help me pick my second gun: Springfield Echelon 4c Comp vs HK VP9 A1-K

[tinypuck1188]

That being said, I’m carrying my G19 right now and my level of confidence in it is 10x compared to the p365. I shoot it SO much better. But yeah, usually so far the p365 ends up on the belt due to convenience

Girls say the same thing all the time. Only girls. No men I’ve ever met. Girls with no nut/s. Just girls. Men handle 365 on the daily.

 

[weaverftw]

Girls say the same thing all the time. Only girls. No men I’ve ever met. Girls with no nut/s. Just girls. Men handle 365 on the daily.

I can only pray and beg the lord that one day my peen will be as large as yours. Until then, I shoot the G19 better than the baby Sig (but I still love it)

I actually have a WC XL grip module coming in the mail and I think that’ll change my opinion tremendously

 

[JC2020]

OP, I vote for the HK. I have the VP9F, and I love it so much that I'm buying at least one more, plus the VP9K, and I hope to get the VP9CC, too. Eventually. I don't own the Echelon, but it is very dynamic and will allow you to change configurations.

However, what I've discovered about changing configurations, like you can with the p320 (I also have the Legion) and the p365 (I own the XL and XMacro), is that I generally only change until I find what I like, then shoot it as much as possible. If your goal is to play Lego with your handgun, then accessorize it, these firearms are very fun, with endless possibilities.

I prefer to spend my time, effort, and dollars on training and practice.

The VP9a1 is incredibly accurate and more solidly built than most other pistols, with years of testing before it was released. Surprisingly, my VP9F is more accurate in my hands than the X5 Legion right out of the box, with no modifications. Shooting groups of 4-6" at 25 yards is possible for me with the VP9, though I'm working on consistency. I never really managed that on the X5 Legion (never even within an 8" target), for some reason.

The HK barrel has a number of advantages compared to most other striker fired pistols. It is cold hammer forged, which improves durability and (according to some) accuracy/precision. It has a polygonal rifling instead of the more traditional land-and-groove rifling, which provides a better gas seal. This will increase velocity and prolong barrel life, from what I have read. I believe the chamber also has some differences, allowing for more consistent extraction/reliability as well, but I can't recall the details at the moment.

For me, I just enjoy shooting pistols. For fun at the range, almost anything ends up being fun. But for reliability, I prefer HK and also Glock. This especially comes into play if you shoot more than a few hundred rounds through the pistol every year. Or ever. at lower round counts, I think any major modern pistol people recommend will do.

I've only put about 900 rounds through the HK in the month I've had it, so I can't tell you from personal experience about long term reliability. But the accuracy has been fantastic. If you can easily carry a compact like the VP9A1K, I would choose that pistol without reservation.

 

[tomrkba]

OP, I vote for the HK. I have the VP9F, and I love it so much that I'm buying at least one more, plus the VP9K, and I hope to get the VP9CC, too. Eventually. I don't own the Echelon, but it is very dynamic and will allow you to change configurations.

However, what I've discovered about changing configurations, like you can with the p320 (I also have the Legion) and the p365 (I own the XL and XMacro), is that I generally only change until I find what I like, then shoot it as much as possible. If your goal is to play Lego with your handgun, then accessorize it, these firearms are very fun, with endless possibilities.

I prefer to spend my time, effort, and dollars on training and practice.

The VP9a1 is incredibly accurate and more solidly built than most other pistols, with years of testing before it was released. Surprisingly, my VP9F is more accurate in my hands than the X5 Legion right out of the box, with no modifications. Shooting groups of 4-6" at 25 yards is possible for me with the VP9, though I'm working on consistency. I never really managed that on the X5 Legion (never even within an 8" target), for some reason.

The HK barrel has a number of advantages compared to most other striker fired pistols. It is cold hammer forged, which improves durability and (according to some) accuracy/precision. It has a polygonal rifling instead of the more traditional land-and-groove rifling, which provides a better gas seal. This will increase velocity and prolong barrel life, from what I have read. I believe the chamber also has some differences, allowing for more consistent extraction/reliability as well, but I can't recall the details at the moment.

For me, I just enjoy shooting pistols. For fun at the range, almost anything ends up being fun. But for reliability, I prefer HK and also Glock. This especially comes into play if you shoot more than a few hundred rounds through the pistol every year. Or ever. at lower round counts, I think any major modern pistol people recommend will do.

I've only put about 900 rounds through the HK in the month I've had it, so I can't tell you from personal experience about long term reliability. But the accuracy has been fantastic. If you can easily carry a compact like the VP9A1K, I would choose that pistol without reservation.

I didn’t know the VP9 was so accurate. I will acquire one.

 

[Selfdef89]

I'm a new gun owner, got my first one a month ago (Sig P320 X5 Legion), thinking that it would enough for home defense and fun at the range. Next thing I know I took two separate 16 hour handgun courses, another 16 hour one for CCW coming this month, been dry fire practicing almost every day, obsessing as I discover everything about firearms, and now I have a list of a bunch of guns I want to eventually own (carry, shotgun, and rifle). I have no idea how I got here.

Cut story short, I think my next one will be something I can carry. On this realm, I am looking for those pistols that are concealable but still fun to shoot, with a 4 inch barrel, and shorter grip module.

I'm looking for the best thing I can get under $1500. In this range, I have narrowed to these 2 pistols, purposely not including the P365 as I want something different than a Sig for my second one (and I think the Echelon and HK here are better options for me anyway, not to mention they look amazing, the Echelon feature rich and optics ready, and the HK with outstanding build quality).

I have been searching for comparisons between these 2, and have not run into much.

Spam me with your thoughts please.

Also, if there is something else I should consider, please share.

Thanks in advance!

Without a doubt the SFA Echelon Comp, IMHO, its everything I want in a Glock, Optics ready, Ambidextrous slide lock/release and magazine release, flat face trigger w/ a smooth break and reset. *chefs kiss*

The Xmacro fits very well in the hands as well as optics ready and nice trigger, I have both as my EDC.

God bless, Good night!!!

 

[tomrkba]

Without a doubt the SFA Echelon Comp, IMHO, its everything I want in a Glock, Optics ready, Ambidextrous slide lock/release and magazine release, flat face trigger w/ a smooth break and reset. *chefs kiss*

The Xmacro fits very well in the hands as well as optics ready and nice trigger, I have both as my EDC.

God bless, Good night!!!

The XMacro is almost as big as the Glock 17. What are you getting that is different except for width? Capacity is still limited to 10 rounds.

 

[GunHoHulk]

When I first got my ccw I was jazzed about carrying a 4” 1911. I soon learned that a smaller gun is so much more convenient to carry and have gone through several pistols that I’ve had on my permit. After about 15?years being licensed the two that stay in my permit are my Glock 19 and M&P 340. My third slot has been filled by an LC9, G29, G33, and now a Hellcat Pro.

The M&P 340 is my go to as it conceals the best and keeps a low profile the best and the Hellcat Pro gets rotated in intermittently. The G19 is relegated to a backpack/car gun.

I feel like a lot of people underestimate the J-frame and similar revolvers but their concealability is hard to beat and I find I take mine with me in a lot of scenarios where you may end up leaving a bigger gun behind.

As with everything, what works for you may not work for me. And once you get your permit and start carrying you’ll find out what works for you.

 

[Selfdef89]

The XMacro is almost as big as the Glock 17. What are you getting that is different except for width? Capacity is still limited to 10 rounds.

View attachment 177783

Well, length wise I'd compare it closer to a g19 respectfully, the width/girth of the grip as well as the angel the grip feels alot better and more fitting to my sausage finger hands, the cut or curve between grip and trigger guard where the ones index finger would sit, I believe allows for a better feel and grasp, complimenting the width of the pistol. Just my honest opinion

 

[SIG4life]

Of the two choices, I would buy the Echelon 4.0c due to all the features! I still want one but I am afraid it is too similar to my G19 to justify right now. The VP9A1-K doesn’t wow me.. if the USP was still available now that has a legacy! (Almost got one as my first gun pre-covid, ended up with a P226 MK25 as when I handled it. It just was so much more natural in my hand, regretful now that they have fell off the roster)

 

[decius_mus]

The HK for sure. I've owned both the Echelon and a VP9A1F. I sold the Echelon because it ended up collecting dust after I bought the VP9.

Here's the thing though. The VP9 is a polymer framed striker fired 9mm blaster that costs 20-30% more than the other polymer framed duty pistols but doesn't do anything better than them on paper. All of the duty guns from the major brands (Echelon, M&P, PDP, Glocks) are all basically as reliable as each other, have similar manual of arms, and all have the same 10 round capacity limit in California. The main differences really come down to build quality / qc, ergonomic differences, mag quality, trigger feel, etc.

To me, HK's materials, finish, build quality, qc, and ergonomic design choices (including the paddle mag release) make it worth the premium. I also strangely shoot the VP9's more accurately than the other striker duty pistols. But I think that is more a function of ergonomics rather than some inherent german accuracy magic.

Ultimately I think you should ideally rent both guns at a range and see which one fits the best. But if you had to choose one sight unseen and you had the money for it, I would recommend the HK 10/10 times. But if you can't justify the premium, the Echelon is a fine choice.

 

[tomrkba]

Well, length wise I'd compare it closer to a g19 respectfully, the width/girth of the grip as well as the angel the grip feels alot better and more fitting to my sausage finger hands, the cut or curve between grip and trigger guard where the ones index finger would sit, I believe allows for a better feel and grasp, complimenting the width of the pistol. Just my honest opinion

Ok, so the primary attributes for you are the differences in fit. That makes sense since the market offers thousands of designs to choose from and not everyone is going to follow the correct Glock Way

 

[tomrkba]

Of the two choices, I would buy the Echelon 4.0c due to all the features! I still want one but I am afraid it is too similar to my G19 to justify right now. The VP9A1-K doesn’t wow me.. if the USP was still available now that has a legacy! (Almost got one as my first gun pre-covid, ended up with a P226 MK25 as when I handled it. It just was so much more natural in my hand, regretful now that they have fell off the roster)

Don't worry. If you buy two guns a year for the next 25 years, you'll have the start of a decent collection. Ask me how I know

Also, one poster in this thread said the VP9A1 is exceptionally accurate out of the box. If that is true, then it's worth the premium because accurizing another gun will cost $200-$500 (or even more from certain 1911 gunsmiths) depending upon the work. Sometimes, it's just dropping in a $200 Kart barrel, but many times more mods are needed to make the gun work properly.

 

[tomrkba]

When I first got my ccw I was jazzed about carrying a 4” 1911. I soon learned that a smaller gun is so much more convenient to carry and have gone through several pistols that I’ve had on my permit. After about 15?years being licensed the two that stay in my permit are my Glock 19 and M&P 340. My third slot has been filled by an LC9, G29, G33, and now a Hellcat Pro.

The M&P 340 is my go to as it conceals the best and keeps a low profile the best and the Hellcat Pro gets rotated in intermittently. The G19 is relegated to a backpack/car gun.

I feel like a lot of people underestimate the J-frame and similar revolvers but their concealability is hard to beat and I find I take mine with me in a lot of scenarios where you may end up leaving a bigger gun behind.

As with everything, what works for you may not work for me. And once you get your permit and start carrying you’ll find out what works for you.

Sounds like you're using my CA CCW gun rule: 1 small, 1 medium and 1 duty sized gun.

One need not "start carrying" after getting a permit. Carry around the house! One can keep the gun unloaded while getting used to it. I do recommend practicing carrying spare ammunition in the form of empty magazines or speed loaders with AZOOM Snap-Caps.

 

[Experimentalist]

have you held both in your hand? Think you should go to a LGS and get a feel for all the different options and see what best fits you. on paper specs are one thing but for a carry gun you'll want something thats tailored to you. Your hand size, carry style, etc. Your "best" is gonna be different from someone else's "best."

Some good advice here.

I've an H&K VP9 SK OR on my permit, and I very much like it. It is a quality product that has proven reliable. That said, the grip is different from the Glock 19 that is also on my permit, and the Glock 34 with which I compete. The Glocks enable a grip closer to the slide, and thus nearer to the axis of the barrel. This is a modest but notable advantage.

Just looking at photos of your two candidates, the Springfield would appear to allow that higher grip. Were I in similar circumstances that would sway me towards the Springfield, even though I greatly admire H&K products.

I'm not trying to sway you one way or the other. Instead I'm offering insights into one person's thoughts on the subject, with the hope of illuminating the many subtle qualities that influence one's preferences.

 

[thawolf]

Agree with all of them. Try it first. Here is a range i found that may be a bit of drive but they do rent guns (call to verify). Call them and ask and maybe go and try a few.
However, the goal is to carry all the times, and as other people said, the smaller ones are easier to hide and your going to be more likely to carry with you versus a big ass gun. At first the G17 was great for me but now a G19 and G43x are as big as i want to go without feeling like i will drop my pants at the pisser or have my side sag. My vote would be a 43x mos, easy to carry daily. Good luck.

markley's range

 

[haroldopsf]

hi folks, thanks for the inputs. After much thought and deliberation, I ended up choosing neither of this and got the Stacatto c4x after holding one in my hands and feeling the level of quality on that piece. My wife will kill me when she sees the charge. I am dead, I will die a slow and agonizing death.

 

[AaronV54]

wow, thank you so much for the detailed write up! I'm leaning heavily on the HK, cost is not an issue below the budget, so the argument for the Echelon "lots of features for the money" is not very meaning full to me. I will read that article in its entirety. Thank you so much.

One more thing I just want to make clear, since one other comment was "I see you keep your guns stock...", and you are mentioning about "next gun should be identical to what your carry is...". I'm not sure if I was clear, but I am a completely noob, green, just got my first gun a month ago (p320 x5 legion), never owned or even shot a gun before that. I have no idea how/why I became this obsessed and want to get more guns now, but its where I'm at (wife is very confused and thinking its weird). Just wanted to put out there, I'm totally new to this, I know nothing yet, I don't carry anything (yet, ccw application ongoing), and I don't know yet what mods or whatever accessories I can add to what, etc.

I truly appreciate all the info I am getting from this thread. Priceless.

It's your choice brother. You obviously want the HK and if you have the means, do it! you don't want to have buyers remorse.

 

[haroldopsf]

It's your choice brother. You obviously want the HK and if you have the means, do it! you don't want to have buyers remorse.

see my message above yours, I did a thing

 

[AaronV54]

see my message above yours, I did a thing

congrats!

 

[1911-CV]

Time to change the title of the thread...