Poll Best Handgun for Elderly New Shooter

[cowboy_]

Beretta PX4. The rotating barrel really cuts down on felt recoil.

I was gonna say that but it is very good choice!

 

[RustVendor]

Thanks, learned something new today

OK after looking into it the 380 still has less muzzle energy than the lightest 9mm factory loads, you would have to replace the recoil spring on your 9mm to get much lower. But even when you look at the defensive loads the data is pretty bad, it seems to either expand or penetrate and many of the "defensive" loads tested didn't work at all. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP

But even the Hornady 100 grain "lite" which is one of the mega light 9mm defensive loads is only 112 power factor which is ridiculously light. Ive loaded 9mm that light on accident and it's ridiculously soft.

 

[Maaartin]

The standard metal m&p is aluminum and not heavier than the polymer and arguably has more recoil "feel" than the polymer.

Thanks for pointing it out.

The metal version is ~2-3oz heavier so I wanted to let OP know in case he wasn’t aware of its existence.

Sure it’s not a Beretta 92FS, but I thought the added weight would make a sensible difference.

However I have only had both variants of the M&P in hand but have not shot them. I made assumptions based only on handling not shooting so your experience is probably more valuable if you have.

I guess the bottom line for OP is: rent a bunch and shoot them.

 

[Gawernator]

OK after looking into it the 380 still has less muzzle energy than the lightest 9mm factory loads, you would have to replace the recoil spring on your 9mm to get much lower. But even when you look at the defensive loads the data is pretty bad, it seems to either expand or penetrate and many of the "defensive" loads tested didn't work at all. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP

But even the Hornady 100 grain "lite" which is one of the mega light 9mm defensive loads is only 112 power factor which is ridiculously light. Ive loaded 9mm that light on accident and it's ridiculously soft.

yeah .380 sucks compared to 9mm

 

[RustVendor]

Thanks for pointing it out.

The metal version is ~2-3oz heavier so I wanted to let OP know in case he wasn’t aware of its existence.

Sure it’s not a Beretta 92FS, but I thought the added weight would make a sensible difference.

However I have only had both variants of the M&P in hand but have not shot them. I made assumptions based only on handling not shooting so your experience is probably more valuable if you have.

I guess the bottom line for OP is: rent a bunch and shoot them.

I only shot the metal once but I have several polymer versions and it's nice but I think they are basically just very similar in recoil, the 2 oz is negated by the aluminum transferring more of the "feel" of the recoil so it's kind of just a toss up with a surprising number of people even saying the polymer is softer. The 5" slide makes a big difference though that thing is magic.

 

[SamHenry]

Older lady shooting indoors, no ear pro, maybe in the dark?

Lightweight, high capacity 22lr revolver.

Smith 617 or 43C if she wants to lose the hammer. Trigger is pretty heavy DAO out of the box.

Not enough stopping power? Eh, when a little old lady starts blasting at you in an enclosed space I don’t think dudes are doing the math on whether they can take a couple of rounds to the chest.

Why a revolver over semi automatic? No safety, no slide, no jamming, just BLAMing.

 

[couragewolf]

Older lady shooting indoors, no ear pro, maybe in the dark?

Lightweight, high capacity 22lr revolver.

Smith 617 or 43C if she wants to lose the hammer. Trigger is pretty heavy DAO out of the box.

Not enough stopping power? Eh, when a little old lady starts blasting at you in an enclosed space I don’t think dudes are doing the math on whether they can take a couple of rounds to the chest.

Why a revolver over semi automatic? No safety, no slide, no jamming, just BLAMing.

I don't know why people are so loathe to recommend .22's, but old people are great at keeping things clean and tinkering with widgets which is sort of the primary reason not to recommend a .22.

I vote .22.

 

[Gawernator]

OK after looking into it the 380 still has less muzzle energy than the lightest 9mm factory loads, you would have to replace the recoil spring on your 9mm to get much lower. But even when you look at the defensive loads the data is pretty bad, it seems to either expand or penetrate and many of the "defensive" loads tested didn't work at all. https://www.luckygunner.com/labs/self-defense-ammo-ballistic-tests/#380ACP

But even the Hornady 100 grain "lite" which is one of the mega light 9mm defensive loads is only 112 power factor which is ridiculously light. Ive loaded 9mm that light on accident and it's ridiculously soft.

wow! Really cool data with photos. Look how many of the hollowpoints didn't expand at all. I didn't know 380 sucked that much

 

[Gawernator]

Older lady shooting indoors, no ear pro, maybe in the dark?

Lightweight, high capacity 22lr revolver.

Smith 617 or 43C if she wants to lose the hammer. Trigger is pretty heavy DAO out of the box.

Not enough stopping power? Eh, when a little old lady starts blasting at you in an enclosed space I don’t think dudes are doing the math on whether they can take a couple of rounds to the chest.

Why a revolver over semi automatic? No safety, no slide, no jamming, just BLAMing.

Agreed this is a situation where a revolver makes sense. Easy to shoot and goes bang no slide racking. Realistically she will shoot the gun, maybe do one class and never shoot it again.

 

[RustVendor]

wow! Really cool data with photos. Look how many of the hollowpoints didn't expand at all. I didn't know 380 sucked that much

it's pretty bad, I can see making an argument for a ccw when you are wearing a bikini or something if you need it that small but there's no reason to use it in a home defense gun. With 380 this bad I would literally rather use a tazer than 22lr. I honestly think it's offensive to assume a person is so inept and weak as to need 22lr.

 

[Gawernator]

it's pretty bad, I can see making an argument for a ccw when you are wearing a bikini or something if you need it that small but there's no reason to use it in a home defense gun. With 380 this bad I would literally rather use a tazer than 22lr. I honestly think it's offensive to assume a person is so inept and weak as to need 22lr.

Yeah a .38spl revolver would be better. .22lr is for squirrels. Very offensive to suggest to use that because you're an invalid lol

 

[couragewolf]

Yeah a .38spl revolver would be better. .22lr is for squirrels. Very offensive to suggest to use that because you're an invalid lol

I always just imagine what it would feel like to get hit with .22lr in the face vs .380 and I honestly don't ever come to the conclusion I'd be stoked about either

 

[rhoma1]

45-70 derringer

 

[RustVendor]

I always just imagine what it would feel like to get hit with .22lr in the face vs .380 and I honestly don't ever come to the conclusion I'd be stoked about either

Yeah but shot placement matters much less if you have a stronger load, that's kind of the whole thing is that 22 can hurt someone but a bonafide defense round has a much better chance of stopping them. You are legally using deadly force in both circumstances and unless someone is legitimately handicapped there's not a good reason not to use a more effective cartridge. You don't aim for the face in either circumstance though you aim for center mass where there's clothes but a higher chance of hitting. that's without getting into the fact that rimfire is less reliable to ignite out of the gate.

 

[Gawernator]

I always just imagine what it would feel like to get hit with .22lr in the face vs .380 and I honestly don't ever come to the conclusion I'd be stoked about either

that's a big if, if the person can't even shoot a 9mm why are we expecting them to be so accurate under life and death stress

 

[dvoncock]

If you're not decided on 9mm, I'd recommend the Girsan MC14T which is in .380.
Tip up barrel, so no slide racking needed.
It's double action on first shot, so maybe less intimidating for new gun owner.

The Girsan MC14T is my recommendation too. Aside from the intimidation factor, racking slides can be very difficult for anyone with limited hand strength or dexterity due to age, injury or arthritis. That’s why tip designs are so good for elderly shooters. The Girsan, as opposed to Beretta’s .22, .25, and .32 models with that feature, comes in a reasonably useful caliber, .380, that is still very mild in a mid-sized handgun.

 

[dvoncock]

I don't think modern firearms will really get much easier to rack than that just due to physics

That’s why so many elderly shooters prefer revolvers and tip up designs.

 

[32383]

I don't know why people are so loathe to recommend .22's, but old people are great at keeping things clean and tinkering with widgets which is sort of the primary reason not to recommend a .22.

I vote .22.

My 2 cents is that .22s are certainly better than nothing, and I would 100% use one for the first of live fire for a new shooter, esp. an elderly woman.
Just let them fire the gun and get used to the whole feel and concept of what they are doing. Don't even put a target up, just get used to the experience and work up from there.
For self defense, I think the fault with the .22 is that a BG wont even know they've been shot until after they've killed you.
Unless you get a really lucky shot, they may bleed out later but their damage has been done. Of course there could be scenarios where the mere sight of the gun or being shot at terminates the situation but Id like to have more energy to dump on the target if needed.

 

[32383]

The Girsan MC14T is my recommendation too. Aside from the intimidation factor, racking slides can be very difficult for anyone with limited hand strength or dexterity due to age, injury or arthritis. That’s why tip designs are so good for elderly shooters. The Girsan, as opposed to Beretta’s .22, .25, and .32 models with that feature, comes in a reasonably useful caliber, .380, that is still very mild in a mid-sized handgun.

I checked out one of those. Seemed decently made. It was also pretty big which might be an advantage for some especially in a blow-back pistol with their snappy recoil. I tried to rack the slide and was surprised at how hard it was and there not a lot to grab. I slipped, and the rear sight took a chunk out of a knuckle. I realize the tip up is there to preclude the need for racking but it could be needed.

 

[dvoncock]

I checked out one of those. Seemed decently made. It was also pretty big which might be an advantage for some especially in a blow-back pistol with their snappy recoil. I tried to rack the slide and was surprised at how hard it was and there not a lot to grab. I slipped, and the rear sight took a chunk out of a knuckle. I realize the tip up is there to preclude the need for racking but it could be needed.

Girsan seems to make sturdy, if not pretty, firearms. I have a lot of experience with the Beretta 950 and Alleycat (aka, 3032 now) and can think of a couple failure modes where racking the slide might be necessary. But, in my practical shooting experience with them, I’ve been able to clear every FTE and FTE by tipping up the barrel and/or dropping the mag.