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CZ Shadow 2 On Roster?

Tere_Hanges said:
For all the peeps that want another striker-fired pistol. I've got every striker-fired pistol I want. I'm more interested in full-size polymer framed hammer-fired pistols.
Click to expand...
To be fair, I want all the pistols. Hammer or no hammer, haha.
 
I love the shadow 2 but the original TS still holds a special place in my heart. In my opinion it is the best on roster pistol

CZ-Shadow-2s-together.jpg


CZ-Tactical-Sport-Family-10-2022-Resized.jpg
 
Last edited:
As a CZ enthusiast, I feel quite hard to believe that Shadow 2 would make into the roster. Here are my thoughts, first a technical analysis, and then real-world considerations. I was surprised discussions on these angles rarely happen on forums that I was browsing.

Technical Analysis

Drop Safety Tests

In case you don't know that, Shadow 2 (and compact version) is not drop safe. Among the roster's drop tests, on "the on muzzle, barrel vertical drop", at the moment muzzle touching ground, the firing pin will continue moves forward since there's no FPB preventing that, and strikes the primer if dropped from high enough.

Besides, if the test is not under safety on nor hammer down condition, there's chance that "the exposed hammer/rearmost point of the device or handgun drop" test would fail since hammer have chance to down upon touching the ground.

That's why Shadow 2 is strictly a competition pistol, but not designed for carry or service.

LCI

There are two potential, relatively easier ways to add a LCI.

i) add a small indicator on the top of slide, just after the barrel and ejection port, which requires cut off some slide and add 3 parts. This design ever appeared on CZ 97B before, but let's remember that CZ 97B has been discontinued for a couple of years. Such design also showed up on some online Shadow 2 parts diagrams showing as part #47, 48, and 49; however, afaik it never implemented in any 9mm CZ75 models.

ii) alternatively, create an "extended" extractor and use it as LCI, or add an extra thin sheet stacked with extractor as LCI. Either way need to modify extractor, and test reliabilities.

Magazine Disconnect
First of all, I never saw mag disc being implemented in any pistol in the CZ75 family, including other variants such as Tanfoglio, etc. I may be wrong, and if so, please point that out.

It's a very interesting topic to discuss how to make this happen. In CZ75 design, trigger brings trigger bar to push the sear directly releasing hammer, where trigger bar is the main component that surrounds magazine, while both trigger and sear cage components are too far away from mag. The feasible way might be blocking the trigger bar from moving while magazine is unloaded.

The trigger bar could be blocked by adding a tiny blocker piece at the front or the back of the magazine tunnel (some call it magwell but just avoid confusing.) This shall more likely be achieved on the back though, since i) any obstacle in front of mag tunnel may interfere with ammo, ii) the front of trigger bar has round shape therefore is not reliable to block; iii) the tunnel's front side is crowded with mag release, trigger bar spring and its huge screw.

Make it on the back is also not easy, it will need adding a blocker piece, a lift spring to make it blocking, and at least a pin to fix the piece and the spring, as well as
drilling a hole in frame to hold the pin, and cutting off the frame a little bit for the structure.

Real World Situations

Drop safety test is something hard to predict as it relies on how the lab actually execute it and if the pistol randomly survived. Let's focus on how likely the changes on LCI and Mag Disc might happen.

For a long time it appears like CZ-USA had very limited influence to CZUB factory, even though they both under the same Colt CZ group nowadays. It appears like CZ-USA only received those alloy pistols from CZUB in batch, laser engrave them, and distribute to the nation. Besides influence, CZ-USA is also weak on execution, with very limited supply of spare parts and world's worst webstore of manufacturer. CZ-USA is indeed just a subdivision for distribution, customer service, marketing, etc. There's only very limited known cases that either CZ-USA started as a new project (e.g., 40B/RAMI), or CZUB determined to release a new model targeting US market specifically (e.g., 97B.) For the above necessary changes, how much CZ-USA could push CZUB to make them happen on design, manufacturing, assembly, and service wise?

I saw many people being optimal and believed that California is an important market that the manufacturers can't give up. Let's make some calculations:
  • from CZ website, in 2024H1, they made 43% of revenue from US (the rests from Czech, Canada, Europe, Africa, Latin America, etc.)
  • Handguns accounted for 58% of their sold units among all types of firearms. Let's roughly assume the revenue and margin between different types are basically the same.
  • CZ didn't disclose how many US revenue are from civilian market. However, not like Smith Wesson, Ruger, etc. that mostly on civilian, CZ has many military and law enforcement deals. It's roughly estimated like 60-70% of their US revenue from civilian. Let's say 70%.
  • California has roughly 10% of US population. Let's pretend CA has same density of pro-2A people like other states and simply use 10%.
Together, from Colt-CZ group perspective, handguns sale to CA civilian market would occupy 43% x 58% x 70% x 10% = 1.75% of their total revenue IF they could have all of their handguns for sale in CA. And that's all handgun models together; Shadow 2 is a few portion.

Surprise?

Conclusions

I tend to believe that, either Shadow 2 won't make its way to the roster, or probably CZ-USA would collaborate again with domestic gun shops (e.g., CZC, Dan Wesson) to make small batch of CA version Shadow 2 every year. In case of Dan Wesson that they owns, the shop has been short in hand for years; and for other independent shops, the mods would be charged. Either limited supply, or be more expensive than the current street price in US.

On the other hand, I believe that CZ has enough motivation to make their newer pistols (P-10 series, P-09 Nocturne, etc.) into CA roster as we all know that polymer gun is a good business.
 
claud said:
As a CZ enthusiast, I feel quite hard to believe that Shadow 2 would make into the roster. Here are my thoughts, first a technical analysis, and then real-world considerations. I was surprised discussions on these angles rarely happen on forums that I was browsing.

Technical Analysis

Drop Safety Tests

In case you don't know that, Shadow 2 (and compact version) is not drop safe. Among the roster's drop tests, on "the on muzzle, barrel vertical drop", at the moment muzzle touching ground, the firing pin will continue moves forward since there's no FPB preventing that, and strikes the primer if dropped from high enough.

Besides, if the test is not under safety on nor hammer down condition, there's chance that "the exposed hammer/rearmost point of the device or handgun drop" test would fail since hammer have chance to down upon touching the ground.

That's why Shadow 2 is strictly a competition pistol, but not designed for carry or service.

LCI

There are two potential, relatively easier ways to add a LCI.

i) add a small indicator on the top of slide, just after the barrel and ejection port, which requires cut off some slide and add 3 parts. This design ever appeared on CZ 97B before, but let's remember that CZ 97B has been discontinued for a couple of years. Such design also showed up on some online Shadow 2 parts diagrams showing as part #47, 48, and 49; however, afaik it never implemented in any 9mm CZ75 models.

ii) alternatively, create an "extended" extractor and use it as LCI, or add an extra thin sheet stacked with extractor as LCI. Either way need to modify extractor, and test reliabilities.

Magazine Disconnect
First of all, I never saw mag disc being implemented in any pistol in the CZ75 family, including other variants such as Tanfoglio, etc. I may be wrong, and if so, please point that out.

It's a very interesting topic to discuss how to make this happen. In CZ75 design, trigger brings trigger bar to push the sear directly releasing hammer, where trigger bar is the main component that surrounds magazine, while both trigger and sear cage components are too far away from mag. The feasible way might be blocking the trigger bar from moving while magazine is unloaded.

The trigger bar could be blocked by adding a tiny blocker piece at the front or the back of the magazine tunnel (some call it magwell but just avoid confusing.) This shall more likely be achieved on the back though, since i) any obstacle in front of mag tunnel may interfere with ammo, ii) the front of trigger bar has round shape therefore is not reliable to block; iii) the tunnel's front side is crowded with mag release, trigger bar spring and its huge screw.

Make it on the back is also not easy, it will need adding a blocker piece, a lift spring to make it blocking, and at least a pin to fix the piece and the spring, as well as
drilling a hole in frame to hold the pin, and cutting off the frame a little bit for the structure.

Real World Situations

Drop safety test is something hard to predict as it relies on how the lab actually execute it and if the pistol randomly survived. Let's focus on how likely the changes on LCI and Mag Disc might happen.

For a long time it appears like CZ-USA had very limited influence to CZUB factory, even though they both under the same Colt CZ group nowadays. It appears like CZ-USA only received those alloy pistols from CZUB in batch, laser engrave them, and distribute to the nation. Besides influence, CZ-USA is also weak on execution, with very limited supply of spare parts and world's worst webstore of manufacturer. CZ-USA is indeed just a subdivision for distribution, customer service, marketing, etc. There's only very limited known cases that either CZ-USA started as a new project (e.g., 40B/RAMI), or CZUB determined to release a new model targeting US market specifically (e.g., 97B.) For the above necessary changes, how much CZ-USA could push CZUB to make them happen on design, manufacturing, assembly, and service wise?

I saw many people being optimal and believed that California is an important market that the manufacturers can't give up. Let's make some calculations:
  • from CZ website, in 2024H1, they made 43% of revenue from US (the rests from Czech, Canada, Europe, Africa, Latin America, etc.)
  • Handguns accounted for 58% of their sold units among all types of firearms. Let's roughly assume the revenue and margin between different types are basically the same.
  • CZ didn't disclose how many US revenue are from civilian market. However, not like Smith Wesson, Ruger, etc. that mostly on civilian, CZ has many military and law enforcement deals. It's roughly estimated like 60-70% of their US revenue from civilian. Let's say 70%.
  • California has roughly 10% of US population. Let's pretend CA has same density of pro-2A people like other states and simply use 10%.
Together, from Colt-CZ group perspective, handguns sale to CA civilian market would occupy 43% x 58% x 70% x 10% = 1.75% of their total revenue IF they could have all of their handguns for sale in CA. And that's all handgun models together; Shadow 2 is a few portion.

Surprise?

Conclusions

I tend to believe that, either Shadow 2 won't make its way to the roster, or probably CZ-USA would collaborate again with domestic gun shops (e.g., CZC, Dan Wesson) to make small batch of CA version Shadow 2 every year. In case of Dan Wesson that they owns, the shop has been short in hand for years; and for other independent shops, the mods would be charged. Either limited supply, or be more expensive than the current street price in US.

On the other hand, I believe that CZ has enough motivation to make their newer pistols (P-10 series, P-09 Nocturne, etc.) into CA roster as we all know that polymer gun is a good business.
Click to expand...
Excellent write-up, thanks for spending the time to educate us. I’m a big CZ fan and I too don’t believe CZ has enough of a financial incentive to bring the S2 and S2C to California. I too hope we can see their polymer handgun offerings in this state.
 
That’s a great analysis. If they add a firing pin block to the S2 , it basically becomes an SP-01 Shadow. If they add a mag disco , as you described , it changes the geometry of the grip. With what you may spend converting it to normal , getting an off roster S2 might be worth it.


Because of my hand size, I would like to try the S2 before committing to a purchase. The SP-01 with mixed LOK grips is perfect for me.
 
I'm still praying the roster goes away before I die or move from this state.
All CZ pistols that I've ever had have ranged from good to great. The good ones just needed more breaking in and maybe a spring kit/tuning. I've never had a striker fired CZ though. P01, SP01 CZ75 compact (steel), 75PCR, CZ75B, CZ75BD, SP01 Shadow Target, 75 TacSport, TacSport Orange, Shadow 2 - all are really great designs IMO.
Magazines are not too expensive in the free states too, and the regular 75 version fits in the SP01 and original Shadow, just extends a bit in the smaller frame.
Free state guys love the S2. You can find them here, but pricey due to Ca upcharge as a PPT.
 
Last edited:
claud said:
As a CZ enthusiast, I feel quite hard to believe that Shadow 2 would make into the roster. Here are my thoughts, first a technical analysis, and then real-world considerations. I was surprised discussions on these angles rarely happen on forums that I was browsing.

Technical Analysis

Drop Safety Tests

In case you don't know that, Shadow 2 (and compact version) is not drop safe. Among the roster's drop tests, on "the on muzzle, barrel vertical drop", at the moment muzzle touching ground, the firing pin will continue moves forward since there's no FPB preventing that, and strikes the primer if dropped from high enough.

Besides, if the test is not under safety on nor hammer down condition, there's chance that "the exposed hammer/rearmost point of the device or handgun drop" test would fail since hammer have chance to down upon touching the ground.

That's why Shadow 2 is strictly a competition pistol, but not designed for carry or service.

LCI

There are two potential, relatively easier ways to add a LCI.

i) add a small indicator on the top of slide, just after the barrel and ejection port, which requires cut off some slide and add 3 parts. This design ever appeared on CZ 97B before, but let's remember that CZ 97B has been discontinued for a couple of years. Such design also showed up on some online Shadow 2 parts diagrams showing as part #47, 48, and 49; however, afaik it never implemented in any 9mm CZ75 models.

ii) alternatively, create an "extended" extractor and use it as LCI, or add an extra thin sheet stacked with extractor as LCI. Either way need to modify extractor, and test reliabilities.

Magazine Disconnect
First of all, I never saw mag disc being implemented in any pistol in the CZ75 family, including other variants such as Tanfoglio, etc. I may be wrong, and if so, please point that out.

It's a very interesting topic to discuss how to make this happen. In CZ75 design, trigger brings trigger bar to push the sear directly releasing hammer, where trigger bar is the main component that surrounds magazine, while both trigger and sear cage components are too far away from mag. The feasible way might be blocking the trigger bar from moving while magazine is unloaded.

The trigger bar could be blocked by adding a tiny blocker piece at the front or the back of the magazine tunnel (some call it magwell but just avoid confusing.) This shall more likely be achieved on the back though, since i) any obstacle in front of mag tunnel may interfere with ammo, ii) the front of trigger bar has round shape therefore is not reliable to block; iii) the tunnel's front side is crowded with mag release, trigger bar spring and its huge screw.

Make it on the back is also not easy, it will need adding a blocker piece, a lift spring to make it blocking, and at least a pin to fix the piece and the spring, as well as
drilling a hole in frame to hold the pin, and cutting off the frame a little bit for the structure.

Real World Situations

Drop safety test is something hard to predict as it relies on how the lab actually execute it and if the pistol randomly survived. Let's focus on how likely the changes on LCI and Mag Disc might happen.

For a long time it appears like CZ-USA had very limited influence to CZUB factory, even though they both under the same Colt CZ group nowadays. It appears like CZ-USA only received those alloy pistols from CZUB in batch, laser engrave them, and distribute to the nation. Besides influence, CZ-USA is also weak on execution, with very limited supply of spare parts and world's worst webstore of manufacturer. CZ-USA is indeed just a subdivision for distribution, customer service, marketing, etc. There's only very limited known cases that either CZ-USA started as a new project (e.g., 40B/RAMI), or CZUB determined to release a new model targeting US market specifically (e.g., 97B.) For the above necessary changes, how much CZ-USA could push CZUB to make them happen on design, manufacturing, assembly, and service wise?

I saw many people being optimal and believed that California is an important market that the manufacturers can't give up. Let's make some calculations:
  • from CZ website, in 2024H1, they made 43% of revenue from US (the rests from Czech, Canada, Europe, Africa, Latin America, etc.)
  • Handguns accounted for 58% of their sold units among all types of firearms. Let's roughly assume the revenue and margin between different types are basically the same.
  • CZ didn't disclose how many US revenue are from civilian market. However, not like Smith Wesson, Ruger, etc. that mostly on civilian, CZ has many military and law enforcement deals. It's roughly estimated like 60-70% of their US revenue from civilian. Let's say 70%.
  • California has roughly 10% of US population. Let's pretend CA has same density of pro-2A people like other states and simply use 10%.
Together, from Colt-CZ group perspective, handguns sale to CA civilian market would occupy 43% x 58% x 70% x 10% = 1.75% of their total revenue IF they could have all of their handguns for sale in CA. And that's all handgun models together; Shadow 2 is a few portion.

Surprise?

Conclusions

I tend to believe that, either Shadow 2 won't make its way to the roster, or probably CZ-USA would collaborate again with domestic gun shops (e.g., CZC, Dan Wesson) to make small batch of CA version Shadow 2 every year. In case of Dan Wesson that they owns, the shop has been short in hand for years; and for other independent shops, the mods would be charged. Either limited supply, or be more expensive than the current street price in US.

On the other hand, I believe that CZ has enough motivation to make their newer pistols (P-10 series, P-09 Nocturne, etc.) into CA roster as we all know that polymer gun is a good business.
Click to expand...
Thanks for the info. I just heard all CZ pistols are being taken off the roster. Not sure what’s going on
 
My local gun store posted this. If anyone has any more info please feel free to share. I’m worried I won’t even be able to get any CZ at all after this.
 

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