When buying a gun from a member how do I check if the gun works before paying for it?

[BigBlaze]

There was a real long back and forth between FFL on calguns back in the day when the state tax board sent out its instructions to dealers on them being responsible for collecting tax on transactions they process. It was more about ship in transfers but was very vague so many dealers don't want to see money exchange hands as then they "might" be responsible to collect tax on the transaction.

Just don't make the cash handover super obvious in front of the dealer.

PPT's are exempt from taxes.

 

[BONECUTR]

PPT's are exempt from taxes.

If the FFL is not involved in the transaction. Even the state tax site says:

• The seller and purchaser have negotiated the terms of sale in advance,

Meaning if you come in the store and start envolving the dealer in the transacation. Like "Do you think $500 is a good price for me to sell this to him" Now the FFL could be involved in the sale and might need to collect tax.

See https://cdtfa.ca.gov/industry/sellers-of-firearm-and-ammunition-products/industry-topics.htm

Again my input is more dealers are still going off the older BOE memo to dealers that really hammered in the. Don't be involved in the transaction other than processing the paperwork. If I can find it ill post it... I don't remember the verbiage but it was very vague and scared a lot of dealers.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

It’s interesting how strident and opinionated people are on this subject in this thread and other threads like this. I’ve done A LOT of PPTs both ways over the years and other than the occasional flake never had an issue. I will amend that. I re assembled a 1911 wrong and it jammed during inspection and the buyer bailed. that's pretty much the only issue. If the seller wants money before paper work then inspection before. Whatever. Literally never had an issue once someone actually shows up. But it seems like there’s a lot of mistrust on this thread. just an observation. I did state that generally I dont pass funds until paper work is in process or done, but again, generally and honestly it's not a "deliberate" process it just sorta works out that way. again, just generally never had an issue. maybe I've just been lucky and naive, but I dont feel like most people doing this are out there trying to cheat each other. seems like lots of paranoia.

Trust, but verify. Being a skeptic is a function of being smart, which is not the same as paranoia. It's true that most people are good and honest, but some are not and they hide under the assumption of integrity and goodwill. This is why it's good to talk to a buyer or seller before meeting up to get a "read" on them. Bad actors will have bad logic, weird justifications, possibly poor comms, and may not even want to be on this site officially. An astute buyer (or seller) can spot the deception, even if they ignore some red flags along the way.

The worst communicator I dealt with never left feedback after I bought his gun, even after some gentle reminders. I almost bowed out of that sale because the guy was taking forever to respond. He was also weirdly hostile about California and was getting ready to move out of state.

I've got about 10 transactions under my belt (8 reported here as feedback) and had an issue with one of my purchases;

One guy sold me a CZ TS2 Base Model (Blue) dressed up with green grips/trigger and sold as a rarer TS2 Green (middle model) for more than the base model would have cost, but it didn't have the TS2 Green gas pedal. I checked the serial number before the purchase and it came back as a TS2, but I didn't know that it *should* have come back as a TS2 Green if it were actually that model. I found out later from CZ about this, and really I should have checked a random TS2 Green or Orange online to see what came back. Now I know.

It also had a stripped set screw under the rear sight, so the rear sight could not be removed without some serious effort from a local gunsmith. This was undisclosed. Really, it was a nice TS2 so there was no need to lie, and it shot well. Sadly, the seller chose a gawd-awful OD Green color (custom choice from CZ) and it looks absolutely horrific with the green grips. I went to go get it Cerakoted black at a local shop and the Cerakote guy bought it from me on the spot.

This taught me to always check the serial number of a higher-end gun before buying, at least to make sure it is as-advertised and especially when the gun's been modified. This includes making sure serial numbers match on various parts of the gun where applicable. I would assume most manufacturers have some kind of serial number lookup site like CZ does, but mileage may vary.

I know CZs much better now so I'd be able to spot these issues earlier, but the serial number lookup site is invaluable. If the seller doesn't want to reveal the serial number for verification then I won't buy the gun.

Caveat Emptor!

 

[NedSled]

Crank a few rounds off into the air.
When the seller starts freaking out, give them an annoyed look.

 

[2muchsoysauce4allthisrice]

The gun of interest would be a Glock 19 gen 3. Just wanted to know what to look for or what to do to verify it works. Thanks for asking by the way. This place is very supportive so I’m learning a lot. Barely getting into all this so yeah can say I’m new to all this so I’m trying to learn as much as I can do I don’t make to many mistakes when buying.

For Glock 19 gen 3, I don’t think you need to be so worried.

You should be alright overall if it’s low round count. Before even meeting up, I would message the seller for pictures to ask to show the slide to barrel wear, pictures of the underside of the slide and also pictures of the top and bottom portion of the barrel; looking for wear marks. Barely any to light wear is lower round count. A lot of wear is higher in the round count but it also could have been not that high of round count but they just like to run their pistols dry (not oiled) when firing.

By the time you get there to the ppt, you are there to just verify the pictures match; similar to making sure that person in the dating app profile pictures isn’t an Ogre. You can just lock the slide back to look at the top of the barrel really quick; you don’t really need to take apart the gun. I’m pretty OCD telling you this too; if that helps.

Whenever I’ve bought my Glocks via ppt I already messaged the seller for pictures and asked questions before meeting up. A quick slide lock back at the ppt inside the store to verify the pictures look the same. I hand over the cash in an envelope to start with the dros; I also tell the seller to count it to make sure it’s all there. I was taught to never hold a seller hostage on their cash until paperwork is started or until after the paperwork is done; there was also a big push for this on Calguns from the older generation teaching the younger generation. If everything is as is during inspection, buyer hands over the cash, meaning they are proceeding on with the transaction or a non-verbal way of saying I’m here to buy, and ready to start paperwork.

But it doesn’t mean hand over the cash outside the store before you’ve even walked in or even inspected the gun. If the store doesn’t allow cash handling inside the store, then the both of you walk outside to do the exchange of cash and walk back in; the guns is still in the store under the gun stores control anyways so it’s not like they are leaving straight to their car as soon you hand over the cash.

For a gun like that, even with a higher round count, simple maintenance could just be changing out the recoil spring to a brand new one; that’s if it doesn’t run when you get to the gun range.

Again, dealing with people with feedback can help; but it’s not always the case. Glocks are very easily serviceable.

I bought a Leo trade in Glock 17 gen 3 that was high round count some months ago, gun looked like it clearly had been in some tumbles on the ground, bent slide release half way worked; everything ran as is even with the old parts. I just chose to do a full disassembly of the slide and frame to clean and oil; but also change out certain serviceable and maintenance parts just for an ease of mind.

 

[HarleyLowRiderST]

“When buying a gun from a member how do I check if the gun works before paying for it?”

The short answer is you can only inspect and look for things that might be a give away the gun has issues. Rack, dry fire, mag release, is all I ever do and have never had an issue. Maybe remove the slide if you have suspicions.

For PPT:

• Seller presents gun case to FFL
• FFL opens and clears gun
• FFL asks for both Driver’s Licenses and buyer’s other documents.
• Buyer inspects gun
• (I exchange money right here)
• FFL completed paperwork for both parties
• Paperwork complete and both parties leave.

Over 40 PPTs and all have gone the same way. Only once did seller bring a semi pistol that had a round in the chamber when FFL went to clear it. FFL was no happy but PPT continued.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

For Glock 19 gen 3, I don’t think you need to be so worried.

You should be alright overall if it’s low round count. Before even meeting up, I would message the seller for pictures to ask to show the slide to barrel wear, pictures of the underside of the slide and also pictures of the top and bottom portion of the barrel; looking for wear marks. Barely any to light wear is lower round count. A lot of wear is higher in the round count but it also could have been not that high of round count but they just like to run their pistols dry (not oiled) when firing.

By the time you get there to the ppt, you are there to just verify the pictures match; similar to making sure that person in the dating app profile pictures isn’t an Ogre. You can just lock the slide back to look at the top of the barrel really quick; you don’t really need to take apart the gun. I’m pretty OCD telling you this too; if that helps.

Whenever I’ve bought my Glocks via ppt I already messaged the seller for pictures and asked questions before meeting up. A quick slide lock back at the ppt inside the store to verify the pictures look the same. I hand over the cash in an envelope to start with the dros; I also tell the seller to count it to make sure it’s all there. I was taught to never hold a seller hostage on their cash until paperwork is started or until after the paperwork is done; there was also a big push for this on Calguns from the older generation teaching the younger generation. If everything is as is during inspection, buyer hands over the cash, meaning they are proceeding on with the transaction or a non-verbal way of saying I’m here to buy, and ready to start paperwork.

But it doesn’t mean hand over the cash outside the store before you’ve even walked in or even inspected the gun. If the store doesn’t allow cash handling inside the store, then the both of you walk outside to do the exchange of cash and walk back in; the guns is still in the store under the gun stores control anyways so it’s not like they are leaving straight to their car as soon you hand over the cash.

For a gun like that, even with a higher round count, simple maintenance could just be changing out the recoil spring to a brand new one; that’s if it doesn’t run when you get to the gun range.

Again, dealing with people with feedback can help; but it’s not always the case. Glocks are very easily serviceable.

I bought a Leo trade in Glock 17 gen 3 that was high round count some months ago, gun looked like it clearly had been in some tumbles on the ground, bent slide release half way worked; everything ran as is even with the old parts. I just chose to do a full disassembly of the slide and frame to clean and oil; but also change out certain serviceable and maintenance parts just for an ease of mind.

Most modern pistols are good for a couple of hundred thousand rounds. Realistically, it is hard to find any firearm that truly has a high round count relative to how long they will last. I don’t even ask any more how many rounds. It doesn’t matter.

 

[jmoe15]

I mean don’t go flashing the thing around but in most cases it’s fine. most places want you to make sure you want the gun prior to checking in and starting paperwork and wasting time.

Jsandoval is correct. Typically all transactions are to be performed prior to entering the store. That includes the cash transaction. The FFL makes absolutely nothing on a PPT ($10). It is not their responsibility to have people looking over firearms and negotiating at their gun counter. If you want to make sure the gun works, tell the seller you will meet him at the range on your dime. If the seller agrees ok.

This is coming from my friends who own guns stores and I have transferred A LOT of firearms.

 

[five.five-six]

I have bought one gun that ended up not working. I fixed it.

Generally, if I’m going to buy a used gun with a lot of miles on it, I’m kind of on the hook for knowing a thing or two about the gun before I buy it.

Just under the wire last year, I purchased a lot of A.R. 15 parts. There were enough parts to fully build to complete AR’s and about a 5 gallon bucket of mostly quality parts left after that. Turns out that several of the bolt carriers had their boars machine about 0.092” too deep and within a few dozen rounds would tear the gas rings off. The seller really had no way of knowing, they were brand new. What I did was call the seller and let him know that I have this issue and I just wanted him to check the rest of his stuff before he sold it to somebody else. As it turns out the rest of his bolt carrier groups were fine and I bought new carriers to replace the defective ones that I’d purchased. No hard feelings.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

Jsandoval is correct. Typically all transactions are to be performed prior to entering the store. That includes the cash transaction. The FFL makes absolutely nothing on a PPT ($10). It is not their responsibility to have people looking over firearms and negotiating at their gun counter. If you want to make sure the gun works, tell the seller you will meet him at the range on your dime. If the seller agrees ok.

This is coming from my friends who own guns stores and I have transferred A LOT of firearms.

There is no way that handling a gun outside a gun store makes sense, logistically or legally, when one can simply do this in the safe location—inside the FFL. To put it in more stark terms, the seller now knows the buyer has showed up with some amount of cash, and this scenario is inherently risky given the possibility of robbery from bad actors. No place is safer for this transaction than the inside of an FFL with armed employees.

The FFL is also the safest place (logically) to transfer funds, which is why FFLs that allow cash transfer are offering a real security benefit to the buyer. Generally, the deal is hashed out before meeting at an FFL and the only thing that happens at the FFL is handling of the cleared gun and a cursory inspection by the buyer before cash transfer and PPT docs.

FFLs know the drill, and I've never had one tell me I can't look at a gun at the counter. Don't we look at THEIR guns at the counter? Generally the FFL will clear the gun before anyone is looking at anything, so there are no surprises there.

If an FFL did try to stop me from cursory inspection of a PPT gun at the counter, I would not return to that FFL. I've never had this happen though. Imagine the same FFL refusing to let someone handle one of their guns for sale, consignment prohibitions excepted.

"Hey, this Atlas is $6,600 but you want to handle it? Sorry. No can do." Or, imagine this same FFL making you go outside to look at it. Madness. Of course FFLs let you handle a cleared gun (cleared by them) at the counter. It's all part of a PPT.

An FFL which prohibits gun-inspection at the counter would get terrible reviews and would go out of business in short order. Consignment guns owned by people, I understand that some gun owners wouldn't want too many randoms or noobs handling their firearms, especially with respect to dry-firing. This would probably reduce the number of buyers, but an employee might be authorized to demonstrate function or show it to someone.

 

[Tere_Hanges]

Jsandoval is correct. Typically all transactions are to be performed prior to entering the store. That includes the cash transaction. The FFL makes absolutely nothing on a PPT ($10). It is not their responsibility to have people looking over firearms and negotiating at their gun counter. If you want to make sure the gun works, tell the seller you will meet him at the range on your dime. If the seller agrees ok.

I've done a lot of PPTs as a seller and buyer. I've never had to go outside to inspect the firearm or give or receive cash. But I also only go to FFLs that know what they are doing and dont make up laws that dont exist or nonsense policies.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

I've done a lot of PPTs as a seller and buyer. I've never had to go outside to inspect the firearm or give or receive cash. But I also only go to FFLs that know what they are doing and dont make up laws that dont exist or nonsense policies.

I would be highly suspicious of a seller who didn't want me to inspect a gun inside an FFL when they know I'm showing up with some amount of cash, and sometimes a significant amount.

 

[Tere_Hanges]

I would be highly suspicious of a seller who didn't want me to inspect a gun inside an FFL when they know I'm showing up with some amount of cash, and sometimes a significant amount.

I agree, it sounds insane.

 

[jmoe15]

I've done a lot of PPTs as a seller and buyer. I've never had to go outside to inspect the firearm or give or receive cash. But I also only go to FFLs that know what they are doing and dont make up laws that dont exist or nonsense policies.

The only requirement (law) is for them to run the background check. They can make any policy they want in their business. How hard is it to inspect a firearm outside. It's not like the other person doesn't already know you have a firearm or cash. If they wanted to rob you they already know where you are. What are you worried about. Have a little respect for the private business who isn't making anything on the transaction. You wonder why ffls make random policies and raise the cost of PPTS. I don't agree with it at all but as someone who owns businesses I understand. You're probably the guy who will fully disassemble a firearm in someone's business and waste their time. Then not even buy ammo or any accessories for that firearm

 

[Wolkenflieger]

The only requirement (law) is for them to run the background check. They can make any policy they want in their business. How hard is it to inspect a firearm outside. It's not like the other person doesn't already know you have a firearm or cash. If they wanted to rob you they already know where you are. What are you worried about. Have a little respect for the private business who isn't making anything on the transaction. You wonder why ffls make random policies and raise the cost of PPTS. I don't agree with it at all but as someone who owns businesses I understand. You're probably the guy who will fully disassemble a firearm in someone's business and waste their time. Then not even buy ammo or any accessories for that firearm

My argument is not for what an FFL can legally do, it's what makes sense for the buyer carrying some amount of cash. My Erebus sold for over $9,000. Do you want to walk around with that much cash for some shady parking lot exchange? I don't. This isn't about fear so much as situational awareness, reasonable logistics, and not taking silly risks for almost no benefit.

Do you want some bored and hostile cop to see you handling a gun in a parking lot? I don't, and what if he or she tries to slap you with some kind of brandishing charge or much worse? I don't need to explain the "much worse" I hope. This risk is in addition to some hysterical Karen seeing you and reporting you to 911 in the worst way possible.

Nobody is talking about a full takedown of a gun at the counter. We're talking cursory inspection only as most people tend to do. By the time an astute buyer sees the gun in-person they've already had a chance to pore over pictures and have questions answered. Generally, all questions have been asked and answered before either party sets foot in the FFL, where only gun inspection and paperwork remain.

Either way, I will always prefer an FFL which lets me inspect a PPT gun at the counter and lets me exchange cash in store. How they run their business is their business, but I will take my business where it makes the most sense for me. That's the way the market works, isn't it?

 

[Boomhauer]

I pretty much get everyone’s concerns but I will give an example me and my buddy were at Turner’s and he pretty much was just paying at the counter and someone walked in with a rifle bag and got behind him. My buddy said you selling and the guy said yeah I’m selling an M1A and my buddy asked him his price for what he’d like to get out of it and my buddy agreed on the amount since turners of course would offer him much less. The manager at Turner’s knows us pretty well and my buddy paid what he needed to for his purchases and said me and this gentleman would like to do a PPT he’s checking in his gun, so the manager asked my buddy have you seen this gun already or did you just meet and my buddy said we just met and the manager told him why don’t you do us all a favor and go to your cars and make sure that you want this firearm (Saturday very crowded) the two went to the sellers car. I personally wanted to see the gun as well because well you know M1A lol so I asked the guy would it be ok if I went to check out the gun as well and he said yeah no problem, so I went as well. Looked it over didn’t take long and came back in and manager said OK both parties happy let’s check this in and have you guys pull a number. My first PPT came from when I was at a shotgun range and me and my buddy met these two guys and we were just talking. He was explaining that he just bought a 940 and he wanted to get rid of his 930 and I said interesting. What’s your price he told me and said I have it right here if you would like to test fire so I said sure shot it liked it and then we agreed on a place so that was great all other PPT‘s that I have done from here we have agreed on a place and either I or him get there and say hey I’m in this car we get out and meet and then they have said would you like to check it out? I agree a quick look over and we both head in.

 

[five.five-six]

If you are really all that worried about buying a broken gun, just buy new, there are plenty of roster guns to fit most any NEED. Desires are a whole different subject. I really enjoy collecting milsurp. I have an affinity with giving TLC to rusty guns. I go into those transactions expecting to put in some elbow grease and probably a few bucks.

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

3 Feedback. Checks out.

Usually the least amount of feedbacks or no feedbacks at all talks the most BS in gun forums.

 

[Tere_Hanges]

The only requirement (law) is for them to run the background check. They can make any policy they want in their business. How hard is it to inspect a firearm outside. It's not like the other person doesn't already know you have a firearm or cash. If they wanted to rob you they already know where you are. What are you worried about. Have a little respect for the private business who isn't making anything on the transaction. You wonder why ffls make random policies and raise the cost of PPTS. I don't agree with it at all but as someone who owns businesses I understand. You're probably the guy who will fully disassemble a firearm in someone's business and waste their time. Then not even buy ammo or any accessories for that firearm

Again, I've done a lot of PPTS both as a buyer and seller and Ive never had an issue inspecting the gun in the shop and paying or receiving cash. Not once. I've never asked an FFL if they prefer we inspect the firearm outside in their parking lot. Because its just too dumb a thing to ask. And I dont waste peoples time asking dumb questions. But Im pretty sure if I did ask, they would tell me to come inside. Probably because that just makes sense. Its really not that complicated. Go inside, check out the gun, pay, and start the paperwork. Again, my FFLs know the drill and dont have any weird policies that dont make sense.

 

[Wolkenflieger]

I pretty much get everyone’s concerns but I will give an example me and my buddy were at Turner’s and he pretty much was just paying at the counter and someone walked in with a rifle bag and got behind him. My buddy said you selling and the guy said yeah I’m selling an M1A and my buddy asked him his price for what he’d like to get out of it and my buddy agreed on the amount since turners of course would offer him much less. The manager at Turner’s knows us pretty well and my buddy paid what he needed to for his purchases and said me and this gentleman would like to do a PPT he’s checking in his gun, so the manager asked my buddy have you seen this gun already or did you just meet and my buddy said we just met and the manager told him why don’t you do us all a favor and go to your cars and make sure that you want this firearm (Saturday very crowded) the two went to the sellers car. I personally wanted to see the gun as well because well you know M1A lol so I asked the guy would it be ok if I went to check out the gun as well and he said yeah no problem, so I went as well. Looked it over didn’t take long and came back in and manager said OK both parties happy let’s check this in and have you guys pull a number. My first PPT came from when I was at a shotgun range and me and my buddy met these two guys and we were just talking. He was explaining that he just bought a 940 and he wanted to get rid of his 930 and I said interesting. What’s your price he told me and said I have it right here if you would like to test fire so I said sure shot it liked it and then we agreed on a place so that was great all other PPT‘s that I have done from here we have agreed on a place and either I or him get there and say hey I’m in this car we get out and meet and then they have said would you like to check it out? I agree a quick look over and we both head in.

Line breaks are a friend to everyone, sir.