wow things have changed since 2012

[jayson_b24]

You need to spend $3k on a plastic framed 1911 with an $800+ optic and a bunch of $100 magazines. Giant magazine funnels are all the rage, as are chopping up slides and putting decorative holes in them.

Next thing will be some sort of 5mm caliber zipping along at 2,500 FPS that throws a six foot fireball.

.22 TCM is a 5.56 mm bullet, ~2000-2200 fps out of a 5" bbl. The fireball is quite impressive...

 

[vplaza96]

I'm not sure what the big deal is. We're not all driving gas vehicles today, people don't have black and white or CRT televisions, everyone is using smart phones, not everyone has cable TV, most people use Uber/Lyft instead of taxis, internet is available via satellite, etc.

Okay, maybe there people who are exceptions to the above (maybe still rocking dial up and AOL?). There are things called progress, innovation, and variety. But hey, not everyone needs to change if they don't want to.

 

[grandpapeepap]

I'm not sure what the big deal is. We're not all driving gas vehicles today, people don't have black and white or CRT televisions, everyone is using smart phones, not everyone has cable TV, most people use Uber/Lyft instead of taxis, internet is available via satellite, etc.

Okay, maybe there people who are exceptions to the above (maybe still rocking dial up and AOL?). There are things called progress, innovation, and variety. But hey, not everyone needs to change if they don't want to.

i still got a crt television for my old consoles to avoid the lag delay of newers tvs, but your point still stands

 

[vplaza96]

i still got a crt television for my old consoles to avoid the lag delay of newers tvs, but your point still stands

Fair

 

[john_marsten_1873]

For red dots, I am not convinced for inside the home distances or within about 15 yards the offer any real advantage over the XS sights I have on all of my pistols.

I am a strong advocate of new shooters starting pistol training with irons. Once they're able to present with their sight aligned 99/100 times, consistently run a Bill and Failure/Mozambique under 4 seconds (all hits in alpha), B8 with 90+ points, start training with an optic. At that point they'll likely have their stance and grip in a solid place.

Then, training with an optic will force further improvement on fundamentals, especially grip and all the things necessary to better control manage recoil. Then it's working to get those drills in under 2 seconds and 95+, respectively.

Here is JJ Raccaza, former US Air Marshall, USPSA/IPSC Grand Master and world champion, debunking the myth irons are better at CCW distances:

Here is Isaac Lockwood running 1.20s Bill Drill with an optic:

 

[jayson_b24]

i still got a crt television for my old consoles to avoid the lag delay of newers tvs, but your point still stands

I was about to reply: "I can't play Duck Hunt without a CRT; and a world where i can't play Duck Hunt is not a world worth living in".

 

[Darqhelmet]

I started shooting in 1978 at age 10. Did a reasonable bit as funds allowed in my 20s and a ton in my late 30s to early 40s. Then outside of trap league, I didn’t do much until a few years ago (went a decade without logging on thehighroad or calguns websites). Like you, hibernating for a decade I noticed red dots have really exploded. When it comes to anything new, I try and think if it is really helpful vs. market hype to spend my money. I have a smart phone but passed on a smart watch. For red dots, I am not convinced for inside the home distances or within about 15 yards the offer any real advantage over the XS sights I have on all of my pistols. As such, I have avoided them. I have lots of reps without and a red dots has a slightly different draw stroke and I can’t imagine doing enough to erase what I have done with irons. I will eventually get one on a toy range gun to experiment. For serious self defense work, I will stick with my iron sights. If I were new, I’d totally go with red dots as an everything on the same focal plane is probably a good thing. At this point, too much effort to change.

Not as old but similar. Started shooing in the 80’s at around 6. I have never stopped though, slowed down in the Marines as it was not easy to keep your own firearms and I was uber poor with a wife and new kid. After I got out went back full speed, left CA and went even crazier. I skipped dots until about 2/3 years ago. After trying them of different sizes, colors, open and closed I will stick to iron sights. I have 30 plus years of pistol shooting with irons and drawing with a dot was just not working. I like one on my MKiv but that is to get over the suppressor and sadly that gun lives out of state. I have one floating around that i’ll put on my VP9 match for fun and so I can hand it to someone to try out. But until my eyes completely the bed i’m not retraining decades of draw strokes for something I didn’t really see a benefit from. Also I hated carrying with a dot, one more thing to get hung up on the draw.

Newer shooters should probably shoot both and if the dots work stick to them so they don’t have to relearn anything. I can see the advantage, i’m just to far down the irons path.

 

[Darqhelmet]

.22 TCM is a 5.56 mm bullet, ~2000-2200 fps out of a 5" bbl. The fireball is quite impressive...

ridiculously loud round. Funny as hell indoors. 7.5FK is similar.

 

[jayson_b24]

Not as old but similar. Started shooing in the 80’s at around 6. I have never stopped though, slowed down in the Marines as it was not easy to keep your own firearms and I was uber poor with a wife and new kid. After I got out went back full speed, left CA and went even crazier. I skipped dots until about 2/3 years ago. After trying them of different sizes, colors, open and closed I will stick to iron sights. I have 30 plus years of pistol shooting with irons and drawing with a dot was just not working. I like one on my MKiv but that is to get over the suppressor and sadly that gun lives out of state. I have one floating around that i’ll put on my VP9 match for fun and so I can hand it to someone to try out. But until my eyes completely the bed i’m not retraining decades of draw strokes for something I didn’t really see a benefit from. Also I hated carrying with a dot, one more thing to get hung up on the draw.

Newer shooters should probably shoot both and if the dots work stick to them so they don’t have to relearn anything. I can see the advantage, i’m just to far down the irons path.

Funny how that works. I grew up shooting a lot, then joined the Marines and left all my stuff back at home when I got stationed out here. I did get the opportunity to be a pistol coach, but I never was able to get my personal firearms back (they ended up being destroyed in a fire).

ridiculously loud round. Funny as hell indoors. 7.5FK is similar.

I keep hyping it up to my wife, who hasn't been to the range with it yet. She loves 1911s, but dislikes .45s.

 

[bigevil]

I'm not sure what the big deal is. We're not all driving gas vehicles today, people don't have black and white or CRT televisions, everyone is using smart phones, not everyone has cable TV, most people use Uber/Lyft instead of taxis, internet is available via satellite, etc.

Okay, maybe there people who are exceptions to the above (maybe still rocking dial up and AOL?). There are things called progress, innovation, and variety. But hey, not everyone needs to change if they don't want to.

fwiw it was less about being a big deal and more just genuine shock. when I left the hobby you'd have thought .40 would have taken over in a year or two and they'd have stopped making 9mm.

 

[Darqhelmet]

Funny how that works. I grew up shooting a lot, then joined there Marines and left all my stuff back at home when I got stationed out here. I did get the opportunity to be a pistol coach, but I never was able to get my personal firearms back (they ended up being destroyed in a fire).

I keep hyping it up to my wife, who hasn't been to the range with it yet. She loves 1911s, but dislikes .45s.

yeah I had less trigger time in service then before or after. Granted i’m a pog but still snap in week and qual week.

I have a 9mm SA emissary and holy I love that pistol. Cheaper to shoot too. Grabbed it because it was a screaming deal and fell in love. Here in CA I will take 9mm 1911’s over any 2011 unless the mag cap gets removed. They fit human hands and don’t have the silly hype around them.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

IPSC and USPSA exist

.38 Super is still a niche caliber, most shooters will not be familiar with it

The days of .40 and Limited/Production are long gone

Someone here is selling a P220 in .38 Super.

Not as old but similar. Started shooing in the 80’s at around 6. I have never stopped though, slowed down in the Marines as it was not easy to keep your own firearms and I was uber poor with a wife and new kid. After I got out went back full speed, left CA and went even crazier. I skipped dots until about 2/3 years ago. After trying them of different sizes, colors, open and closed I will stick to iron sights. I have 30 plus years of pistol shooting with irons and drawing with a dot was just not working. I like one on my MKiv but that is to get over the suppressor and sadly that gun lives out of state. I have one floating around that i’ll put on my VP9 match for fun and so I can hand it to someone to try out. But until my eyes completely the bed i’m not retraining decades of draw strokes for something I didn’t really see a benefit from. Also I hated carrying with a dot, one more thing to get hung up on the draw.

Newer shooters should probably shoot both and if the dots work stick to them so they don’t have to relearn anything. I can see the advantage, i’m just to far down the irons path.

Glad to hear it is not just me feeling this way. When I say things like that, I feel like a dinosaur. Agree about the eye thing. Having said that, in a Louis Awerbuck class, he did a drill in which. I took off my prescription glasses and just shot with my safety glasses. As long as front sight is less fuzzy than rear sight at home defense distances, your groups will still be good. Mine were, which was nice to see. And yes, if my eye do poop the bed, then I will look into a red dot as well.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

fwiw it was less about being a big deal and more just genuine shock. when I left the hobby you'd have thought .40 would have taken over in a year or two and they'd have stopped making 9mm.

I remember the hype. At the time, I was mostly shooting .45 ACP and 9 mm was a way to practice more for the .45 ACP. Still keep the .45 ACP as the primary bedside gun in the home should I not reach the shotgun in time. As I’ve gotten older, I become more and more cynical when the marketing hype starts. I think it is just to get folks to buy more, more, more rather than any meaningful difference. If you are around long enough, you will notice that rifles, pistol caliber carbines, and shotguns will rotate into what is in fashion for home defense. Why? Buy more, more, more.

 

[FriedChickies]

I remember the hype. At the time, I was mostly shooting .45 ACP and 9 mm was a way to practice more for the .45 ACP. Still keep the .45 ACP as the primary bedside gun in the home should I not reach the shotgun in time. As I’ve gotten older, I become more and more cynical when the marketing hype starts. I think it is just to get folks to buy more, more, more rather than any meaningful difference. If you are around long enough, you will notice that rifles, pistol caliber carbines, and shotguns will rotate into what is in fashion for home defense. Why? Buy more, more, more.

 

[Frank Castle]

I put red dots on my AR's but never on my pistols.

 

[Sheepdog1968]

There is a book called The Attack by Kurt Schlichter. It is fictional book that has an attack on American soil by sleeper cells who crossed the US Mexico border. When the USA decides to take revenge on the heads of the event, the calling card to indicate it was America without saying it was America was to kill them with .45 ACP caliber.

 

[hamdaddy]

As a lover of .40 and Glock 23's... Let me know what you want for one if you decide to sell!

 

[FriedChickies]

As a lover of .40 and Glock 23's... Let me know what you want for one if you decide to sell!

I sold mine for $550 about a month or two ago

 

[hamdaddy]

I sold mine for $550 about a month or two ago

well, dammit!

 

[FriedChickies]

I am a strong advocate of new shooters starting pistol training with irons. Once they're able to present with their sight aligned 99/100 times, consistently run a Bill and Failure/Mozambique under 4 seconds (all hits in alpha), B8 with 90+ points, start training with an optic. At that point they'll likely have their stance and grip in a solid place.

Then, training with an optic will force further improvement on fundamentals, especially grip and all the things necessary to better control manage recoil. Then it's working to get those drills in under 2 seconds and 95+, respectively.

Here is JJ Raccaza, former US Air Marshall, USPSA/IPSC Grand Master and world champion, debunking the myth irons are better at CCW distances:

Here is Isaac Lockwood running 1.20s Bill Drill with an optic:

JJ is insane. Ridiculous with irons.

He hosting classes in CA this coming winter.