Who are the best shooters?

[Brandon Breeze]

Straight from Matt Pranka. Pranka has done both at the highest levels.

"People use the "Tactical" Umbrella as the #1 excuse for being slow"

More from Matt:

The interesting part is that Matt in the video is coming from the tactical side, and his conclusion is basically the opposite of “competition teaches bad habits.”

His point is that shooting is shooting: whether you’re a competitor, LEO, or military, the fundamental objective is the same, put accurate rounds where you want them as fast as possible. He specifically says practical/competitive shooting was a “consistent game changer” in his own performance and argues that competitive shooters are developing the exact visual processing, speed, accuracy and gun-handling skills that tactical shooters need.

He’s not saying competition replaces tactics. His argument is that marksmanship is the foundation, and tactics get built on top of it, not the other way around. That’s also why he says not to pigeonhole your training into one aiming strategy just because you’re training for a particular context.

So when someone says “competition is just a game,” that misses the point. The competition format is a game; the underlying shooting skills being developed are very real.

There's a reason more and more LEO are showing up at competitive shooting matches. Some departments are highly recommending competitions so that their officers get better at shooting.

 

[Gawernator]

Like the competition shooters that infiltrated Abbottabad and shot Osama Bin Laden

 

[Ryan Gosling]

Me

Im the best shooter

 

[Gawernator]

You can have fat and old competitive good shooters, but you can't have fat and old be good tactical shooters.

Tactical shooters can work in all 3 categories. They can work to utilize all their equipment (multitask), they can shoot while being shot at. Competitive shooters can't multitask unless 3 gun/2 gun, but even then, you don't have to carry all your gears inbetween shooting.

I chose tactical shooters as best shooters.

Yepppp. It's a silly comparison really.

Squad of comp shooters vs JSOC.... yeah there are gonna be a lot of dead competition shooters lmao. It wouldn't be a fair fight.

 

[Darqhelmet]

sadly unlike mil/le/vets just showing up at comps we can’t have the top level comps go to combat so I guess we will just have to think what we think.

Unless everyone wants to go to ukraine and see what happens.

 

[ZChaosFactor]

I don’t disagree except for the “Cope” comment.

They are two distinctly different types of shooting disciplines, period, full stop. One is for a game, one is for survival.

Putting holes in paper is not like putting holes in a living being. I don’t need to have a quarter size group and beat a timer to win a gun fight.

I think Competition Shooters honestly put more stock in their abilities as a competitive shooter and think that makes them better than people who carry a gun for a living.

None of the people of over 22 years that I trained or served with ever brought up competition shooters or that they were better than them. Simply because we are not in the same wheelhouse and didn’t reallly talk about that. We only cared about getting better and figuring out better tactics to keep us alive. (No, I was not a super duper elite ninja, but we trained with them and supported them while deployed).

Every time I have read the Competition vs Tactical Shooter it is always been the Comp guys starting the conversation and acting like competition shooting is the be all end all of the shooting dynamic.

So who is really “Coping” here?

Agreed there are two completely different types of shooting and comparing them is somewhat pointless. That was my original comment. Competition shooters are better pure shooters but comparing them isnt apples to apples.

Mag dumping and calling it suppressive fire doesnt make you a good shooter. Most military and Leo have never been in a true survival situation.

Comp guys train to put multiple (usually 2 rounds) in the middle of the target as fast and efficiently as possible. Putting rounds where you want them faster than the other person is what will determine who survives a gunfight and thats what makes someone a good shooter.

We dont think that you carrying a gun for a living means you are a good shooter. Leo's are notoriously bad shooters/ gun handlers. Comp guys think that we are better shooters because we train and put more rounds down range in a week than the average Leo does in a year.

Anytime i see comments about shooting moving targets from a boat or paper doesnt shoot back its straight cope. Competition shooting and gunfights are different skills but competition guys are better pure shooters based on time on task / rounds down range so can we just agree on that and stop comparing the different disciplines?

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

sadly unlike mil/le/vets just showing up at comps we can’t have the top level comps go to combat so I guess we will just have to think what we think.

Unless everyone wants to go to ukraine and see what happens.

F’ that. Like WWI and WWIII all in one. Scary with drones, robots and everyone fielding experimental equipment on battlefield.

 

[Gawernator]

Agreed there are two completely different types of shooting and comparing them is somewhat pointless. That was my original comment. Competition shooters are better pure shooters but comparing them isnt apples to apples.

Mag dumping and calling it suppressive fire doesnt make you a good shooter. Most military and Leo have never been in a true survival situation.

Comp guys train to put multiple (usually 2 rounds) in the middle of the target as fast and efficiently as possible. Putting rounds where you want them faster than the other person is what will determine who survives a gunfight and thats what makes someone a good shooter.

We dont think that you carrying a gun for a living means you are a good shooter. Leo's are notoriously bad shooters/ gun handlers. Comp guys think that we are better shooters because we train and put more rounds down range in a week than the average Leo does in a year.

Anytime i see comments about shooting moving targets from a boat or paper doesnt shoot back its straight cope. Competition shooting and gunfights are different skills but competition guys are better pure shooters based on time on task / rounds down range so can we just agree on that and stop comparing the different disciplines?

Then they get blown up by a drone. Warfare ain't fun like a competition shoot, that's the real cope

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

Agreed there are two completely different types of shooting and comparing them is somewhat pointless. That was my original comment. Competition shooters are better pure shooters but comparing them isnt apples to apples.

Mag dumping and calling it suppressive fire doesnt make you a good shooter. Most military and Leo have never been in a true survival situation.

Comp guys train to put multiple (usually 2 rounds) in the middle of the target as fast and efficiently as possible. Putting rounds where you want them faster than the other person is what will determine who survives a gunfight and thats what makes someone a good shooter.

We dont think that you carrying a gun for a living means you are a good shooter. Leo's are notoriously bad shooters/ gun handlers. Comp guys think that we are better shooters because we train and put more rounds down range in a week than the average Leo does in a year.

Anytime i see comments about shooting moving targets from a boat or paper doesnt shoot back its straight cope. Competition shooting and gunfights are different skills but competition guys are better pure shooters based on time on task / rounds down range so can we just agree on that and stop comparing the different disciplines?

So just to be clear, your whole point is to say that Competition Shooters are the be all end all of the accuracy, speed world.

Am I missing something?

I loved the mag dumping accuracy analogy though. You know, because we use suppressing fire to keep the enemies head down so we can maneuver to flank or acquire a better angle of fire not practice accuracy at that moment. Lol. And it’s mostly going to be done by your gunner anyways, so….

 

[Gawernator]

So just to be clear, your whole point is to say that Competition Shooters are the be all end all of the accuracy, speed world.

Am I missing something?

I guess he thinks he can take down DEVGRU because of competition shooting games!

 

[ZeroFoxGiven]

I guess he thinks he can take down DEVGRU because of competition shooting games!

For sure, just needs the timer to go off first so he knows when to start shooting.

 

[Gawernator]

For sure, just needs the timer to go off first so he knows when to start shooting.

The timer is when the flashbang grenade goes off in their room. LOL

 

[Gawernator]

I don’t disagree except for the “Cope” comment.

They are two distinctly different types of shooting disciplines, period, full stop. One is for a game, one is for survival.

Putting holes in paper is not like putting holes in a living being. I don’t need to have a quarter size group and beat a timer to win a gun fight.

I think Competition Shooters honestly put more stock in their abilities as a competitive shooter and think that makes them better than people who carry a gun for a living.

None of the people of over 22 years that I trained or served with ever brought up competition shooters or that they were better than them. Simply because we are not in the same wheelhouse and didn’t reallly talk about that. We only cared about getting better and figuring out better tactics to keep us alive. (No, I was not a super duper elite ninja, but we trained with them and supported them while deployed).

Every time I have read the Competition vs Tactical Shooter it is always been the Comp guys starting the conversation and acting like competition shooting is the be all end all of the shooting dynamic.

So who is really “Coping” here?

Good point. I never heard a SEAL bring up competitive shooters even once. Lol. Seems obvious who is obsessed with who

"cope"

 

[ZChaosFactor]

So just to be clear, your whole point is to say that Competition Shooters are the be all end all of the accuracy, speed world.

Am I missing something?

I loved the mag dumping accuracy analogy though. You know, because we use suppressing fire to keep the enemies head down so we can maneuver to flank or acquire a better angle of fire not practice accuracy at that moment. Lol. And it’s mostly going to be done by your gunner anyways, so….

My point is that as a whole group across the spectrum competition shooters are faster and more accurate than leo and military personnel.

Beyond that tactics versus competition is a silly discussion.

Good cope on suppressive fire.

 

[ZChaosFactor]

I guess he thinks he can take down DEVGRU because of competition shooting games!

And I bet you think that DEVGRU could compete against world class competition shooters in a match.

Good cope.

 

[Gawernator]

Straight from Matt Pranka. Pranka has done both at the highest levels.

"People use the "Tactical" Umbrella as the #1 excuse for being slow"

More from Matt:

The interesting part is that Matt in the video is coming from the tactical side, and his conclusion is basically the opposite of “competition teaches bad habits.”

His point is that shooting is shooting: whether you’re a competitor, LEO, or military, the fundamental objective is the same, put accurate rounds where you want them as fast as possible. He specifically says practical/competitive shooting was a “consistent game changer” in his own performance and argues that competitive shooters are developing the exact visual processing, speed, accuracy and gun-handling skills that tactical shooters need.

He’s not saying competition replaces tactics. His argument is that marksmanship is the foundation, and tactics get built on top of it, not the other way around. That’s also why he says not to pigeonhole your training into one aiming strategy just because you’re training for a particular context.

So when someone says “competition is just a game,” that misses the point. The competition format is a game; the underlying shooting skills being developed are very real.

There's a reason more and more LEO are showing up at competitive shooting matches. Some departments are highly recommending competitions so that their officers get better at shooting.

Well that makes sense since many cops are not into guns at all and rarely practice. Taser taser taser! *shoots you over the acorn falling down* lol

 

[Gawernator]

And I bet you think that DEVGRU could compete against world class competition shooters in a match.

Good cope.

Maybe not but why would they need to? That's not their job. Is Valentino Rossi going to win a 450 Supercross race?

 

[ZChaosFactor]

Not really comparable, unless the match targets start shooting back at you or you need to snipe someone across the ocean off an aircraft carrier to save a hostage. One is a competitive sport and one is real life combat with real life consequences and there’s no timer or do overs.

Biggest pile of steaming cope I've seen in a while. Thanks for the laugh.

 

[Gawernator]

My point is that as a whole group across the spectrum competition shooters are faster and more accurate than leo and military personnel.

Beyond that tactics versus competition is a silly discussion.

Good cope on suppressive fire.

Most military and LEO shoot like once a year at best so I would hope they shoot better, lmao. A good comp shooter probably trains most days of the week so I would hope they can do better at their own sport.

 

[Gawernator]

Biggest pile of steaming cope I've seen in a while. Thanks for the laugh.

Idk man you seem to be feeling pretty insecure trying to prove you're better in combat than SEAL's haha. Why not go enlist and show us how it's done? Or would that be too difficult for you to achieve?