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Being forced to shoot their ammo with one's own gun is a racket.
Review Hot Rods & Handguns
- Thread starter Wolkenflieger
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Uncharged? Not sure what you mean.
Nothing about this place is basic going rate. I don't normally have to buy range ammo, nor would I.
Last time I shot there, it was about .40 rd for 9mm and about $1 rd for 300 AAC. The company answer is they need to supply it for their insurance requirements. The range masters understand the tax though - be respectful buy a box of what you are shooting and bring your own to discretely reload.
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I can see the value in having a membership here if you want to take clients there or something, but I can’t imagine anyone who actually wants to train would use this place. For me, training is separate from leisure so I’d prefer a range that allows draws, fast shooting, movement, etc. Good ventilation is really the only “luxury” thing I look for. My range has a little lounge with a pool table and some nice leather couches, but I’m there to shoot not hang out so other than a quick free cup of coffee or popping open the laptop to send a few emails for work, I’m not trying to hang out at the range.
I might feel different once I’m at retirement age, which is sorta what this place seems geared towards. I’d be interested to see the age distribution of members.
smoothy8500
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A friend of mine in Texas was talking about a shooting "club" there that was even higher golf country club type affair-crazy expensive with something like tens-of thousand buy in plus fees, etc. They are clearly aiming for, and getting the top 1% income earners....
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Don’t look up Finish Line Auto Club…
I think Thermal needs a range now....
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If I could drive a few laps and then pit and walk over to shoot a couple stages while the brakes cool down I would be SO happy…
if you can make Carbon brakes glow, Max will let you park in one of his spaces there.
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…that “photo” looks like a screen shot from Perfect Dark lmao I’m beginning to like this place less and less. I get the sense that there’s a lot of expensive 1911s and lots of missing paper at 7 yards. Feels very LARPyTheir indoor range looks pretty standard to me. 25 yards, multi-lane, motorized paper targets.It doesn't appear to be "private" or "state of the art".
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Shoot sorry, “uncharged” . I ended up finding the answer , that their range ammo is wayyyy too expensive. F that
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G damn it, “up charged”
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Oh I'm sure it is. That's my least favorite thing about this range. The facility is gorgeous though.
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Oh I don't know. My range had no waitlist.
nakatomi
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Thanks @Wolkenflieger for sharing this, I heard of H&H but didn't know the details of their business model. There is something more interesting here than just whether the price is justified.
The real product is not range time, it is a controlled environment.
The high cost, ammo restrictions and structure are not arbitrary. They reduce variability. Fewer people more staff tighter rules and a curated space all minimize the biggest unknown at most public ranges which is the person in the next lane. I was at a shooting range that experienced suicides and uncontrolled mag dumping from noobs. Because I am not familiar with the folks at my range I find the safety concerns both valid and compelling.
It is not that members there are better shooters, H&H is engineered to be more predictable.
@Scubabugdiver pointed out it might attract people who otherwise would not try shooting. I agree. This gets more compelling when you connect it to something Matt Cubeiro said in his AMA thread. When asked what question people should be asking he did not point to legal strategy. He said the focus should be on preserving rights by introducing new people to firearms in a positive repeatable way. It is not about winning in court. It is about growing the base through experience.
Seen through that lens a place like this makes more sense.. traditional ranges can be intimidating or chaotic for first timers. Noise unclear norms and random behavior are not great onboarding conditions. This model flips that into something familiar w/ clean social structured and low friction.
Less like Knott’s Berry Farm w a rough crowd. More like Disneyland early entry where access is controlled and standards are enforced.
Less like Southwest Airlines with chaotic boarding and seat disputes. More like United where structure and expectations create a more orderly experience.
The more interesting question is whether pricing is the only way to achieve this kind of environment. Right now the model uses money as the filter. Pay more get less chaos. It works but it is blunt. If the goal is broader adoption you would want similar outcomes through culture not just cost.
There is something here.. not as a replacement for traditional ranges or training but as a different layer in the ecosystem. A controlled socially acceptable entry point. The real opportunity is figuring out how to replicate that environment without needing a country club price tag.
The real product is not range time, it is a controlled environment.
The high cost, ammo restrictions and structure are not arbitrary. They reduce variability. Fewer people more staff tighter rules and a curated space all minimize the biggest unknown at most public ranges which is the person in the next lane. I was at a shooting range that experienced suicides and uncontrolled mag dumping from noobs. Because I am not familiar with the folks at my range I find the safety concerns both valid and compelling.
It is not that members there are better shooters, H&H is engineered to be more predictable.
@Scubabugdiver pointed out it might attract people who otherwise would not try shooting. I agree. This gets more compelling when you connect it to something Matt Cubeiro said in his AMA thread. When asked what question people should be asking he did not point to legal strategy. He said the focus should be on preserving rights by introducing new people to firearms in a positive repeatable way. It is not about winning in court. It is about growing the base through experience.
Seen through that lens a place like this makes more sense.. traditional ranges can be intimidating or chaotic for first timers. Noise unclear norms and random behavior are not great onboarding conditions. This model flips that into something familiar w/ clean social structured and low friction.
Less like Knott’s Berry Farm w a rough crowd. More like Disneyland early entry where access is controlled and standards are enforced.
Less like Southwest Airlines with chaotic boarding and seat disputes. More like United where structure and expectations create a more orderly experience.
The more interesting question is whether pricing is the only way to achieve this kind of environment. Right now the model uses money as the filter. Pay more get less chaos. It works but it is blunt. If the goal is broader adoption you would want similar outcomes through culture not just cost.
There is something here.. not as a replacement for traditional ranges or training but as a different layer in the ecosystem. A controlled socially acceptable entry point. The real opportunity is figuring out how to replicate that environment without needing a country club price tag.
nakatomi
Well-known member
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Their indoor range looks pretty standard to me. 25 yards, multi-lane, motorized paper targets.
You’re evaluating it like a range which is missing the point IMHO. The hardware may be standard but that’s not what’s being sold. The value is in the environment. Controlled access, lower density, consistent behavior and most importantly a curated space.