like the manager was just trying to get the feel for who you really are and what your true intentions where. I think those who would be caught in your situation that actually intended on doing a straw purchases would hesitate, stammer and possibly leave before answering any more questions. Sounds like you passed the test and the manager informed you on a better way to legally state your intentions

As for breaking down the gun. I think it's courteous to ask first as some don't allow it. Some are ok. It's hard to tell what or why you want to take one apart. For all they know you are trying to steal a part of of it. But asking first usual puts them at ease

Best answer I've read. I would add that although normal for rookie gun counter employees to freak out, it is inappropriate and unprofessional. They should be trained to ask for clarification understanding that bona fide gifts are completely legal let alone what the definition of a "straw purchase" actually is and how the powers that be treat it.

 

[M_N04H]

This may sound weird, but even just to dry fire the gun before buying, I always ask if that is ok to do. So personally, I would have definitely asked if it was ok to field strip the thing. It isn't yours yet.