4 killed, 10 injured in shooting during family celebration in California. They should start pulling ammo background check logs. That’ll solve the case

[couragewolf]

How does one "fix the society"?

Well 1% of the american population controlling 1/3 of the resources obviously isn't an ideal scenario for the other 99%. That's 52 trillion in todays money btw.

 

[adrkwan]

What part of the culture needs to be shifted and how do we do that?

The "how" is getting like-minded persons in decision making roles.

The "what" is multi-factorial but I would start with bringing back mental health funding. If the goal is preventative, you need to identify persons who are at risk of causing mass casuality events. Removing unstable people from the public until they are better is a great idea. Another idea is applying civil liability to parents/guardians for the actions of their kids. It incentivizes crappy parents to do the minimum of at least locking their weapons up or seeking professional help for their kids. Another thought is harsher enforcement of illegal possession of gun laws - we've recently brought back mandatory minimums for illegal gun possession.

You could also target the sources of guns used during the commission of crimes which are largely obtained outside of retail stores. https://bjs.ojp.gov/document/suficspi16.pdf

 

[couragewolf]

The "how" is getting like-minded persons in decision making roles.

The "what" is multi-factorial but I would start with bringing back mental health funding. If the goal is preventative, you need to identify persons who are at risk of causing mass casuality events. Removing unstable people from the public until they are better is a great idea. Another idea is applying civil liability to parents/guardians for the actions of their kids. It incentivizes crappy parents to do the minimum of at least locking their weapons up or seeking professional help for their kids. Another thought is harsher enforcement of illegal possession of gun laws - we've recently brought back mandatory minimums for illegal gun possession.

You could also target the sources of guns used during the commission of crimes which are largely obtained outside of retail stores. https://bjs.ojp.gov/document/suficspi16.pdf

I think going further step 1 is defining what's "wrong" with our society and agreeing on that.

 

[Deleted member 11316]

While this is true, sugar makes you crave more sugar though spikes and crashes, and activating the reward centers in the brain. Big junk food literally has test kitchens to see which combination of ingredients people will eat the most of..

so who’s fault is it after you explain that to someone?

 

[Ron Swanson]

While we are talking about bad food....SF just did this:

San Francisco sues Coca-Cola, Kellogg over ultra-processed foods.​

MSN

 

[DJD100]

Does any data backup the idea that you can scare people with laws into not conducting mass shootings?

I'm assuming there's no legal penalty that has any affect whatsoever on the frequency of mass shootings or reduces the likelihood.

I'd also assume economic conditions, opportunity, upward economic mobility, emotional health, and other societal factors have a far greater impact.

Fix the society, fix the mass shootings is my campaign promise. There is no law enforcement angle that's going to change this.

I beg to differ, because if nothing else happens with one strike you're out regarding violent crime where deadly force is a factor, there at minimum will be a lot fewer violent predators on the hunt after a while.

 

[couragewolf]

I beg to differ, because if nothing else happens with one strike you're out regarding violent crime where deadly force is a factor, there at minimum will be a lot fewer violent predators on the hunt after a while.

I think this is an emotionally deduced concept. I don’t think there’s evidence that people who do things like commit murder are even considering possible consequences when they do it and that somehow changing the consequences changes the likelihood of the act being committed.

 

[couragewolf]

What can’t the government protect us from

 

[DJD100]

I think this is an emotionally deduced concept. I don’t think there’s evidence that people who do things like commit murder are even considering possible consequences when they do it and that somehow changing the consequences changes the likelihood of the act being committed.

Again I differ, kids on a gang initiation, thugs hitting a lick, none of them want the death penalty, they just want to be jumped into the gang or to make some money etc, so I think those are the kinds of perps that will consider the consequences (plus they're mostly responsible for mass shootings, excepting political and religious extremists.

Affairs of the broken hearted or drunken brawls gone wrong maybe not so much, but those don't tend to be "mass shootings", rather they tend to be targeted aggravated assaults.

 

[Deleted member 16735]

Again I differ, kids on a gang initiation, thugs hitting a lick, none of them want the death penalty, they just want to be jumped into the gang or to make some money etc, so I think those are the kinds of perps that will consider the consequences (plus they're mostly responsible for mass shootings, excepting political and religious extremists.

Affairs of the broken hearted or drunken brawls gone wrong maybe not so much, but those don't tend to be "mass shootings", rather they tend to be targeted aggravated assaults.

Texas has the death penalty and a higher homicide rate than here and a ton of gangs. We got rid of the death penalty here and our homicide rate is significantly better than the 90s and have less gangs than then too. We need to be honest because clearly hot pockets and totinos pizza rolls are what causes gang violence.

 

[GoldensRule]

Well 1% of the american population controlling 1/3 of the resources obviously isn't an ideal scenario for the other 99%. That's 52 trillion in todays money btw.

So, how do you fix that without going full-on or t? There is a lot to be said for European style democratic socialism but that's a lot different than Marxian socialism or m.

 

[couragewolf]

So, how do you fix that without going full-on or t? There is a lot to be said for European style democratic socialism but that's a lot different than Marxian socialism or m.

Step 1 is people collectively needing to recognize and agree on the problem. Billionaires control Washington DC and billionaires do not represent the interests of the American people. Therefore Washington DC does not represent the will of the American people.

Once people collectively recognize that their votes are basically meaningless in the face of the lobbies we can start talking about how to fix it. Term limits, pay caps and abolishing lobbying, ranked choice voting are all starting points that can have meaningful differences in our problems collectively suffered by both left and right. Social medias algorithmic attention economy is also warping our brains and people simply don’t understand the technology or its impacts we need a campaign to truly educate people on how they are being harmed by these innocuous apps they’re all addicted to.

 

[Jimi Jah]

The revolution is on?

 

[GoldensRule]

The "how" is getting like-minded persons in decision making roles.

The "what" is multi-factorial but I would start with bringing back mental health funding. If the goal is preventative, you need to identify persons who are at risk of causing mass casuality events. Removing unstable people from the public until they are better is a great idea. Another idea is applying civil liability to parents/guardians for the actions of their kids. It incentivizes crappy parents to do the minimum of at least locking their weapons up or seeking professional help for their kids. Another thought is harsher enforcement of illegal possession of gun laws - we've recently brought back mandatory minimums for illegal gun possession.

You could also target the sources of guns used during the commission of crimes which are largely obtained outside of retail stores. https://bjs.ojp.gov/document/suficspi16.pdf

I certainly agree about the need for mental health care, in fact I am 100% in favor of across the board socialized medicine / single payer health care including mental and dental health.

The changes you are talking about are positioned closer to the mouth of the funnel than they are to the outlet. Don't get me wrong, they are reasonable changes but, I do think there needs to be a more direct way of intercepting people who are in crisis and about to execute a mass casualty event. Something that can be implemented more rapidly than building a massive new mental health system, educating enough professionals and finding a way to dramatically change the tax system to go after capitol gains, investment income and other non-regressive sources.

In my mind, one of the ways to do that is regular psych screening for everyone who owns or is purchasing firearms and ammunition. Let's say every two years and I think this is something that should be implemented on a federal level and apply to all 50 states. Also, there needs to be a way for owners to prove they are still in possession of all firearms registered to them or prove they have been legally transferred to other people. Lastly, there needs to be a way of accounting for the firearms of the deceased, right now, they seem to just vanish into the ether.

 

[couragewolf]

FWIW both the left and right in America are liberal s already they just disagree on how they want the socialism to work. The right wants socialism that stops you on the streets and checks if you’re a “real American” and hires as many enforcers of property laws as possible and massive jobs programs in agriculture and military and private insurance. The left wants Medicare, investments in education, the same military and police jobs programs and both seem to believe in infinite protection for American business failures using tax bailouts. There’s a reason “the left” never pushes single payer healthcare when they have the power to do so, or defunds the international war machine spending behemoth that magically loses trillions of dollars every time it’s audited. Just like there’s a reason Elon musk only looked for waste in the government in places that directly didn’t contribute to his business goals.

All the bickering that happens at the low level is just a big game of everyone playing pretend that they believe in free markets or decency in Washington or whatever it’s pretty transparent and pathetic if you’re looking at it all objectively.

 

[GoldensRule]

Step 1 is people collectively needing to recognize and agree on the problem. Billionaires control Washington DC and billionaires do not represent the interests of the American people. Therefore Washington DC does not represent the will of the American people.

Once people collectively recognize that their votes are basically meaningless in the face of the lobbies we can start talking about how to fix it. Term limits, pay caps and abolishing lobbying, ranked choice voting are all starting points that can have meaningful differences in our problems collectively suffered by both left and right. Social medias algorithmic attention economy is also warping our brains and people simply don’t understand the technology or its impacts we need a campaign to truly educate people on how they are being harmed by these innocuous apps they’re all addicted to.

I'm trying to not go too far astray from the goal of finding a solution to the domestic gun violence issue.

There are many, many things wrong with out country and in my minds-eye it all goes back to our constitution and the nearly impossible task of amending it. Certainly if amending the constitution were realistic, we as a nation could kill the "politics-as-an-avenue" to wealth for politicians. Lobbying is not really the issue, it's the money transfers and campaign finance laws and enforcement that are the issues and don't get me started on the military industrial complex, Eisenhower hit the nail squarely on the head about that topic. All of these things could be resolved if we could amend the constitution. At this point, 237 years after the constitution was adopted, it's about time for a Constitution II, a total re-write that takes into account all of the lessons some of us have learned. Even the slave owning Madison, Jefferson and Washington would be aghast that we haven't modified or improved upon their faded words, written on sheepskin so many, many years ago. At the very least article II section 1, the electoral college must be erased and article V, which covers the process for amending the constitution needs a total re-write.

 

[GoldensRule]

FWIW both the left and right in America are liberal s already they just disagree on how they want the socialism to work. The right wants socialism that stops you on the streets and checks if you’re a “real American” and hires as many enforcers of property laws as possible and massive jobs programs in agriculture and military and private insurance. The left wants Medicare, investments in education, the same military and police jobs programs and both seem to believe in infinite protection for American business failures using tax bailouts. There’s a reason “the left” never pushes single payer healthcare when they have the power to do so, or defunds the international war machine spending behemoth that magically loses trillions of dollars every time it’s audited. Just like there’s a reason Elon musk only looked for waste in the government in places that directly didn’t contribute to his business goals.

All the bickering that happens at the low level is just a big game of everyone playing pretend that they believe in free markets or decency in Washington or whatever it’s pretty transparent and pathetic if you’re looking at it all objectively.

From your description, it seems like you are saying the right wing are National s (e.g. 1930's Germany) and the Left are timid and greedy Democratic s.

 

[compulsivegungrabber]

Well, that's complicated, but on the law enforcement side...

a) Death Row for violent felonies involving the use of deadly force, whether or not anyone is actually killed. By pointing a gun or knife at someone and demanding something you are in effect implying you're willing to kill them, and that's enough for a called strike three IMO. In other words, if you use deadly force in commission of a violent felony you die.

b) Street gangs should be labeled domestic terrorist organizations along with the cartels, and then sic the feds on them rather than law abiding hard working DACA kids and other law abiding immigrants (currently a better use of resources along with securing the borders, and providing timely immigration services).

...though the economic side is another issue entirely.

There is no legal designation of domestic terrorist organization. Criminal gangs committing murders are nothing new, and we have laws on the books to deal with them. Research shows that neither longer sentences nor the death penalty have much of a deterrence effect on potential criminals. What does show an effect is certainty of being caught. But this certainly of being caught is going to be at the cost of privacy and freedom. With every liberal interpretation of freedom one will have to accept that the chaos that is part of the human condition is going to rear its ugly head.

 

[compulsivegungrabber]

From your description, it seems like you are saying the right wing are National s (e.g. 1930's Germany) and the Left are timid and greedy Democratic s.

I think he is more eluding to that it’s like a Vince McMahon WWE presentation, where the different factional mouthpieces get up and talk some crap they know will coincide with your beliefs, but their all ultimately under the same organizational umbrella, and you and your vote are nothing but a means to an end. But I admit I could be interjecting my own biases and beliefs onto this interpretation.

 

[Deleted member 11316]

Well 1% of the american population controlling 1/3 of the resources obviously isn't an ideal scenario for the other 99%. That's 52 trillion in today’s money btw.

Healthcare is free for spacex employees. Never talked about in the propaganda online.

Maybe you should take a vacation to Cuba for a couple weeks and see how it’s going over there. Seriously, go check it out.