Feedback AR Pistol Legal Qualification

[mattn175]

300 is better than 5.56 in under 10.5 barrels. It ballistic wise push that 5.56 out of a 12inch or more barrel it really opens up. Why I wanna change mine out to 12.5 or possibly 300 blackout and stay 10.5

Yeah that’s what I’m running 10.5 in barrel 300 blackout

 

[Walmart_AR15]

Terminal ballistic needs to be considered. ~ 2500 ft/s is min for 556/223 to be effective.

For short barrel, 300BO is better suited for HD. No excessive blast. People also overlook 350 Legend in short barrel platform; more power than 44 mag at muzzle.

 

[ar15robert]

Yeah that’s what I’m running 10.5 in barrel 300 blackout

Like said may go to that i reload so ammo ain’t an issue. Already have a 16 and 2 20s. Just wanna get the most out of each gun I have and for 10.5 there’s better options.

Already running an frt on the 10.5 and 16 so it makes em fun no doubt.

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

TBF, in 5.56 most stick to 10.5, 11.5" and 14" barrels. For smaller sizes under 10.5" is usually when you see the specialty calibers designed for suppressed cqb distances.

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[Plenty_Pack_556]

300 is better than 5.56 in under 10.5 barrels. It ballistic wise push that 5.56 out of a 12inch or more barrel it really opens up. Why I wanna change mine out to 12.5 or possibly 300 blackout and stay 10.5

7.62x39 is better than 300 bo if you don't have access to suppressors.

 

[ar15robert]

7.62x39 is better than 300 bo if you don't have access to suppressors.

Eventually i plan on getting a can but mainly for my 300 win mag.Correct me if wrong but to go to 300bo from 5.56 is it just a barrel swap and magazine follwers?If i go this route should be able to use supressor on either.Have shot 300 suppresed and it was pretty quiet what was more impressive as far as noise was guy had a 300bo in a bolt gun with sub sonic ammo i think a gamo air gun was louder

 

[Plenty_Pack_556]

Eventually i plan on getting a can but mainly for my 300 win mag.Correct me if wrong but to go to 300bo from 5.56 is it just a barrel swap and magazine follwers?If i go this route should be able to use supressor on either.Have shot 300 suppresed and it was pretty quiet what was more impressive as far as noise was guy had a 300bo in a bolt gun with sub sonic ammo i think a gamo air gun was louder

Yea just barrel swap and magazine/followers. Same for 7.62x39, well for mags you have to get new mags. You can fit about 9 rounds in a normal regular sized ar 556 mag though.

 

[AR15barrels]

What about threaded barrel on an ar pistol?Does that not apply if it has a fixed mag?

Correct.

 

[WojtekWeaponry]

most of this thread is giving me straight cancer, holy crap

 

[3ptzero]

You can not purchase a stripped lower AS A PISTOL unless the transfer is roster exempt.
That means you need to be roster exempt yourself or PPT it from a roster exempt person or getting it via an act-of-law (family) transfer.
You can't simply walk into a typical gun store and buy a stripped lower receiver from the store and ask them to transfer it to you as a pistol.

Is this required? Say if someone who is not roster exempt (LE, etc.) were to move from out of state and brought a stripped lower into CA and it was listed as an "other" on ATF 4473, shouldn't they still be able to register the lower as a semi auto handgun or sell/PPT it to someone and DROS it as a semi auto handgun?

 

[cali_jazz]

Is this required? Say if someone who is not roster exempt (LE, etc.) were to move from out of state and brought a stripped lower into CA and it was listed as an "other" on ATF 4473, shouldn't they still be able to register the lower as a semi auto handgun or sell/PPT it to someone and DROS it as a semi auto handgun?

That is my understanding. I have purchased several stripped lowers this way. They were registered as semi-auto handgun upon registering them in California.

 

[GLOCK]

Is this required? Say if someone who is not roster exempt (LE, etc.) were to move from out of state and brought a stripped lower into CA and it was listed as an "other" on ATF 4473, shouldn't they still be able to register the lower as a semi auto handgun or sell/PPT it to someone and DROS it as a semi auto handgun?

No “others” have to be rifles

 

[3ptzero]

No “others” have to be rifles

The options on ATF 4473 are long gun (rifle), hand gun (pistol), and other (receiver/frame). My understanding is that the stripped lower is purchased as an "other" by the original buyer and then registered or PPT'd as a semi auto handgun in CA.

 

[cali_jazz]

Here's what AI says:

Under California Penal Code section 27560, new residents must report all firearms they bring into the state within 60 days. This is done using the New Resident Report of Firearm Ownership (BOF 4010A) or via the CFARS website.
Registering as a Handgun

When completing the form, you can select the "Handgun" category for a receiver. However, the California Department of Justice (DOJ) has recently become more restrictive regarding stripped lowers:

• "Semi-Auto Pistol" Designation: Many residents report that the DOJ now requires a firearm to be a "fully functional" firearm to be registered.
• Proof of Configuration: If the DOJ requests photos (which they increasingly do), a stripped lower may be rejected as a "handgun" because it lacks the features of a complete pistol.
• Recommendation: To ensure successful registration as a handgun, many owners choose to build the lower into a CA-compliant pistol configuration (e.g., using a fixed-magazine device like a CompMag) before submitting the report.

 

[AR15barrels]

Is this required? Say if someone who is not roster exempt (LE, etc.) were to move from out of state and brought a stripped lower into CA and it was listed as an "other" on ATF 4473, shouldn't they still be able to register the lower as a semi auto handgun or sell/PPT it to someone and DROS it as a semi auto handgun?

"Others" are long guns and can not become pistols either federally or in CA state if the long gun was a rifle.
Once a long gun, always a long gun.
CA considers any pistol made from a rifle to be an SBR.

 

[3ptzero]

"Others" are long guns and can not become pistols either federally or in CA state if the long gun was a rifle.
Once a long gun, always a long gun.
CA considers any pistol made from a rifle to be an SBR.

Now I'm confused. "Other" on ATF 4473 calls out receiver/frame. "Long Gun" calls out rifle or shotgun and has it's own option to select on the form as well. Why would the form have both options if other = long gun?

 

[Coolguy]

Penal Code section 30515

Notwithstanding Section 30510, “assault weapon” also means any of the following:

(1) A semiautomatic, centerfire rifle ...
...


(4) A semiautomatic pistol that does not have a fixed magazine but has any one of the following:

(A) A threaded barrel, capable of accepting a flash suppressor, forward handgrip, or silencer.

(B) A second handgrip.

(C) A shroud that is attached to, or partially or completely encircles, the barrel that allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel.

(D) The capacity to accept a detachable magazine at some location outside of the pistol grip.

(5) A semiautomatic pistol with a fixed magazine that has the capacity to accept more than 10 rounds.

I remember once upon a time it was thought that having a hand guard on an AR or Ak pistol fell into the category of a barrel shroud, and dealers were selling them without hand guards. It looked funny, but the thought was a hand guard functioned the same way as described in the Penal Code that it "allows the bearer to fire the weapon without burning the bearer’s hand, except a slide that encloses the barrel."

I'm not sure how that ever went away and hand guards started appearing on AR and Ak pistols again. Did the DOJ issue an opinion or ruling that I missed?

 

[AR15barrels]

Now I'm confused. "Other" on ATF 4473 calls out receiver/frame. "Long Gun" calls out rifle or shotgun and has it's own option to select on the form as well. Why would the form have both options if other = long gun?

Maybe I am confusing CA dros terms with federal terms.
Do as you like.
In CA transfers or registrations, a federal "other" can only ever be a long gun.
So if that person brings the "other" reciever and then registers it with the state as an "other firearm" within the required 60day window, it can then no longer be used to build a pistol.
The frame needs to be registered as a pistol frame to build a pistol in CA because if it's an "other", it becomes an SBR when you install a pistol barrel on it due to how the CA SBR rules read.

 

[cali_jazz]

Maybe I am confusing CA dros terms with federal terms.
Do as you like.
In CA transfers or registrations, a federal "other" can only ever be a long gun.
So if that person brings the "other" reciever and then registers it with the state as an "other firearm" within the required 60day window, it can then no longer be used to build a pistol.
The frame needs to be registered as a pistol frame to build a pistol in CA because if it's an "other", it becomes an SBR when you install a pistol barrel on it due to how the CA SBR rules read.

I believe you are.

The legality of moving to California and registering your firearms as a new resident is governed primarily by
California Penal Code (PC) sections 17000 and 27560.

Relevant Penal Codes

• PC 17000: Defines a "Personal Firearm Importer" as any person who moves into California with a firearm acquired outside the state with the intent to own or possess it within California.
• PC 27560: Mandates that a Personal Firearm Importer must, within 60 days of bringing a firearm into the state, either:
  • Submit a New Resident Report of Firearm Ownership (Form BOF 4010A) and pay a $19 fee.
  • Sell or transfer the firearm through a California licensed firearms dealer.
  • Surrender the firearm to a local law enforcement agency.
• PC 30515: Outlines the Assault Weapon definitions. For an AR-style pistol to be legal, it must not have "assault weapon" features unless it has a fixed magazine.
• PC 32000: Generally prohibits the sale of handguns not on the state's "Roster of Certified Handguns." However, PC 17000 importers are exempt from the roster requirement for firearms they already owned before
• Yes, you can register a lower receiver originally recorded federally as "Other" (stripped receiver) as a semi-automatic pistol when you move to California, provided you meet specific configuration and reporting requirements.
  
  Key Requirements for Registration
  To successfully register the receiver as a pistol, it must be in a compliant configuration before you enter the state or immediately upon arrival:
  • Physical Configuration: The receiver must be built into a fully functional, semi-automatic pistol configuration. California Department of Justice (DOJ) has reportedly rejected registration for "stripped" lowers because they do not meet the definition of a functional firearm.
  • Assault Weapon Compliance: To be legal in California, a semi-automatic AR-style pistol must have a fixed magazine (e.g., using a CompMag or an AR Maglock). It cannot have a detachable magazine if it has "assault weapon" features like a threaded barrel or a second handgrip.
  • Federal Record: The receiver must have been originally transferred on your federal 4473 form as an "Other," "Receiver," or "Pistol." If it was ever recorded as a "Rifle" or "Long Gun," it cannot legally be registered as a pistol in California.
    
    The "Other" to "Pistol" Transition
    The legality of registering a lower that was federally "Other" as a "Pistol" in California stems from the fact that California law does not have a specific "Other" category for registration; you must select Handgun, Rifle, or Shotgun on the BOF 4010A form.
    Because federal law allows a receiver originally transferred as "Other" to be built into either a rifle or a pistol (provided it has never been a rifle first), you are legally declaring its configuration as a pistol upon entry to California. To ensure the DOJ accepts the registration, the firearm should be in its complete, California-compliant pistol configuration (including a fixed magazine) when you file the report
    
    
• To ensure your AR-style pistol is compliant with
  California Penal Code (PC) 30515, it must have a fixed magazine that cannot be removed without disassembling the firearm action.
  
  Legal Definition of "Fixed Magazine"
  Under 11 CCR § 5471(p), a fixed magazine is defined as an ammunition feeding device contained in, or permanently attached to, a firearm such that it cannot be removed without disassembly of the firearm action.
  • Disassembly of the Action: For an AR-15 style pistol, this specifically means the magazine cannot be released while the upper and lower receivers are joined together. You must partially separate them (tilt the upper away from the lower) to drop the magazine.
  • Capacity Limit: The fixed magazine must not have a capacity of more than 10 rounds.
    
    Compliance Device Options
    The California Department of Justice (DOJ) does not maintain an "official approval list" for specific brands, but several popular methods are widely used to meet the "disassembly of action" requirement:
  • AR Maglock & Kingpin: A mechanical kit that replaces the standard magazine release. It physicaly prevents the button from being pressed until the receivers are slightly separated by a quick-release rear takedown pin (the "Kingpin").
  • CompMag: An internally side-loading magazine that is semi-permanently locked into the magwell. It cannot be removed without opening the action and unscrewing a locking plate, meeting the "contained in" requirement.
  • Other Fixed Kits: Devices like the Hogue Freedom Pin or Juggernaut Tactical Hellfighter also require action disassembly to release the magazine.
    
    Documenting Your Registration
    When you submit your New Resident Report of Firearm Ownership (BOF 4010A), you must accurately describe the completed firearm:
  • Firearm Type: Select "Handgun".
  • Category: Select "Semi-Automatic".
  • Comments/Description: While not strictly required by the form's basic fields, many owners use the "Comments" section to explicitly state the firearm is in a "Fixed Magazine Configuration" to demonstrate intent to comply with PC 30515.
  • Keep Records: Maintain photos of your compliant build and receipts for the compliance parts (like the AR Maglock or CompMag) as evidence of its legal status upon entry to the state.
  • The Legal Status of Stripped Frames
    • Registration Restriction: Per the California Department of Justice (DOJ), stripped lowers cannot be registered because they are not "fully functional".
    • The "Pistol" Catch: In California, if you transfer a stripped lower through an FFL, it is automatically registered as a long gun (rifle). Once it is a long gun, it can never legally become a pistol.
    • New Resident Exception: As a new resident under PC 17000, you have a unique window. You are reporting firearms you already own. If you built that "Other" receiver into a pistol configuration before entering California, you can register it as a "Handgun" on the BOF 4010A form.
  • 
    Why "Stripped" is Risky for Registration
    If you attempt to register a truly stripped frame (no parts attached) as a pistol:
    1. DOJ Rejection: The DOJ often rejects these applications or requests photos to prove the firearm is a "fully functional, semi-automatic" pistol.
    2. Required Information: The registration form requires you to list a barrel length and caliber. A stripped frame has neither, making it impossible to fill out accurately without building it first.
    3. Physical Presence: To be legally considered a "Personal Firearm Importer" of a pistol, the item must be a pistol when it crosses the border.
  • 
    The Safer Path to Legality
    To ensure the registration is accepted under PC 27560, most experts recommend:
    • Assemble the lower: At a minimum, install a Lower Parts Kit (LPK) and a fixed-magazine device (like a CompMag) so it is no longer "stripped".
    • Complete the Build: Have an upper receiver attached (even if temporarily) to satisfy the "fully functional" requirement and provide the mandatory barrel length and caliber for the CFARS report.
      
  • A stripped lower can be transferred as a pistol via an intra-familial transfer, but the process varies significantly depending on whether the family member lives in California or in another state.
    
    1. Interstate Intra-Familial Transfer (Out-of-State Family)
    If your parent or grandparent lives in another state and wants to gift you a stripped lower as a pistol, this is a common way to acquire "off-roster" frames in California.
    FFL Requirement: Federal law requires that interstate transfers go through a California Federal Firearms Licensee (FFL).
    • Pistol Designation: The out-of-state family member must explicitly gift it as a handgun/pistol. Because intra-familial transfers are exempt from California's "Handgun Roster," the FFL can process it (DROS) as a semi-automatic pistol even if it is just a stripped frame.
    • Important: You must find an FFL willing to facilitate this. Some dealers may refuse to DROS a stripped lower as a pistol because California's system typically defaults receivers to "long guns".

 

[Skilly]

Maybe I am confusing CA dros terms with federal terms.
Do as you like.
In CA transfers or registrations, a federal "other" can only ever be a long gun.
So if that person brings the "other" reciever and then registers it with the state as an "other firearm" within the required 60day window, it can then no longer be used to build a pistol.
The frame needs to be registered as a pistol frame to build a pistol in CA because if it's an "other", it becomes an SBR when you install a pistol barrel on it due to how the CA SBR rules read.

I believe an 'other' that was a pistol, can be reg'd as a pistol. The core of what you are saying is correct - a rifle can never be anything else; I think its just confusing the way you are saying it.