Can a Cheap 2011 Beat the Sand Viper (lol yes)

[Gawernator]

tl;dr the cheap 2011 matched or exceeded the performance in testing. Funny

 

[Hit Factor]

Upgraded Prodigy FTW . . .

 

[Brandon Breeze]

As with anything the shooter is more important than the firearm. Additionally, can a Pinto beat a Ferrari? Absolutely, if you put the right parts on it.

 

[Gawernator]

As with anything the shooter is more important than the firearm. Additionally, can a Pinto beat a Ferrari? Absolutely, if you put the right parts on it.

Stock for stock guns, no parts added that we could see. Just shows the real life results

 

[Brandon Breeze]

Stock for stock guns, no parts added that we could see. Just shows the real life results

Wait until they find out the same thing can happen with just about any firearm

 

[Hindsight]

They admitted they’re not really 2011 shooters, so I’ll assume it wasn’t intentional, but the TTI stuff is a pretty bad example of value to performance for 2011s. It’s rebranded white label stuff produced by UGW for TTI out of AZ, marked up heavily due to the Hollywood tax and JW associations.

Not to mention, a lot of what you pay for with 2011s includes the underlying build quality, customer service/aftermarket support, and other intangibles.

Should’ve done a prodigy against something from RCD for a more apples-apples value based discussion.

But, agree that shooters on the low end and the high end will notice the most difference with 2011s. One because it forgives bad fundamentals and gives them a trigger unlike what they’re probably used to, the other because high level shooters can actually squeeze out some or more of the performance capability 2011s offer you over typical polymer striker fired stuff. For anyone in between the performance difference is less and more is about whether you like how it shoots, whether you enjoy shooting it, if it makes you want to train more as a result of owning it, etc.

There are a lot of misconceptions and mysticism around 2011s that people don’t understand if they’re just coming into it or haven’t been immersed in it a long time. Social media has just taken a relativity niche high performance platform and made it some aspirational gun to own, which is sad.

 

[Gawernator]

Wait until they find out the same thing can happen with just about any firearm

You've just explained the point of the video. 99.5% of shooters wouldn't get a performance gain. As with any sport only the elite can really extract the best of the machinery. Better to save the money for ammo and training. But just like buying a Ducati V4R if you have the money and you like it then enjoy!

 

[NorCALSpeed]

Most people likely can't tell a different but Honest Outlaw and PewView both bought Sand Vipers and no one owns and shoots more 2011s than those guys. That tells me there probably are some subtle things that all add up to a superior experience to many cheaper (but not cheap) guns. Like with cars, watches, food, clothing, it takes experience to truly notice the slight differences.

 

[Gawernator]

Most people likely can't tell a different but Honest Outlaw and PewView both bought Sand Vipers and no one owns and shoots more 2011s than those guys. That tells me there probably are some subtle things that all add up to a superior experience to many cheaper (but not cheap) guns. Like with cars, watches, food, clothing, it takes experience to truly notice the slight differences.

I agree if you're a guy shooting 3x a week you would notice

 

[NorCALSpeed]

I also think the Sand Viper is a very good looking gun in both shape and finish. It stands out in a market flooded with rectangular 2011s. TTI also prices in the celebrity factor for max profit. Controversy aside, cashing in on fame is as common as sand in a desert so we shouldn't fault that. I'd buy one but I can't justify spending that much on a gun given my skills. It also wouldn't fit my financial plan.

 

[Brandon Breeze]

You've just explained the point of the video. 99.5% of shooters wouldn't get a performance gain. As with any sport only the elite can really extract the best of the machinery. Better to save the money for ammo and training. But just like buying a Ducati V4R if you have the money and you like it then enjoy!

For sure, I didn't buy the SV because I thought it would offer any more performance than anything I already owned. I bought it because it's one of the coolest pistols that has been made until this point (IMO). I absolutely love to shoot it, which is why I do so much, but it likely only gives a 5-10% advantage over a pimped out Glock with a comp. And those in a normal state would cost about half of what the Prodigy does.

I did grow up around 1911's though, so I am slightly biased to the controls of 1911/2011's, and they are nice to shoot.

The shooter will make more difference than the gun in the majority of scenarios.

If you give Christian Sailer a High Point, he's still gonna kick your butt even if you have his custom built Open gun.

 

[Gawernator]

For sure, I didn't buy the SV because I thought it would offer any more performance than anything I already owned. I bought it because it's one of the coolest pistols that has been made until this point (IMO). I absolutely love to shoot it, which is why I do so much, but it likely only gives a 5-10% advantage over a pimped out Glock with a comp. And those in a normal state would cost about half of what the Prodigy does.

I did grow up around 1911's though, so I am slightly biased to the controls of 1911/2011's, and they are nice to shoot.

The shooter will make more difference than the gun in the majority of scenarios.

If you give Christian Sailer a High Point, he's still gonna kick your butt even if you have his custom built Open gun.

Right just like he can be on a brand new liter bike with full electronics suite and I can pass him like he's standing still on a 2011 Ninja 250 lol

 

[Brandon Breeze]

Right just like he can be on a brand new liter bike with full electronics suite and I can pass him like he's standing still on a 2011 Ninja 250 lol

Exactly. I did similar things to liter bikes when running my Buell at the track. They would come whizzing by in the straight, then I zoom right by them in the corner

 

[Gawernator]

Exactly. I did similar things to liter bikes when running my Buell at the track. They would come whizzing by in the straight, then I zoom right by them in the corner

Don't see many of those, especially now

 

[Brandon Breeze]

Don't see many of those, especially now

I had several Buells, EBR & VROD's not long ago. Widdled it down to one Buell. XB12S Lightning. My favorite bike I've owned so far. The top speed limitation keeps me out of trouble. Only bike I ever got tickets on was my EBR. 3 tickets on it in 2 years. My other bikes? 0 tickets in decades

 

[Hindsight]

Most people likely can't tell a different but Honest Outlaw and PewView both bought Sand Vipers and no one owns and shoots more 2011s than those guys. That tells me there probably are some subtle things that all add up to a superior experience to many cheaper (but not cheap) guns. Like with cars, watches, food, clothing, it takes experience to truly notice the slight differences.

I don’t think you meant this literally, but I get the gist of what you’re saying. Even on YouTube there are plenty of guys who own more 2011s that both of them combined such as the weapon collective and possibly 2A-n-LA. In terms of shooting volume, some competitive shooters on the platform probably crest well over 100k+ rounds a year and 1/3 to half of them are on 2011s depending on whether they also travel around teaching and if their students are more LEO/SOF guys that year or more civilian/competitive shooters.

In terms of everyday owners/users, there are people I’ve met on this site and just in CA in general that have several millions of dollars in just 2011s. It’s pretty insane, but they’re the collectors driving a lot of the upper end of the market and also the people I regularly sell stuff to, so I don’t mind personally.

 

[Gawernator]

I don’t think you meant this literally, but I get the gist of what you’re saying. Even on YouTube there are plenty of guys who own more 2011s that both of them combined such as the weapon collective and possibly 2A-n-LA. In terms of shooting volume, some competitive shooters on the platform probably crest well over 100k+ rounds a year and 1/3 to half of them are on 2011s depending on whether they also travel around teaching and if their students are more LEO/SOF guys that year or more civilian/competitive shooters.

In terms of everyday owners/users, there are people I’ve met on this site and just in CA in general that have several millions of dollars in just 2011s. It’s pretty insane, but they’re the collectors driving a lot of the upper end of the market and also the people I regularly sell stuff to, so I don’t mind personally.

How do you have millions in 2011's tf - that's 143 $7k 2011's

 

[Hindsight]

How do you have millions in 2011's tf - that's 143 $7k 2011's

They usually have multiples of the same gun so they have a set and also $7k is around where the mid or upper mid tier is (all kind of subjective). There are 2011s that go for above $12k-$15k from custom shops or drops from infinity/SVI depending on the material, whether it’s an open gun, etc.

And that’s also just straight retail value. Many of them are technically worth a lot more than their retail value - kind of like the grey market with luxury watches. There’s a markup based on exclusivity and cutting the line to get what you want.

Most of the $10k+ guns go for easily double on the secondary market (sometimes more as we’re in CA and demand is high, but supply is more limited). For example, a Calvin’s Cherry infinity recently sold for like $75k and another for nearly the same.

People have some truly ridiculous collections. Like full custom vaults or even in one case, a separate building on what I can only describe as their “compound” lol. An entire separate building dedicated to just their gun collection and showcasing it.

 

[NorCALSpeed]

I don’t think you meant this literally, but I get the gist of what you’re saying. Even on YouTube there are plenty of guys who own more 2011s that both of them combined such as the weapon collective and possibly 2A-n-LA. In terms of shooting volume, some competitive shooters on the platform probably crest well over 100k+ rounds a year and 1/3 to half of them are on 2011s depending on whether they also travel around teaching and if their students are more LEO/SOF guys that year or more civilian/competitive shooters.

In terms of everyday owners/users, there are people I’ve met on this site and just in CA in general that have several millions of dollars in just 2011s. It’s pretty insane, but they’re the collectors driving a lot of the upper end of the market and also the people I regularly sell stuff to, so I don’t mind personally.

1. Fair. Competitive shooters might shoot more than PewView and HO but I'd wager they own more AND shoot more. Both those guys have huge gun rooms with dozens of everything. There are probably richer collectors that own more but from what I know of uber wealthy, they rarely have time to enjoy their purchases as much. It's depreciating returns.
2. Are the collectors you know "driving up the market" because they own redundant examples and they're fluffing the market themselves? This happens in the collector car world a lot.

 

[Hindsight]

1. Fair. Competitive shooters might shoot more than PewView and HO but I'd wager they own more AND shoot more. Both those guys have huge gun rooms with dozens of everything. There are probably richer collectors that own more but from what I know of uber wealthy, they rarely have time to enjoy their purchases as much. It's depreciating returns.
2. Are the collectors you know "driving up the market" because they own redundant examples and they're fluffing the market themselves? This happens in the collector car world a lot.

1. Depends. I don't claim to know everyone in the high end 2011 space and a lot of it is back room deals or what you hear or see through your existing connections or friends. There are certainly some collectors I do know however that do own more and shoot more than either of them. A lot of them are big 2A enthusiasts that essentially retired early and shoot full time on their own private land and ranges. Somewhere in the ballpark of 1k rounds on average per day, sometimes more sometimes less and not all handguns/9mm. They usually have a pretty vast interest in antique, modern rifles, long range stuff, race 2011s, etc.

2. Some, but it's more rare than you'd assume. At least some of the more visible stuff. It's actually seemingly more brokers and shops that have "friend of the manufacturer" status, people flipping them who aren't planning to shoot or own them themselves anyways, etc. There is some of that in the high end 2011 space, but most of the people getting them tend to keep them for themselves unless they're trading it along with cash or other guns to another such collector.

This is just my experience and knowledge though, YMMV and there are probably several dozen sub-groups or people I don't know of or about.