Where & how to fight, undermine, overturn AB 1263, 2571 + SB 704?!? These can NOT be allowed to stand.

[CaptainLevi]

LOL why is there a mini flame war going on in this thread

 

[NaboombuLagoon]

LOL why is there a mini flame war going on in this thread

Apparently, we're all worked up about these new laws, but are too big of s to actually do anything about it, so we're fighting each other.

 

[DrJonesUSA]

I agree with the other poster, there is no fixing this- we can only hope the SC steps up (which so far they haven't) Only option is to leave.
If the state tries to get rid of private health care and only have a california option, that will absolutely be the nail in the coffin. If they control my healthcare, then its over.

I think you prove my point, and disprove yours with your two separate posts.

The fact that there are so many places without a physical gun store nearby, and the fact that so many retailers refuse to ship - or carriers will not accept packages because of the ID requirement infrastructure - proves this is more of a defacto - and sweeping - ban. It directly infringes upon our rights to keep & bear arms.

The argument that "parts aren't guns" is total BS & wasn't that disproven by several court opinions? Specifically as it pertains to magazines.

It is my very limited understanding that - sure, maybe the unwritten, unstated INTENT of a law doesn't matter in court, but the real-world consequences & impact of it sure do matter.

If this is supposed to be "merely common sense gun regulation", then what are we to make of the fact that vast numbers of people are now completely unable to obtain - without extraordinary effort - necessary parts to keep their 2A protected guns functioning.

Further; I'd like to see anyone argue for these BS laws in light of Bruen.....

 

[DrJonesUSA]

LOL why is there a mini flame war going on in this thread

Seriously, IDK.
We're our own worst enemy.
We spend more time fighting each other than the enemy.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

I think you prove my point, and disprove yours with your two separate posts.

The fact that there are so many places without a physical gun store nearby, and the fact that so many retailers refuse to ship - or carriers will not accept packages because of the ID requirement infrastructure - proves this is more of a defacto - and sweeping - ban. It directly infringes upon our rights to keep & bear arms.

The argument that "parts aren't guns" is total BS & wasn't that disproven by several court opinions? Specifically as it pertains to magazines.

It is my very limited understanding that - sure, maybe the unwritten, unstated INTENT of a law doesn't matter in court, but the real-world consequences & impact of it sure do matter.

If this is supposed to be "merely common sense gun regulation", then what are we to make of the fact that vast numbers of people are now completely unable to obtain - without extraordinary effort - necessary parts to keep their 2A protected guns functioning.

Further; I'd like to see anyone argue for these BS laws in light of Bruen.....

Hold my beer:

Heller Bruen and Rahimi all discuss and state that regulation in order to keep weapons away from "sensitive places" and "prohibited persons" upholding background checks is constitutional. Bruen went even further to explicitly say that CCW and other permit programs were constitutional. Rahimi is all about keeping weapons away from prohibited persons and further defines what can be involved in that class of person i.e. someone under a DV restraining order under suspicion of being violent or dangerous. Unfortunately there is a lot of regulation specifically called out as constitutional, and by the conservative judges no less. Not bringing this up because I like it just that I think people aren't aware of what these cases actually said. All that said I do think that AW and fun magazines have a good chance of coming back under the Bruen test, and the roster gone because that would be the same mechanism as the aw ban

 

[CaptainLevi]

Seriously, IDK.
We're our own worst enemy.
We spend more time fighting each other than the enemy.

Wait so how are you planning to not comply with these laws?

 

[Deleted member 31158]

I mean... he's not wrong. I can think of much worse names for this state, I use them multiple times every day, usually preceded by "I hate this (expletive) state and followed by "I just have to finish school, just a few more months until I can run and never look back."

If you like, I can throw a tea bag into the ocean next time I'm in Pescadero or Moss Landing. I might get a littering ticket. If you are advocating for violent overthrow of our government, you are not doing gun rights a favor. Insulting the state with a nasty nickname also doesn't help anything.

 

[CaptainLevi]

I mean... he's not wrong. I can think of much worse names for this state, I use them multiple times every day, usually preceded by "I hate this (expletive) state and followed by "I just have to finish school, just a few more months until I can run and never look back."

I think TreeLogger is a supporter of these laws. Based on what he said bro.

 

[treelogger]

Clearly I can tell that you are a fudd, forgotten your history and in no way will help or defend gun rights as a person.

That's false. I have spent considerable timing working directly with politicians and legislators to prevent insane gun laws (such as the one we're discussing in this thread) from being passed.

Change your name to treehugger instead

If you run out of arguments, you switch to insults. The funny thing is that I own a half dozen chainsaws, a bucket truck, and a 200 HP chipper. Calling myself treehugger would be ... stupid.

I think TreeLogger is a supporter of these laws. Based on what he said bro.

That is completely false. I think these laws are asinine. They are not at all effective in reducing crime, or making California a safer place. But they work really well in (a) making republicans mad, (b) mad republicans running around in circles like chickens with their heads cut off, (c) causing some republicans to relocate to other states, and (d) making a small group of democratic activists happy. While these laws make for good politics and good propaganda, they are bad policy.

The important thing to note: Me pointing out that many gun rights proponents (such as the OP) have zero clue, zero plan for how to improve things, and all they do is make things worse fur gun people and gun rights, doesn't mean that I'm on the other side. It only means what I just said.

 

[kmoros]

I previously explained on reddit why these laws are going to be hard to beat unless B&L Productions is overturned:

 

[NeilDown]

There's updates on AB 2571 on the California Rifle and Pistol Association (CRPA) website: https://crpa.org/?s=AB+2571

There's info on AB1263 also at CRPA: https://crpa.org/?s=AB1263

So. Not only have I given you information regarding law status and challenges... I've given you what is probably the single best tool available to fight these laws.

The California Rifle and Pistol Association (CRPA).

Join if you haven't. Upgrade your membership if you're already a member. Contribute funds. Volunteer to help the organization.

The National Rifle Association (NRA) is another fine resource. The new leadership has cleaned house, and the organization is something all gun owners can get behind. Donate, join, volunteer.

The ball is in your court.

Is CRPA fighting 1263?

I couldn't see anything on their website saying they are looking for plaintiffs or that there is a challenge coming.

Did the state use ChatGPT to find the perfect loophole here that isn't challengeable?

I bought a bunch of stuff in December, so haven't tried to buy any parts recently, but I saw a local FFL say they don't accept parts at all, but can order them for you.

I think I saw some other states now trying to do the same, hopefully there will be a national level challenge to this soon.

 

[Smittty]

My goodness, once again someone just standing for california in the thread, then they will tell me how they are not.

Just because YOU live close to some gun shops, doesn't mean everyone does... there are so many small towns all over the state without any gun stores, especially after the extra 11% tax has shut down some of those little ones because not many people can afford that extra 11% and dont buy.

To add to the upside nature of the shops closing, every tax dollar collected from online sales goes directly to sacramento and does not get distributed to the zip code where the delivery was made. Same with the tax on amazon purchases, goes direct to sacramento and not your city.

No local gun shops, means no tax revenue for your city.

Hate to think like this but, maybe save the purchases for when you travel out of state.

 

[tacticalb]

I just can't handle how people seem to fall all over themselves to comply.

I get it; I'm not expecting anyone to incriminate themselves on a public forum, but still.....there's a difference between willingly incriminating yourself & falling all over yourself to comply, and it's deftinitely the latter.......

Like honestly; some of the comments I've read elsewhere (not even on CAGuns) people seem almost excited / happy to come up with creative ways to "comply" with these horse laws. They seem more eager, motivated and inventive about coming up with ways to comply (things like making ID check easier) than when actual new guns + parts come available.

Any democrats reading this forum are certainly having a large, long, and well-deserved laugh at how we just fall right in line.
I certainly do not mean this towards anyone in here & I don't mean any disrespect; its just my observation (and again; even on different forums more than here).

You will be suprised with how many regular people dont even comply... up where I am at its just insane to even think about the things people own and shoot on their properties.. most of the law enforcement up here dont even care because they know everyone knows each other and are responsible human beings...

Yes you have those people who are excited when these platforms make "breakthroughs" that make no sense which in reality neutered your firearm further to a Kentucky-single-powder-shot-long-rifle and unfortunately is away for companies to greedily make insane amounts of money just to comply to state standards..

The democrats all in all know what they are doing and will continue to use the same tactics they have been using for years. Its a free comedy show that benefits them big money into their pockets...

 

[tacticalb]

That's false. I have spent considerable timing working directly with politicians and legislators to prevent insane gun laws (such as the one we're discussing in this thread) from being passed.


If you run out of arguments, you switch to insults. The funny thing is that I own a half dozen chainsaws, a bucket truck, and a 200 HP chipper. Calling myself treehugger would be ... stupid.


That is completely false. I think these laws are asinine. They are not at all effective in reducing crime, or making California a safer place. But they work really well in (a) making republicans mad, (b) mad republicans running around in circles like chickens with their heads cut off, (c) causing some republicans to relocate to other states, and (d) making a small group of democratic activists happy. While these laws make for good politics and good propaganda, they are bad policy.

The important thing to note: Me pointing out that many gun rights proponents (such as the OP) have zero clue, zero plan for how to improve things, and all they do is make things worse fur gun people and gun rights, doesn't mean that I'm on the other side. It only means what I just said.

Its false huh? Well I see the results of your timing and prevention really going hand in hand with what you believe and because they are signing/signed these laws into place. How about you show your proof that you working "directly" with them. I want to see logs, conversations, podcasts, interviews, pictures, documents, etc.. anybody can say what you said but I need evidence.

I made a solid argument.. you started with the insult by even considering littering in this state. You insulted commiefornias ecosystem which is already in danger of falling apart.. how dare you add pollution and potentially killing a sea otter that can choke on that tea bag! Dont play victim here .

Man congratulations.. do you want a gold star for the things you own that help you clean out the weeds in your yard?! Lol

 

[AA2323]

AB1263 significantly impacts the price you pay for parts because many sites won't play the CA game and aren't shipping here. Maybe that changes over time but I've easily paid 20%-30% more on various parts since this passed because it's limited our purchasing options.

 

[treelogger]

Dont play victim here .

I sense much fear in you. Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering.
Seriously: Being angry and insulting won't help matters.

I want to see logs, conversations, podcasts, interviews, pictures, documents, etc.. anybody can say what you said but I need evidence.

Last I checked you don't have the power to subpoena or depose. But you can accuse.

AB1263 significantly impacts the price you pay for parts because many sites won't play the CA game and aren't shipping here. Maybe that changes over time but I've easily paid 20%-30% more on various parts since this passed because it's limited our purchasing options.

Last I checked the 2A doesn't say "the right to keep and bear arms, and buy them inexpensively, must not be infringed". The cost of owning and using guns is driven up by many factors; some are federal (the NFA for certain items, the 11% excise tax, the ATF regulatory burden), some are state (another 11%, even more regulation, and now making shipping harder). Kostas (who is an intelligent person!) said something very wise above: In our current legal situation, minor impediments that make it "a little" harder to get guns and parts and supplies are not considered to infringe on the 2A. Before you can even start making a 2A argument, the state has to "meaningfully constrain" the above-described ability to keep and bear arms. And an extra $20 for shipping and handling here and there does not fit that.

Go to the CAguns reddit, and look at all the out-of-jail pictures (with feet) and the big boxes of ammo being delivered to FFL03+CoE. The average salary for software engineers in Silicon Valley is $237K. That right there is strong evidence against "meaningfully constrained". I understand that there is a social class that is not so fortunate, and that makes them angry. But anger doesn't fix our political situation (on the contrary, making republicans angry is considered a win for the party in power here); nor does calling for an armed uprising with dog whistle such as "tea party".

 

[Deleted member 11316]

We all wait with bated breath...what are you doing to not comply?

Nice try fed

 

[NaboombuLagoon]

Nice try fed

Yeah…the feds would totally be trying to find out how people are breaking state laws that they don’t give 2 s about.

This comment might be as dumb as the one I was replying to.

 

[Deleted member 11316]

Yeah…the feds would totally be trying to find out how people are breaking state laws that they don’t give 2 s about.

This comment might be as dumb as the one I was replying to.

If you thought that was dumb just wait until you realize you wasted time reading this

 

[tacticalb]

I sense much fear in you. Fear is the path to the dark side. Fear leads to anger; anger leads to hate; hate leads to suffering.
Seriously: Being angry and insulting won't help matters.


Last I checked you don't have the power to subpoena or depose. But you can accuse.


Last I checked the 2A doesn't say "the right to keep and bear arms, and buy them inexpensively, must not be infringed". The cost of owning and using guns is driven up by many factors; some are federal (the NFA for certain items, the 11% excise tax, the ATF regulatory burden), some are state (another 11%, even more regulation, and now making shipping harder). Kostas (who is an intelligent person!) said something very wise above: In our current legal situation, minor impediments that make it "a little" harder to get guns and parts and supplies are not considered to infringe on the 2A. Before you can even start making a 2A argument, the state has to "meaningfully constrain" the above-described ability to keep and bear arms. And an extra $20 for shipping and handling here and there does not fit that.

Go to the CAguns reddit, and look at all the out-of-jail pictures (with feet) and the big boxes of ammo being delivered to FFL03+CoE. The average salary for software engineers in Silicon Valley is $237K. That right there is strong evidence against "meaningfully constrained". I understand that there is a social class that is not so fortunate, and that makes them angry. But anger doesn't fix our political situation (on the contrary, making republicans angry is considered a win for the party in power here); nor does calling for an armed uprising with dog whistle such as "tea party".

Ahhh another insecure liberal who is a liar cant believe you are a "contributer" on this site. Not even worth discussing anything further with you. Thank you for working with politicians as you claim signing these crazy laws in our state. Later treehugger